Discussion SNES Online - Mod Discussion

18Phoenix Sep 7, 2019.

  1. Falo

    Falo GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    There is only 1 control.nacp and it it should be clear that it's in control.nca.
    Code:
                public long UserAccountSaveDataSize; //0x3080
                public long UserAccountSaveDataJournalSize; //0x3088
                public long TemporaryStorageSize; //0x3168
    8 Byte int64 values.
     
  2. 18Phoenix
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    18Phoenix GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    So somewhere here ? What must I change?

    upload_2019-9-21_17-47-34.
     
    Last edited by 18Phoenix, Sep 22, 2019
  3. Falo

    Falo GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    use a better hex editor:
    upload_2019-9-21_17-56-48.
     
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  4. RadMcFist

    RadMcFist Member

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    I tried SFA2 with all of the stock footer and it boots (with glitched graphics, of course) with the footers from Brawl Brothers, Super Mario World, Super Metroid, Breath of Fire, Demon's Crest and, as we already knew, Super Mario Kart. The rest of the footers don't boot. Also tried that other footer you posted and it also didn't boot.

    What I can tell you about the lclassics.titlesdb file from messing with it for over a year with the NES Online app and now with the SNES Online one is that if you make any big changes that it doesn't like, like taking a line out, the whole app doesn't even boot. It's got a temper. Sometimes it seems that if you look at it sideways, it blows a fuse and breaks the whole goddamned emulator. That said, I now realize as I type this that it's also kinda lenient in other aspects. It lets you reorder any of the parameters to whatever you want so if you're gonna try to add lines you don't have to worry about where to add them, and you can even let some of these blank (like title, date, publisher, etc).

    A lot of the entries in there are just to fill in the blanks when you press X for details (title, release date, etc) and don't really affect the way the emulator behaves. Although some of them do, they seem to be more general stuff and not game specific options like what we need here. For example, changing the number of players in Contra to 1 just makes it so the details screen says "Players: 1" but it doesn't affect the emulator at all and you can still connect two controllers and play with a friend. The "simultaneous" thing is for online sicne you can either spectate or play together. The volume setting does work (or at least it did on the NES, haven't tried here but that probably didn't change). armet_version and armet_threshold are for seizure protection and the like (they're set to off and 0 here). The NES version had "fade in" and "overscan" options that are gone on the SNES.

    To be frank, I don't think you'll have any success adding any lines here. Adding any lines will just make the whole thing break spectacularly, and even if it can be done it has to be the exact line with the exact words. Also, I'm pretty sure that all of the currently supported parameters by the emulator are there right now and present in every game, whether they use it or not. There's even an empty line in every game called "autoplay" that will probably be used in the future. In the NES game, some things were added in updates, maybe we'll see that too here. My guess is that if we don't see it now in the current lclassics, it can't be used and we have to wait until they update it.

    I don't know if I'm explaining myself correctly and I probably don't make much sense. In any case, tell me what to do and I'll check it out.

    Both failed to boot.

    After making a whole lclassics database just for tests allowing me to more easily run over 20 tests in one run, I also tested all of the previous patches in case I had made a mistake, but none of them worked anyway. I'll go through the thread and double check all of the previous tests we did just in case I missed something or made a stupid mistake, although I'm pretty sure that is not the case.



    Edit:
    I ran into a something strange that might interest you regarding the Super Tennis footer while running some tests on Fire Emblem Thracia 776's recent-ish good patch to see if it loaded correctly with different footers (the game loads, the intro shows correctly, but once the actual game text comes up only garbled crap comes out and then it crashes when the you're given control). The game boots with some footers and not with others, as usual, and one of the footers that works is Super Soccer's, but it won't boot at all with Super Tennis's even though the only difference between these two footers is, as you know, the 74 06 and 74 07 values. What the hell?

    Somewhere right now there's someone at Nintendo/NERD reading this thread and laughing his ass off, not unlike God looking at doctors and scientists.
     
    Last edited by RadMcFist, Sep 22, 2019
  5. DarkAkuma

    DarkAkuma Advanced Member

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    Random list. Sadly, it isn't much to work with. SMK has the longest footer, and thus the most bytes to work with (if length matters for official footers).

    I follow. The titlesdb sounds a lot like the SNESC .desktop file. A lot of cosmetic settings that exist purely for menus. It's understandable to see it fail if its expecting a entry in the titlesdb but fails to find it. We programmers don't always cover every case, like in this case using a default value in case of a lack of data. Id think adding a entry to a JSON node though, even if the entry is junk and unused, would be fine. It would just be ignored. You would mostly just have to be aware of not messing up the formatting.

    While some data is cosmetic, others are definitely not. Like the .sfrom path. If there is a .sda path option supported, it would be non-cosmetic. I'm not sure I'm ready to start having you poke around and test a billion things with that. But if you are curious you could always try adding a entry if you think you can do so without messing up the JSON formatting. Something like

    Code:
    "sda":"/titles/S-2006_e/2006_e.sda",
    Maybe not use "sda" as the name, in case that guess is correct. Unless you want to test that. But it would mostly just being to test that adding a properly formatted junk entry is properly ignored.

    I'm kind of running out of ideas.

    I guess... it would be helpful to know what can and can't be added/removed from stock footers. Like

    Code:
    47 02 00 00 BD 10 74 06 63 01 70 02 0C 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // try with SFA2. this is SMKs stock footer, which is known to at least boot it. but "6A 38" is removed and the byte count is lowered
    47 02 00 00 BD 10 74 06 63 01 6A 38 70 02 00 00 00 00 12 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // try with SMK. this has 2 null pairs added. or 1 null 4 byte param. will be interesting to know if it can handle null params properly by ignoring them.
    47 02 00 00 BD 10 74 06 63 01 6A 38 70 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 16 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // assuming the above boots, this is a test to see if 0x12 is the max length, since 0x12 is the max seen in official ID's.
    47 02 00 00 BD 10 74 06 63 00 6A 38 70 02 0F 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // try with SFA2. test is to see if changing the rom map bye to lorom still allows it to boot. could try with SMK too just to see if it's ignored.
    47 02 00 00 11 10 74 06 70 02 0A 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // try with SMW. just removed the volume byte since its useless.
    47 02 00 00 11 10 76 91 74 06 0A 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // try with SMW. removed the MaxInput byte since its useless.
    47 02 00 00 11 10 74 06 08 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // try with SMW. removed both of the previous. only worth testing if the other 2 still boot.
    47 02 00 00 BD 10 74 06 63 01 76 91 70 02 0E 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // SMK. replaced the unknown param6A with the volume param from SMW. basically its just removing the unknown param, but keeping the footer length the same.
    That's probably good for now. I'll see if I can come up with more based on the results of these.

    I suspect that the difference is in the preset id, and what it internally does/does not load for the game based on that preset id. Im not convinced that Preset ID's do nothing. They still do something beside validate a footer. Just because chips are getting detected for games that that id does not naturally associate with that chip, doesnt mean the rest of the preset ids functions (whatever they are) arent still going on.
     
    Last edited by DarkAkuma, Sep 22, 2019
  6. 18Phoenix
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    18Phoenix GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Ok, that's better indeed, thanks.

    I noticed that 66060288 = 63 * 1024 * 1024.
    I tried to enter values build the same way like 126 * 1024 * 1024 = 132120576‬.
    That's no accepted, "no guilt value"

    upload_2019-9-22_12-9-29.

    But 128 * 1024 * 1024 = 134217728‬ is ok:

    upload_2019-9-22_12-12-20.

    I don't know when a value is valid and when not.

    I think it's not enough to use the changed control.nacp via LayeredFS putting it to 01008D300C50C000\romfs, right ?
    I have to rebuild a new program nca and then a new NSP so that the changing is used, correct ?
    And do you think I can double all 3 values without risk ?
     
    Last edited by 18Phoenix, Sep 22, 2019
  7. 18Phoenix
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    18Phoenix GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Ok, I build a new NSP with increased UserAccountSaveDataSize and it works:

    save size doubled - Kopie.

    But unfortunately it crashes anyway :(
    I thought to increase this one value is enough. I'll double the other two aswell and check it out again.
     
    Last edited by 18Phoenix, Sep 22, 2019
  8. 18Phoenix
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    18Phoenix GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    No, I doubled all 3 values, the app works fine, but it crashes again during closing software :(

    maxresdefault.

    Any other suggestion ?
     
    Last edited by 18Phoenix, Sep 22, 2019
  9. RadMcFist

    RadMcFist Member

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    Tested all those footers. One didn't work, one made the game behave weirdly, the rest worked OK.

    Code:
    47 02 00 00 BD 10 74 06 63 01 70 02 0C 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // try with SFA2. this is SMKs stock footer, which is known to at least boot it. but "6A 38" is removed and the byte count is lowered
    47 02 00 00 BD 10 74 06 63 01 6A 38 70 02 00 00 00 00 12 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // try with SMK. this has 2 null pairs added. or 1 null 4 byte param. will be interesting to know if it can handle null params properly by ignoring them.
    47 02 00 00 BD 10 74 06 63 01 6A 38 70 02 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 16 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // assuming the above boots, this is a test to see if 0x12 is the max length, since 0x12 is the max seen in official ID's.
    47 02 00 00 11 10 74 06 70 02 0A 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // try with SMW. just removed the volume byte since its useless.
    47 02 00 00 11 10 76 91 74 06 0A 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // try with SMW. removed the MaxInput byte since its useless.
    47 02 00 00 11 10 74 06 08 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // try with SMW. removed both of the previous. only worth testing if the other 2 still boot.
    These ones worked without a hitch. The first one (SFA2) booted just like it does with the regular SMK footer.

    Code:
    47 02 00 00 BD 10 74 06 63 00 6A 38 70 02 0F 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // try with SFA2. test is to see if changing the rom map bye to lorom still allows it to boot. could try with SMK too just to see if it's ignored.
    This one didn't boot.

    Code:
    47 02 00 00 BD 10 74 06 63 01 76 91 70 02 0E 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // SMK. replaced the unknown param6A with the volume param from SMW. basically its just removing the unknown param, but keeping the footer length the same.
    This one added an intermittent line right above the split-screen line. It's easier to explain if you look at these two pictures next to each other:

    2019092220502202-05DC14F80A13996B94160CD375AFD506. 2019092220502203-05DC14F80A13996B94160CD375AFD506.

    See the difference? Well, it was changing between those two states really fast. So I guess that unknown parameter does something with the splitscreen.

    I haven't tested this yet, will do it next time for sure. Looking at the lclassics and how some stuff have been added to it over the last year or so, I'm pretty sure that if that line would work it would be added to every single game, whether they need it or not (of course it would be different if they don't need it). Like the armet thing, for example. None of the current games need it, but it's still there. When a game that needs it gets released, it will be set to "on" on that game alone.

    All of this makes sense. You're right that Preset IDs must do something. Maybe I should experiment a bit more with them on some of the games I've added. Any ideas?
     
    Last edited by RadMcFist, Sep 23, 2019
  10. DarkAkuma

    DarkAkuma Advanced Member

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    Good to know that value isnt required by the SMK ID for it to boot other games.

    Kind of interesting. On SNESC I use LoROM for SFA2. On WiiU it was released before the ROM Map byte was added. On 3DS it used a HiROM map byte. I concluded that it was a typo on 3DS, or at best an exception and that LoROM was correct for SNESC/WiiU.

    I wonder if thats wrong now, and the fact that it... and I guess Star Ocean boot with LoROM are the exception.

    For Switch, I wonder if that means that the SMK ID requires the HiROM map byte.

    Weird. I had to download the images and switch between them rapidly to see it. That param is used with Brawl Brothers too. Ive never played that. Does that do splitscreen at times?

    From that, conclusions are:

    0x12 is not the footer size limit.
    PresetID's do not require the footer size from their stock game.
    Volume and MaxInput params can be removed.
    And really... its not all about "footers from stock games". Its Preset IDs. Some preset IDs may require some params for their stock footer, for that stock game. But thats it. In the future i can just worry about making a custom footer using a stock game ID. Though research may still need to be done on what stock preset id require what params. Like SuperFX game ids probably require 65 0C for example.

    Futher, I guess it means that my idea that the param 44 inclusions failed because the footers exceeded the stock footers length, is wrong. Param 44 isnt working for some other reason. Either it's disabled, even though it exists in code (like how SNESC sfrom support is disabled), or I somehow got the format wrong. I doubt the latter though.

    Actually. now that I think about it, the code Falo posted for the SNESC .sfrom support had the param44 getting checked at all being tied to the SDD1 games id's. That could be the case for the new .sfrom format code. So even if SFA2 boots with another ID, it wont check param 44 to do its graphics correctly. I should have thought of that sooner! I guess I'd expect param 44 to be ignored if that was the case though. Not cause it to fail to boot at all. Thats weird, and I don't think matches the code.

    Have any, ANY non-stock game id's worked at all? I know enough failed, but I guess im not absolutely certain that all fail.
     
    Last edited by DarkAkuma, Sep 23, 2019
  11. RadMcFist

    RadMcFist Member

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    Interesting stuff, even if most of it goes way over my hear XD' The LoRom and HiRom part is particularly interesting and confusing. There are a couple of super standard games that fail to load for me for no discernible reason (to me) that have no special chips, are not expanded roms, not hi roms. I was going to try with a footer other than the Mario Kart one since MK is the only stock HiRom game (right?). Any recommendations here?

    Brawl Brothers doesn't have splitscreen. It's a really by-the-numbers game that doesn't stand out in any way and being the only beat 'em up with splitscreen would have made it a bit more memorable. Guess I'll change that parameter and have a go at it some time.

    No non-stock ID has worked for me or, judging by what little I've seen posted around here, for anyone else. Are there any in articular that you're interested in trying? In combination with what footer? I'll mess around with some of the games I've added so far but should I do it with the Mario Kart footer, the one I've used the most since it seems to be the one that boots more stuff, or Mario World which is one I've seen other people use with success?
     
    Last edited by RadMcFist, Sep 23, 2019
  12. DarkAkuma

    DarkAkuma Advanced Member

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    From your tests, this SMW footer shows that all thats needed is param74. So I don't think anything else from the SMK footer besides the preset ID and maybe rom map param would be required for other games to boot.

    Code:
    47 02 00 00 11 10 74 06 08 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // minimal SMW footer
    So a minimal SMK footer would be

    Code:
    47 02 00 00 BD 10 74 06 63 01 0A 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // minimal SMK footer
    From what I can tell, that would boot SMK. So editing it from there by changing out the preset ID should be reliable. The only difference between that in the minimal SMW footer are the Preset ID and the rom map byte. So trying the minimal SMW footer with lorom games, and minimal SMK footer with hirom games should be fine for testing other preset ID's in there.

    As for interesting PresetID's... hmm.

    0x1016 is popular for enabling high res mode in games not officially release on VCs/CCs. Officially that is for Mario no Super Picross, but is popular to use with SD3 too.
    0x10EF is for Super Star Wars: Return of the Jedi, but is popular to fix audio issues.

    These are probably good to test because they have simply been the most common to be used with multiple games.

    Actually. Here are probably my final 2 SFA2 patches to test.

    SFA2 Test11
    SFA2 Test12

    These are going back to using SFA2 E-NTSC's preset ID which was tested before. But what is added now that waent before is the rom map byte set to hirom. Going over my notes, it seems we actually didn't try that before...

    Beyond that for testing, not a lot of ID's stand out in particular. Maybe 0x1115. That's for "Kyūyaku Megami Tensei: Megami Tensei I・II", but it's an odd ID that I haven't mentioned to a lot of people. It behaved like a special chip id on SNESC, but as I understand its not a special chip game. In fact its only 1 of 2 ID that will even boot Dungeon Master on the SNESC. Not really sure what I'd expect from it from a test, or what a result would mean. Just mentioning it because its an interesting ID.

    Really though, you should probably mostly just test what you feel like. I'd be happy to learn that ANY ID that doesnt belong to a stock game works, and find that productive and useful at this point.
     
  13. 18Phoenix
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    18Phoenix GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    I found issues in the following games:

    PowerDrive
    First some glitchy logo screens have been disturbing. I used the "6803 fix" like with SmashTennis and they were fine.
    But there's still an error in the name-/password-entry, the letter-wheel for choosing is invisible:

    PowerDrive 1. PowerDrive 2.

    WWF WrestleMania - The Arcade Game
    The ingame-graphics are shifted. I tried 6803 fix and 6300-6303, always the same:

    WWF WrestleMania - The Arcade Game 1. WWF WrestleMania - The Arcade Game 2.

    Top Gear 3000
    Seems to be a special emulation problem, crashes at the start of the ingame.
     
    Last edited by 18Phoenix, Sep 23, 2019
  14. DarkAkuma

    DarkAkuma Advanced Member

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    Reminds me of the Aliens vs Predator glitch on SNESC. Sluffy made patch for that, so if its the same issue its likely not something that can be fixed by using another ID or different params.

    If you want to though, try adding param "6A 38" and ticking up the length byte by +0x02.

    Or if you would prefer, just try these footers.

    Code:
    47 02 00 00 11 10 74 06 68 03 6A 38 0C 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // SMW Preset ID
    47 02 00 00 BD 10 74 06 68 03 6A 38 0C 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // SMK Preset ID
    I only did a quick look, and that game seems to be a PAL game. So I'd expect issues regardless. And on the compatibility list its listed as "in game issues". So there's likely not a fix for it currently.

    param 63 is ROM map... so it shouldn't effect that. Theres no listed compatibility issue for the game. Again, I'd suggest the 6A param.

    This game uses the DSP-4 chip, and either doesn't boot or plays with issues on most emus. For canoe its just not supported.
     
    Last edited by DarkAkuma, Sep 23, 2019
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  15. 18Phoenix
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    18Phoenix GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Thanks for your help :D
    I tried both roms with this footer:
    47 02 00 00 11 10 74 06 68 03 6A 38 0C 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // SMW Preset ID

    No success:
    PowerDrive has become worse:
    PowerDrive 3.

    And again no change for WWF WrestleMania - The Arcade Game.

    About what I've read there's no chance for TopGear3000, yes.
     
    Last edited by 18Phoenix, Sep 23, 2019
  16. DarkAkuma

    DarkAkuma Advanced Member

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    Yea. It would have been luck if it fixed the issues. Just thought it might be worth a try since that param seems to effect similar things.

    "50 04 00 00 1E 00 00 00" from the Joe and Mac 2 footer "could" help too. Maybe not as is, but as the code Falo posted shows theres a lot of bit flags checked in that value, and any one of those could specifically be made to address such issues.

    Maybe some day ill get around to looking into the Power Drive issue, and sluffys AvP patch. See if its the same issue and I can make a patch for it. I did start learning SNES ASM hacking, but I don't think I'm quite there yet.
     
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  17. RadMcFist

    RadMcFist Member

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    SFA2 failed to boot after applying either of the patches. I'll run a bunch of tests with IDs these next few days and let you know what comes up. Sadly, setting up this tests takes more time that I wish it did even if I've got a pretty streamlined process by now, specially so since I want to make sure I'm not making stupid mistakes that mess up the results. I also still want to run through the whole thread again in order to double check some stuff.

    (As an unrelated side note I was reminded of after you mentioned the game, the unmodified rom of Kyūyaku Megami Tensei boots fine with the SMK footer but fails to work after applying the translation patch).

    Sorry that we haven't had the success we all expected so far. Hopefully you at least learn something with all of this and with the tests still left to run. There's also the hope that the next batch of official games includes something that can illuminate you further. Unfortunately, chances of either SFA2 or Star Ocean coming out officially are slim, specially with that SO remake coming out soon.

    You should know that this whole thing has helped us run some games a lot better. Rudra no Hihou, just to mention one, didn't even boot for me in the beginning and now I not only have it running with the English translation but at the correct resolution to boot. So thanks for that (and for all the SNES mini stuff, of course)!

    Man, my advice is that as a general rule with these things, you wanna stay clear of European roms. They're nothing but trouble. Even if you get them running, they'll still run like crap so you'll have a lot better and easier time just going for the NTSC version whenever possible (which is pretty much every case except Terranigma and even then you should patch it for 60Hz). I gotta say it's kinda funny that Europeans had to suffer through the 50 Hz hell for years and now that you guys are finally saved from that pain for good, you go through the trouble to go back in? XD
     
    Last edited by RadMcFist, Sep 24, 2019
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  18. 18Phoenix
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    18Phoenix GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    What do you mean with that, replace this section in the MK footer ?
    Like this : 47 02 00 00 BD 10 68 03 63 01 50 04 00 00 1E 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 ???

    Btw I patched PowerDrive to NTSC. It works, but with the same result.
    And the PowerDrive letter-selections looks normaly like this:
    Power Drive (E) (M5) 000. "3D" scrolling texture


    Other thing: translated roms not working
    A lot japanese roms work fine, but most of the translated ones don't.
    Couldn't that be fixed relativ easily somehow ? That would be soooooo great.
    Example: Mickey to Donald - Magical Adventure 3 (J)
    That's from Capcom, all their roms work fine, even this in original version.
    But the translated one doesn't start at all :(
    Often they made a little intro/pic to present the translation before the normal rom starts. Is that mostly the reason for not even starting ?
     
    Last edited by 18Phoenix, Sep 24, 2019
  19. DarkAkuma

    DarkAkuma Advanced Member

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    No. That wouldn't be how to edit it. Using the SMK footer it would be like this.

    Code:
    47 02 00 00 BD 10 74 06 63 01 6A 38 70 02 50 04 00 00 1E 00 00 00 16 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // just adding the J&M footer bytes in question
    47 02 00 00 BD 10 74 06 63 01 50 04 00 00 1E 00 00 00 12 00 00 00 43 61 6E 31 // removing the unnecessary bytes like you tried
    As far as translations not working. I'm not well versed in canoe compatibility myself, as I spent alll my efforts on the .sfrom format, preset id finding, and official patch dumping. But as far as I know, SNESC did not have many problems with translation patches outside of those that expanded the ROM to ExHiROM. This compatibility list may help in some cases, as the patches in the Hacks and Translations tab have been vetted to work. Though a patch for that isn't listed.

    Due to the limited selection of usable preset ids with the switch canoe, i think these quirks and boot issues are going to be more common. Perhaps if we can figure out some of these params it can help alleviate the issue, but until then be prepared for some trial and error, and maybe still not having much for results.
     
  20. Robin64

    Robin64 Member

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    Someone please try a stock Alien³ and see if the cursor shows on the password entry screen or not.

    Also a stock Bust-a-Move and see if bubbles begin to glitch as the level descends. You may need to play for a few levels to really see this.



    Also, Magical Quest 3's translation (this one) works fine on the SNES Mini with a PID of 0000, so it seems odd that the Switch's app wouldn't run it.
     
    Last edited by Robin64, Sep 24, 2019
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