Gaming Serious OoT ghosting problem

[phantastic91]

<!--quoteo(post=3770220:date=Jul 12 2011, 12:53 PM:name=Pong20302000)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pong20302000 @ Jul 12 2011, 12:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3770220"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=3770140:date=Jul 12 2011, 12:43 PM:name=phantastic91)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phantastic91 @ Jul 12 2011, 12:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3770140"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=3770132:date=Jul 12 2011, 11:39 AM:name=Pong20302000)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pong20302000 @ Jul 12 2011, 11:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3770132"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=3770095:date=Jul 12 2011, 12:06 PM:name=phantastic91)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phantastic91 @ Jul 12 2011, 12:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3770095"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=3770091:date=Jul 12 2011, 11:03 AM:name=Pong20302000)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pong20302000 @ Jul 12 2011, 11:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3770091"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=3770080:date=Jul 12 2011, 11:52 AM:name=phantastic91)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phantastic91 @ Jul 12 2011, 11:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3770080"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=3770077:date=Jul 12 2011, 10:50 AM:name=heartgold)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(heartgold @ Jul 12 2011, 10:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3770077"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=3770068:date=Jul 12 2011, 11:42 AM:name=phantastic91)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phantastic91 @ Jul 12 2011, 11:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3770068"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=3770061:date=Jul 12 2011, 10:39 AM:name=heartgold)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(heartgold @ Jul 12 2011, 10:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3770061"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=3769979:date=Jul 12 2011, 10:01 AM:name=phantastic91)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(phantastic91 @ Jul 12 2011, 10:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3769979"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->that's interesting. can you rewatch the super mario bros 3ds trailer and can you tell me if you see the piano keys/notes have ghosting? because it is very bright and placed on a dark background and it caused awfully bad ghosting for me. the gears scene in the trailer should have them too. thanks<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It seems good to me, no ghosting effect on that trailer/part. The only game I've ever experienced ghosting with was SW:C, Street fighter not a single ghosting sighted.
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i find that....impossible O_O. how can your eyes overcome the limitation of the parallex barrier!

when im not lazy im going to call nintendo service since they told me to call in to talk more about it.....ill report to this site on what they say. im 10000000000000% confident that ghosting is a problem on the system.
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I've just played that trailer five times, I don't see any ghosting and I know it exists as I've seen it in another game.
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ok i trust you...thats really really interesting thing. just in case again (cause im that stubborn) you checked the piano keys right where the keys where super white and the back was dark purpleish?

interesting...but still you see ghosting in other games. dont know why you dont get it during that scene. someone else on this page has seen it too. i trust you though

edit: i just watched the trailer and i paused at the piano scene. one way i can tell if it's truly ghosting is by pausing and then closing one eye. one eye should see double images while the other should see (dont know if this is always the case) a clear image. i pauses at the piano scene and i saw double images in my left eye and a clear image on the right. are we looking at the same trailer or is 3ds screens all made differently O_O
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maybe you should get a vision test
may not be that you have a bad eye or something but some people develop astigmatism which needs to be corrected (i developed it early this year and im 21)
i have a slight astigmatism in my left eye but my contact lens correct it and also correct my vision
like a dam hawk now!
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please dont make it seem like something is wrong with my eyes. and i got a vision test recently thank you very much. what does astigmatism have to do with anything? i wear contacts which corrects it anyways. its not just me who has ghosting problem and alot of people have it. google it and lots of people have it as well.
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if you have astigmatism normal contacts wont correct it
only astigmatism contacts will

alot of people have vision problems but dont know it
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my contacts correct astigmatism. and this has nothing to do with it. if i remember, ign made a joke about someone not being able to see 3d because he had astigmatism and i fell for it. where are you getting that astigmatism affects 3d because that's what it seems like your implying.

you even stated this yourself:
"unless there is a black background then there can be a minimal ghost but thats about it"

maybe you should get your eyes checked too >.>
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"my contacts correct astigmatism" so you clearly have astigmatism.
astigmatism affect vision and can change quite quickly so worth getting checked if it has changed
astigmatism is different to being long or short sighted so both have to be corrected. and if you vision is piss poor in one eye compared to the other then you will see ghosting lol

yea a large black background will cause ghosts
ive never had it occur while in a game tho, just when i press home button and its zooms back to black

i get my vision checked every few months because of the astigmatism

your clearly a stress headed nut if your panicking this bad

if you get contacts lenses then eye tests are free so why not go get checked

<!--quoteo(post=3770187:date=Jul 12 2011, 01:21 PM:name=Youkai)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Youkai @ Jul 12 2011, 01:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=3770187"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well i think i play the wrong games ... never noticed any ghosting ... I am not even sure what this is supposed to be oO

I wear glasses while playing but even without them (i have astigmatism 140° !! oO) i still have no problem at all ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
astigmatism with glasses do not need correction because the glasses arnt on the eye


astigmatism is known to sometimes affect viewing 3D
use google
heres one link
<a href="http://www.connectmidmichigan.com/news/story.aspx?id=253449" target="_blank">sauce</a>
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oh my goodness. First you should get your eyes checked buddy since you have stated yourself that you see ghosting in dark areas. secondly what a weak source. Where does it mention astigmatism or are you relating vision problem to astigmatism. the article seems to be saying why 3d DOESN"T WORK for people or side effects mainly focusing on headaches, not why ghosting happens. sure vision issues may be a factor i don't know but your argument is weak.
i dont know if your trying to help me but your insistence that there is something wrong with my eyes overblown. my eyes aren't that bad and if that is the cause for ghosting then 3d on the 3ds just plain sucks because lots of people dont have perfect vision.

my main argument is just how 3d doesn't work properly with dark backgrounds with bright objects in front (high contrasts) and sooooooooo many people have stated the exact same thing. heck google the issue and most draw the same conclusions. ill repeat that even you have stated that dark background gives minimal ghosting. So how are you even turning this into my eye problem. i dont know about you, but i hate it when people talk about my health like this. I can show people around me the ghosting and they see exactly the same ghosting as i do.

"your clearly a stress headed nut if your panicking this bad"

uhh no. it sounds like your saying "I got the solution! your eyes are the problem!" even though you have similar problems with the menu.


"yea a large black background will cause ghosts
ive never had it occur while in a game tho, just when i press home button and its zooms back to black "

just cause you dont notice it doesn't mean it's not there. if it happens in the menu it can most likely happen in game. your slider could have easily made it less noticeable.


edit: so far 40% of people said yes on this thread. already thats alot (although small sample). 3d is such a flawed technology regardless of all the reasons and assuming everything you said is right.

here's some links with the exact same problem pointing to high contrast:
<a href="http://3dsforums.com/nintendo-3ds-3/ghost-images-high-contrast-problem-11853/" target="_blank">http://3dsforums.com/nintendo-3ds-3/ghost-...-problem-11853/</a>
<a href="http://3dsforums.com/nintendo-3ds-3/anyone-else-having-triple-vision-problems-14945/" target="_blank">http://3dsforums.com/nintendo-3ds-3/anyone...problems-14945/</a>
<a href="http://techforums.nintendo.com/message/31017" target="_blank">http://techforums.nintendo.com/message/31017</a>
<a href="http://forums.techarena.in/video-games/1401280.htm" target="_blank">http://forums.techarena.in/video-games/1401280.htm</a>
<a href="http://www.gamespot.com/3ds/action/the-legend-of-zelda-3d/show_msgs.php?pid=997842&topic_id=m-1-59503527" target="_blank">http://www.gamespot.com/3ds/action/the-leg...id=m-1-59503527</a>
<a href="http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=156583" target="_blank">http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=156583</a>
<a href="http://www.nintendolife.com/forums/3ds/ghosting?start=20" target="_blank">http://www.nintendolife.com/forums/3ds/ghosting?start=20</a>
<a href="http://www.mtbs3d.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12391&Itemid=77&limitstart=2" target="_blank">http://www.mtbs3d.com/index.php?option=com...mp;limitstart=2</a>
<a href="http://boards.ign.com/nintendo_3ds_lobby/b25212/203310379/p1/?25" target="_blank">http://boards.ign.com/nintendo_3ds_lobby/b...03310379/p1/?25</a>

this link is special becauseI can relate a bit ^.^
<a href="http://www.3dsbuzz.com/3ds-forum/nintendo-3ds-hardware-10/zelda-reason-i-hate-my-3ds-3286/" target="_blank">http://www.3dsbuzz.com/3ds-forum/nintendo-...te-my-3ds-3286/</a>

 

[phantastic91]

I'm an optical technician, and Optician magazine reported earlier this year on various reasons even tiny eye problems will affect your 3d viewing.
I think if one eye has a marginally different prescription than the other, you will get a stronger image on one side, hence ghosting- you wouldn't get this on cinematic 3d as the 3d glasses are putting the effort in........

So even if i wear perfect contacts...i will still get ghosting because of different perscriptions. this makes sense until i show my ghosting problem to others who have good eyes and they see the exact same ghosting.

 

[FIX94]

I don't have this ghosting problem normally, only if I'm really tired.

 

[linuxGuru]

I only ever see ghosting when exiting an area.

 

[ferofax]

I wear glasses, have astigmatism, and am farsighted which sucks, because my eyes only have clarity up to a few meters in front, but can't focus that near since i'm farsighted. so i'm practically blind without prescription glasses (i see moving smudges of colors, that's it). X(

however, i only experience ghosting when my eyes are tired, and when bright objects are next to dark objects/backgrounds. i think somebody explained it about really bright pixels lighting up dark pixels next to them, so instead of one eye seeing dark pixels, they see ghosting. thinking about it, it sounds logical enough.

so yes, apparently the 3DS uses imperfect technology, but it does what it's supposed to do, which is glassless stereoscopic 3D. i'm good enough with that. hopefully, ghosting and crap battery life will make them consider an XL version, with better parallax barriers to prevent light spilling onto other pixels, and anti-glare top screen. and more battery life. and more speaker volume. and more stuff. and why'd they remove Photo Clock?!?! it was free on my DSiXL...

but i digress.

EDIT: and yeah, farsightedness makes me unable to focus my eyes to see popout effects, so those appear double to me, but i don't think that's ghosting related. i figure people who are nearsighted will have trouble seeing depth in 3D, which will make them opt for more popout effects.

 

[Zarxrax]

I get the ghosting against dark backgrounds too. What I have noticed is that the ghosting comes from only ONE of the 2 parallax screens (sorry if im getting my terminology mixed up here).

What I mean is, if I close my left eye, I see a perfectly clean image. But if I close my right eye, then I see a ghosted image with my left eye. Shifting the position of the 3ds around can reduce or enhance the strength of the ghosting, but I can't make it disappear.

 

[Spidey_BR]

I think it's a glitch, but when I got the first heart container, from Gohma, there was definitely TWO hearts spinning around Link's head. They seemed out of sync too. While I were removing the 3D effect, they were converging, and syncing. I tried REALLY hard to see that heart container in my face, but there were two distinguishable hearts, and seemed out of sync, I couldn't trick my eyes into the 3D effect.

That was a once in a gameplay (the game arrived today, I just finished Dodongo's cavern, spoiled my save dying to that 45s time limit on Death Mountain top chamber) thing, but it scared me to hell. I've seen ghosting too, but it's 4am here, I blame it on my tired eyes and my oily glasses. Time to sleep.

 

[videogamefanatic]

That's strange. I don't have OOT, but Rayman 3d has a very strange ghosting issue, and it's especially visible when the starting a level/respawning, and exiting a closed area into an open area and vice-versa. Sometimes if the cameras are real close to a wall it
s pretty bad.

 

[lex luthor]

I think that varies from individual to individual. The same happened in a thread I made about better quality in ds games after updating. Some people saw a change and others not.

 

[Game2590]

I found i was getting a fair bit of ghosting at first, after a lot of fiddling about i found the best place to hold it and also only have the slider set somewhere between off and half way, I still get ghosting when against black backgrounds and in a few other places but luckily it's not too bad.

 

[ClassicGOD]

Every single one of current 3D technologies has ghosting (aka crosstalk). This is a fact that most of 3D early adopters learn the hard way. When you get your first 3D device and you spend more and more (more then 2hours once a month like in cinema) time with it you start notice imperfections in that thing you payed hard cash for. Not everyone notices the ghosting even if it's there but once you start noticing it there's no way back (and I can assure you if you give it too much attention you will start noticing it in cinemas too - it is there) but you can learn to ignore it. Theres no way around it - LCD screens can block only 80-90% of the light (and parallax barrier on 3DS and shutter glasses are LCD screens), polarized technology is even worse in this aspect) so there always will be some crosstalk.

If you hold your 3DS in the sweet spot the crosstalk is OK - not as low as Panasonic 3D plasmas in 24p 3D mode but not as high as some other 3DTVs on the market. Theres nothing wrong with your 3DSes, you're just more observant than other 3DS users

PS. Crosstalk also depends on lighting conditions - you will notice more crosstalk playing in a dark room with screen backlight set to 5.

 

[phantastic91]

Every single one of current 3D technologies has ghosting (aka crosstalk). This is a fact that most of 3D early adopters learn the hard way. When you get your first 3D device and you spend more and more (more then 2hours once a month like in cinema) time with it you start notice imperfections in that thing you payed hard cash for. Not everyone notices the ghosting even if it's there but once you start noticing it there's no way back (and I can assure you if you give it too much attention you will start noticing it in cinemas too - it is there) but you can learn to ignore it. Theres no way around it - LCD screens can block only 80-90% of the light (and parallax barrier on 3DS and shutter glasses are LCD screens), polarized technology is even worse in this aspect) so there always will be some crosstalk.

If you hold your 3DS in the sweet spot the crosstalk is OK - not as low as Panasonic 3D plasmas in 24p 3D mode but not as high as some other 3DTVs on the market. Theres nothing wrong with your 3DSes, you're just more observant than other 3DS users

PS. Crosstalk also depends on lighting conditions - you will notice more crosstalk playing in a dark room with screen backlight set to 5.

when i did my research last year when buying my 3dtv it seems that lcd tvs have the worse ghosting. DLP does 3d the best with little to no ghosting and then plasma is seccond best. i have never seen ghosting in theaters but it could be there. since alot of theaters uses dlp technology, there should be little to no ghosting at all.

3dtvs and even lcds are much better now with even less ghosting the newer the tv models gets. I don't know if the lcd ghosting issues of 3dtvs are the same for the 3ds. but compared with my plasma, the 3ds ghosting is much worse. and seeing how the 3ds came out in 2011, thats pretty dissapointing (but i guess auto-stereoscopic display makes up for it)

 

[ClassicGOD]

when i did my research last year when buying my 3dtv it seems that lcd tvs have the worse ghosting. DLP does 3d the best with little to no ghosting and then plasma is seccond best. i have never seen ghosting in theaters but it could be there. since alot of theaters uses dlp technology, there should be little to no ghosting at all.It is there because no matter how fast the display technology gets LCD shutter glasses are unable to block 100% of the light. Panasonic eliminated almost all ghosting by blocking two eyes while the picture on the TV changes so theres no ghosting caused by display reaction time - its practically down to DLP levels of ghosting (only light that manages to get thru closed shutter glasses is causing the ghosting).

QUOTE(phantastic91 @ Jul 14 2011, 12:01 PM) 3dtvs and even lcds are much better now with even less ghosting the newer the tv models gets. I don't know if the lcd ghosting issues of 3dtvs are the same for the 3ds. but compared with my plasma, the 3ds ghosting is much worse. and seeing how the 3ds came out in 2011, thats pretty dissapointing (but i guess auto-stereoscopic display makes up for it)

The problem with 3DS is that there is only one sweet spot when the ghosting is minimal and it's different for everyone. You have to look at the display perfectly perpendicularly and the distance is dependent on the distance between your eyes. When you're 100% in the sweet spot ghosting on the 3DS is comparable to the newer LCD panels so it's not bad but you're right that it's no match for plasma (I own Panasonic 3D Plasma myself).

 

[Spidey_BR]

Ghosting in the 3DS is not like ghosting in normal tvs. It's not a "trail" of something that is moving, it's actually a ghost, a double or triple image. In Legend of Zelda, there are several places, mainly high contrast scenes, where you can CLEARLY see triple images.

I don't think it has anything to do with the 3D screen tecnology, but with the 3d image rendering engine used in software.