Recommended Electron Microscopes for 3DS CPU Decapping (up to $10k)?

Discussion in '3DS - Flashcards & Custom Firmwares' started by Lastly, Sep 5, 2014.

  1. Lastly
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    Lastly Honorable UltimateAdmiin - Highest Rank

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    Actually my learning institute is buying it. I'm just a proxy -- to some extent. My professor has recently asked me to go buy a Electron Microscope for the lab using the campus' budget of $10,000. Any student can use it during the campus' hours. With that said, I have not idea where to start. I learn some brief theoretical information about Scanning Election Microscope and Transmission Electron Microscope, but what is practical in the real world is quite arcane to me. From the very scarce and sparse info online, I found that decapping and reverse engineering would most likely require a SEM. Is that right, and if so, what model?

    If someone acknowledgeable would point me out to the right model, I would gladly decap in my free time, which in turn would reduce a great amount of money spent on some external lab. I'm still a n00b at things, but with the resource available and some nights at the library, I'm sure I can pull it off.
     
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  2. Vengenceonu

    Vengenceonu Revenge is beneath me but accidents do happen.

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    screw the decapping and buy this. Glass pipe Microscope. For "Medicinal" uses of course *coughcough*
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Lastly
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    Lastly Honorable UltimateAdmiin - Highest Rank

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    I see that you found an image on some random image board, and you can not wait to share it with your virtual "friends," and so you post it in some thread that you wildly connected as "on-topic." If you don't understand all the opaque jargon we speak here, please don't try transmitting your utter non-sense on to others. I gotta say: people sure love grabbing attention where it's most unnecessary.
     
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  4. Vappy

    Vappy GBAtemp Advanced Maniac

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    Or it could be he knows full well what you're talking about and just felt like posting a response as equally ridiculous as your idea to ask for recommendations on an electron microscope on a gaming forum of all places. I'm sure your professor would be thrilled to learn that you spend $10k at the recommendation of some Internet random, and for the sole purpose of contributing towards hacking a video game console, even more ridiculous when you apparently have no more than an absolute beginners knowledge of either electron microscopes OR chip depackaging.
     
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  5. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    I think he's devaluing your plan with a funny picture to cool off your enthusiasm a little bit.

    As you've mentioned, you're "n00b" at what you're going to attempt to do and the 3DS's CPU is an 8-10 layer 45nm CPU. If you've never done a project like this in your life, or a project at a sub-90nm scale, chances are that you'll destroy the die during depackaging, let alone delayering. Professional labs that deal with decapping chips require expensive equipment and trained professionals to work at this scale, you on the other hand are a student who will just happen to have access to a microscope.

    I'm not trying to be a downer here - if you want to decap the chip, go nuts! I'm just saying that this is going to be a very difficult task and it will require a certain degree of preparation and subject matter knowledge.

    I'm also afraid that, as mentioned earlier, you won't get a lot of recommendations here due to the reasons stated above. Of course you might luck out and happen to find someone who works on electron microscopes here, but chances are slim.

    Anywho, here's some background intel on the die itself, if you ever get that far with the project:
    http://gaasedelen.blogspot.com/2014/03/depackaging-nintendo-3ds-cpu.html

    You'll have better luck asking for recommendations among professors who deal with electron microscopes, scientists etc. - those are the people I'd ask.
     
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  6. Lastly
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    Lastly Honorable UltimateAdmiin - Highest Rank

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    As your said yourself, I'm simply asking for a "recommendation." Such pointers are for reference only; the post I will read here are not the absolute decision I will make. You should have acquire some information regarding my skills, as for a professor is handing me 10 grands to buy an equipment for him. Do you think an insufficient lunatic would be given such a costly task if his/her skill... or at least if his/her potential is lacking? I admit, I know very little of depackaging. But I am more than exceeding in every other field adjacent of it. This is exactly why I want to engage in such a challenge; to hone a skill I'm weak at.

    To belittle a stranger of no background, who in turn tries to contribute and help the community. What has the internet... no I mean GbaTemp degrade to. Ah... I guess this marks my leave from this decaying community. It use to be fill with aspiring members of auspicious enthusiasm. Now, words can not describe how the majority has lower themselves to braggarts and wannabe.

    Edit: I mean no offense to the developers and supporters of GbaTemp. I'm just expressing my disappointment to the growing negativity in the community. I find unrelated post, and over-the-top tirade and criticism in a little too many post.

    While this is indeed a forum aim for the "end-user" to home-brew, there are many developers hovering throughout. I mean, if a community is willing to shed $2000 to "donate" and decap the 3DS, there ought to be someone interest, right? In any other cases, I did post in some other physic forums of scholarly level.

    Anyway, thank you, Foxi4. I understand why there are doubts, and I appreciate you for pointing it out -- in a constructive manner, rather than senseless tirade. Like I said above, I am a fast learner - a very fast one. I can almost guaranteed I can start the project in a mere month, base on my previous projects.
     
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  7. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    Suit yourself. You're always welcome back should you wish to return. Don't let a cold shower deter you in any way, but if you're leaving just because you faced criticism and skepticism, you are overreacting a bit.
     
  8. Vengenceonu

    Vengenceonu Revenge is beneath me but accidents do happen.

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    inB4 Temper-Gate. Temper's are going Extinct!
     
  9. gamesquest1

    gamesquest1 Nabnut

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    why do i feel like someone modeled themselves on professor layton
     
  10. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    Fixed my quote since I noticed a typo. :P

    No Temper Gate in sight on my end. We just do what we've always done best - serve our users with the best of content. ;)
     
  11. Lastly
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    Lastly Honorable UltimateAdmiin - Highest Rank

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    Like I said in my edited post above, I'm not leaving because of negativity towards me. That's being inept to the reality of life itself. I'm just tired of the non-constructive tirades of immature folks.

    An educated person who avoid unnecessary negativity does not necessarily mean they are trying mold themselves to an archetype of the beloved gentleman. Perhaps you never met one in real life yourself?
     
  12. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    If you say so. I've provided you with a useful link - it describes the barebones approach to the depackaging of the chip itself. No information on delayering, as that was not attempted by the author. It should prove useful.
    You're still a student, so wielding education, which you are still in the process of acquiring, as a sword in a debate is double-edged. Not that I question your technical ability, I'm merely making an observation.

    In any case, good luck with your project and be sure to publish the results once you get around to it - everyone will surely have a look.
     
  13. gamesquest1

    gamesquest1 Nabnut

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    there's a difference between educated and trying to act......educated, for someone claiming to be educated you don't seem to have a clue of how public forums work.....especially when you drop into a forum saying "i will do this" and "i will do that" I'm sorry but imho you obviously aren't as smart as you think you are

    and for the record i know a few people who have your attitude and *generally* speaking the people who big themselves up the most are generally the people who actually need to big themselves up.....not that they aren't clever....just that they aren't a shining example of intelligence and only use there intelligence as a crude method of trying to make themselves seem more intelligent than they are by trying to put others down

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority
     
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  14. Sphaa

    Sphaa Member

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    What kind of professor asks a clueless noob (no offence) to go out and spend 10.000$ on a Electron Microscope??
     
  15. yusuo

    yusuo GBAtemp Addict

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    With all due respect, life is filled with negativity and criticism, it does not care how educated or academically talented you are, or how you want others to perceive you to be. Unless you are able to brush it off and take it with a hint of disregard then you will never achieve anything but a stagnant title for the next 60 years of your life
     
  16. Lastly
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    Lastly Honorable UltimateAdmiin - Highest Rank

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    And for the record, people who preach others about the a timid person who is backing themselves up as a educated person against a bunch of skeptics is envious. I used no "crude method" of any kind. I'm not even emphasizing my intelligence. I'm just trying to improve my reliability, because I have do have reliable knowledge, contrary to what everyone is fallaciously claiming. FYI, I have a BS in electrical engineering and currently in medical school. Is that not "educated" enough?

    Learn to read my posts. You've been a member since 2007, posted 8 times, and you pop out of no where to join a mindless tirade?


    That's exactly what I'm saying. I am not saying I'm a genius. A bunch of skeptics fallaciously belittle me for absolutely no reason. I'm just saying I'm not an absolutely n00b. Do you think an arrogant Charleston would admit he's a n00b? I'm not arrogant, or inept to receiving criticism. Criticism is great, and I accept every bit of it, but how about a scenario like this: A developer of 2 years experience in fighting games want to make a platformer. For some odd reason, everyone hated it, because that developer never made one, even if he's a programmer. People send hate letters everywhere, because he's a "n00b" in making a platformer. He backup himself, as he made something substantial before and he's "educated." Everyone explode and send him more hate because he's claiming he's "educated."
     
  17. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    I think it's about time we returned to the subject proper. If you have any recommendations, post them. This is not "Decide Whether Lastly is Educated or Not: The Thread", he's asking about electron microscopes. I'll rename the thread accordingly to reflect the OP's intention.
    You're welcome, you just need to work on the way you handle skepticism and criticism - you'll face it every single day in the world of academia, so you might as well start getting used to it and keep it cool. A BS in Electrical Engineering isn't much, but it shows that you definitely have some knowledge on how such circuits work. Maybe you'll get somewhere with your professor's help, I wish you good luck! ;)
     
  18. SickPuppy

    SickPuppy New Member

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    The community already went thru one 3DS decap, and all we got to show for it a money grab and a $80 flashcart.
     
  19. gamesquest1

    gamesquest1 Nabnut

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    trying to make unbased assumptions about other people is not a crude attempt to belittle someone no?
    im sorry but your attitude for someone who is supposed to be highly educated leaves a lot to be desired, you should surely know that every other day there is someone who claims to be a professor or have a bunch of money they are going to spend doing (insert random idea here) ......on the internet things are generally BS until proven, or from a reliable source, ....you see people like to feel grand and important so they make stuff up, if you have no proof other than a few fancy words and entitled attitude that you are legit.

    if you are serious you should be going to proper scientific forums not a game hacking site trying to impress .....people who aren't generally scientists. and almost certainly wont have the best advice on SEM equipment

    Anyways, good luck if you are serious and i suggest you look for good advice elsewhere
     
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  20. yuyuyup

    yuyuyup GBAtemp Psycho!

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    Well maybe he could gather people and other resources to perform a decrapping, I mean he was just given 10 bills to buy a pimping microscope for a college.