Misc Pokemon 4th Gen Tier List and Rules

[Guild McCommunist]

Sticky this please, since I'm seeing a fair amount of Pokemon threads and no tier list here. These are, for the most part, the correct tiers. After HG/SS are released, I'll see if they need change.

RULES

1. No 2 Pokemon can carry the same item, ex. 2 Pokemon holding Leftovers. This rule isn't always used, however, since some items are used a lot, like Leftovers.
2. You cannot have 2 of the same Pokemon. This includes multiple forms of one, like a Speed Deoxys and a Defense Deoxys
3. No evasion. This means moves like Double Team are outlawed. This is in part because if you bring one incredibly hard-to-kill Pokemon with Double Team and Baton Pass, you can essentially make an imbalanced team.
4. No sleep spamming. This means you can't do something like put everyone of the opponent's Pokemon to sleep with a combo like Spore->Roar and others. Some people limit sleep to one Pokemon each, since players often withdraw their Pokemon after they're sent to sleep
5. No luck based items. This means no Quick Claw or Brightpowder and other percentage based items. Battles are meant to be about player skill and strategy, not luck.
6. No 1HKO moves. This means moves like Sheer Cold or Fissure aren't allowed. Like #5, luck based things aren't allowed.
7. No Ubers. If both players agree, ubers can be used, but only for free play. Competitive tournaments don't allow them.
8. No cheating. This means no lvl 100+ Pokemon, no glitch Pokemon, etc. However, there are built in detectors to bar players from using these on Wi-Fi.

A note on PokeSav: Personally, I think PokeSav is allowed for unofficial tournaments. Of course, it's not allowed for official tournaments since flashcarts aren't allowed. As long as your Pokemon goes through the legality checker, it is allowed. Since many players don't have the time to level their Pokemon up to lvl 100 or don't have the resources for every single Pokemon and item, I find this acceptable. Still, no impossible levels or move sets.

A note on hack games: You can use a hack game, such as Platinum Enhanced, Bloody Diamond, etc, as long as the Pokemon are indentical to their non-hack game versions. For example, if in a hack game Charizard learned Thunderbolt, a move it normally couldn't learn, it is NOT allowed. However, since most hacks are rather basic, very few hacks have this issue. On the other hand, if a Charizard learns Blast Burn in the hack as part of its natural moveset, it is allowed, since it could otherwise learn that move as a Move Tutor move.

TIER LIST

UBER: Uber is the best of the best and aren't allowed in official tournaments.

Spoiler

- Mewtwo
- Mew
- Wobuffet*
- Ho-Oh
- Lugia
- Wynaut*
- Latios
- Latias
- Groundon
- Kyogre
- Rayquaza
- Deoxys (all forms)**
- Palkia
- Diagla
- Giratina (both forms)
- Darkai
- Arceus

* Both aren't allowed due to the lack of skill needed for both and, if two of them come face to face, it'll end with a stand-off (due to Shadow Tag and the inability for eachother to hit except with Struggle)
** Some consider Speed Deoxys to be allowed in Standard play, although it's mostly confined to Uber.

OVERUSED/STANDARD: The best of the non-banned. Standard parts of Pokemon metagame.

Spoiler

- Aerodactyl
- Alakazam
- Azelf
- Blissey
- Bronzong
- Celebi
- Claydol
- Dusknoir
- Electrive
- Garchomp
- Gengar
- Gliscor
- Gyarados
- Heatran
- Heracross
- Hippowdon
- Infernape
- Jirachi
- Jolteon
- Lucario
- Manaphy
- Mamoswine
- Metagross
- Ninjask
- Porygon-Z
- Raikou
- Regice
- Rhyperior
- Salamence
- Scizor
- Skarmory
- Smeargle
- Snorlax
- Starmie
- Suicune
- Swampert
- Togekiss
- Tyranitar
- Weavile
- Weezing
- Zapdos

BORDERLINE: Pokemon that aren't good enough to be considered Overused but aren't bad enough to be considered Underused

Spoiler

- Abomasnow
- Absol
- Ambipom
- Arcanine
- Articuno
- Breloom
- Charizard
- Crobat
- Drapion
- Empoleon
- Entei
- Espeon
- Flygon
- Forretress
- Gallade
- Houndoom
- Kingdra
- Lapras
- Leafeon
- Magmortar
- Magnezone
- Marowak
- Medicham
- Mespirit
- Miltank
- Milotic
- Mismagius
- Moltres
- Pinsir
- Ramparados
- Regirock
- Registeel
- Roserade
- Rotom (all forms)
- Sceptile
- Shaymin (both forms)
- Spiritomb
- Slaking
- Slowbro
- Steelix
- Starapator
- Tangrowth
- Tauros
- Tentacruel
- Torterra
- Uxie
- Vaporeon
- Zangoose

UNDERUSED: Not necessarily terrible Pokemon, but can't compete with Standard or Borderline

Spoiler

- Aggron
- Altaria
- Arbok
- Azumarill
- Banette
- Bastiodon
- Bellossom
- Blastoise
- Cacturne
- Carnivine
- Cherrim
- Clefable
- Cloyster
- Crawdaunt
- Dodrio
- Drifbloom
- Dunsparce
- Electrode
- Exeggutor
- Fearow
- Feraligator
- Flareon
- Floatzel
- Froslass
- Gastrodon
- Gardevoir
- Girafarig
- Gorebyss
- Glaceon
- Golem
- Granbull
- Grumpig
- Hariyama
- Hitmonchan
- Hitmonlee
- Hitmontop
- Honchrow
- Hypno
- Jumpluff
- Jynx
- Kabutops
- Kangaskhan
- Kecleon
- Kingler
- Lanturn
- Lickiliky
- Linoone
- Lopunny
- Lumineon
- Lunatone
- Luxray
- Manectric
- Mantine
- Meganium
- Muk
- Mr. Mime
- Nidoking
- Nidoqueen
- Octillery
- Omastar
- Persian
- Pikachu
- Politoed
- Poliwrath
- Primeape
- Probopass
- Purugly
- Quagsire
- Raichu
- Rapidash
- Raticate
- Regigigas
- Relicanth
- Sableye
- Sandslash
- Scyther
- Seviper
- Sharpedo
- Shedninja
- Shiftry
- Shuckle
- Slowking
- Solrock
- Stantler
- Skuntank
- Swalot
- Swellow
- Toxicroak
- Typhlosion
- Ursaring
- Vespiquen
- Victreebel
- Wailord
- Walrein
- Whiscash
- Wigglytuff
- Vileplune
- Xatu
- Yanmega

All other Pokemon are considered to be NEVERUSED. This means they are pretty much the worst of the worst.

Any questions about why that Pokemon goes there or any conflicts you see, bring them up here. This is NOT a Friend Code thread, there's a seperate one for that.

Note to admins: if this needs to go into the NDS - Games topic, then move it there please. I thought since it pertained to Wi-Fi battles and stuff that it would go here.

 

[GameSoul]

Gardevoir is UU? Wow, it's considered to be one of the psychic pokemon and I always have a hard time with experienced Gardevoir users.

 

[bRKcRE]

thank you for this. as i am new to pokemon in general, i find it hard to find concise, easy to understand information like this. i am still playing through Platinum, but will definately try to get into the competitive side once i have beaten the game.

oh, is there any good total beginner guides to team building you can suggest as well..??

 

[kbkoolio]

Chomp is no more in OU. He's uber now.

 

[Mukubird]

Soul Dew-less Latias is OU and Garchomp is Uber; Item Clause is not standard, and should not be enforced. Besides, people usually only run two Lefties users and the rest are usually Choiced, Sashed, and Berried.

 

[Ulttimaa]

Soul Dew-less Latias is OU and Garchomp is Uber; Item Clause is not standard, and should not be enforced. Besides, people usually only run two Lefties users and the rest are usually Choiced, Sashed, and Berried.

This, basically. Although I don't agree with Latias being OU. However, item clause has got to go. It's about as useful as freeze clause.

 

[Ulttimaa]

Also, Yanmega really doesn't need to be UU. It's hella broken down there. There's very few things that can stop it. It's just way too powerful and fast.

 

[UnseenHero]

where u getting these tiers from VGC or Smogon? if smogon you need update :/