Nintendo wins another case concerning flashcards

[CamulaHikari]

http://www.consoleservice.nl/ was also a victim it seems xD~! It's were I bought my Ak2i and a friend of mine bought 2 just last week, lucky her~!
And they were so easy, like they're address in my hometown, so it was always easy to pick things up.

But I was suprised to see that sidder was still up, I thouth it would be known well enough to be shut down too...

 

[iFish]

I say good for nintendo.

They are finally doing something.

You get in to this business. it's a risk you take.

^ for the shops

 

[Hop2089]

Nintendo you are too late the 3DS will be unhackable for the 3DS features, The DSi features were never hacked so this has pretty much no chance of being hacked. They lost the war in the present day but will most likely win in the future due to the technology and game size which reminds me of the PS3, no way most people will pay for blank Blu-Ray disks and the game size eats bandwidth quickly.

 

[YayMii]

Nintendo you are too late the 3DS will be unhackable for the 3DS features, The DSi features were never hacked so this has pretty much no chance of being hacked. They lost the war in the present day but will most likely win in the future due to the technology and game size which reminds me of the PS3, no way most people will pay for blank Blu-Ray disks and the game size eats bandwidth quickly.

1. How is Nintendo late?
2. The only reason the DSi isn't hacked is because nobody's really bothering, and the people who already hacked it are mostly people who are against piracy. I guarantee that there will be more effort to hack the 3DS compared to the efforts already made to hack the DSi.
3. Why does the size matter? In about 2-3 years, the price of larger memory cards will go down, and by then, we should have a full 3DS hack available.

 

[Styles420]

I still hold to the assertion that Ninty's best shot at beating piracy is to stop the shovelware... If they remove our only option to try before we buy (not many rental places carry handheld games, those that do have a limited selection), then many of us will just say to hell with it rather than gamble $30+ on a game that may be good, but most likely will be crap.

The only games I bought for the DS that I didn't regret paying for were the new super mario bros and Zelda: Spirit Tracks... after Sim City Creator, I decided to save my hard-earned money - the disappointment of a worthless game was bad enough, but knowing I actually paid for it still hurts two years later

Ninty may see this as a victory, but if they maintain the same level of shovelware, they may find that their sales actually drop as a result - at least we still had to pay full price for the systems...

 

[Eric345]

heh no wonder why nintendo is better than the other ones

 

[Drag0nflamez]

AMSTERDAM - The court in The Hague has found eleven webshops guilty of stimulating illegal downloading of games from nintendo.

The defense of the webshops, that Nintendo is guilty of unfair competition, was rejected by the court. According to the judge, nintendo has proven that she allows third partys enough chances to develop applications and games for her consoles.

Source (Dutch)

Sorry if the translation is bad, i've done parts with google translate 'cause i've got a bit of a headache right now.

Nintendo is a girl!?!

I like to imagine my Nintendo in tight leather pants, with a great ass, and a low-cut shirt singing lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd.
And I'm in the front row and I'm hammered drunk.

Nintendo is trying to stop illegal downloads of their software. Shouldn't they go for a bigger country?

No, the BeNeLux (Belgium, Netherlands & Luxemburg) has the most flashcarts sold in the whole world (we Dutch people are greedy, it even made a developer skip us for a release of some game, dumbasses now we will use them even more xD). But since modchips are now prohibited, I'd defenitly love to see the WODE Jukebox @ ShopTemp.

 

[coolness]

i`m happy that Amsterdam got probs
hopely not Rotterdam xD

 

[Drag0nflamez]

i`m happy that Amsterdam got probs
hopely not Rotterdam xD

that's just the location of the press bureau - the whole Netherlands is affected by this.

 

[gumgod]

The court judged that: "the traded goods were exclusively used to circumvent the provisions that Nintendo had taken for her copyright combat."

The trade in flashcards and modchips is, according to the judge, illegal with law article 29a, because a number of security measures are bypassed. With that included, the judge has forbidden the trade of flashcards and modchips. He has also forbidden the trade of modded consoles and providing the service of modding a console.

I disagree with this underlined section. While the primary use in the "real world" my be piracy, violating copyright is not the exclusive use of these devices (flash cards). Among other things, how else are you going to get your DS or DS Lite to play music, run Linux or chat on IRC? And no playing music does not always violate copyright. The only thing these devices do is allow you to run custom code and boot up your own OS on the DS/DS Lite instead of Nintendo's firmware. It would be like saying Windows is illegal because it allows you to download copyrighted material and burn it to disk, therefore we should ban the use of Windows and make all writable media illegal.

 

[Arm73]

Nintendo you are too late the 3DS will be unhackable for the 3DS features, The DSi features were never hacked so this has pretty much no chance of being hacked. They lost the war in the present day but will most likely win in the future due to the technology and game size which reminds me of the PS3, no way most people will pay for blank Blu-Ray disks and the game size eats bandwidth quickly.

1. How is Nintendo late?
2. The only reason the DSi isn't hacked is because nobody's really bothering, and the people who already hacked it are mostly people who are against piracy. I guarantee that there will be more effort to hack the 3DS compared to the efforts already made to hack the DSi.
3. Why does the size matter? In about 2-3 years, the price of larger memory cards will go down, and by then, we should have a full 3DS hack available.

Yeah keep dreaming boy............do you really think nobody tried to hack the DSi just for the heck of it ? What planet are you from, and how can you be so naive ?
If it can be hacked, it will be hacked, it's only natural, and with the hundred of thousands unit sold already do you really think none of the hackers gave some serious thought about the problem ? I'm getting sick of people saying that nobody bothers to hack the DSi because it's not worth it, it's just a looser attitude to diminish and hide the defeat.
We are slowly loosing, it's inevitable, and I'm happy that way. Less piracy would only benefit the industry and at the end ,we users will only see better quality and more games ( provided we make a stand and all united stay away from shovelware ).

 

[Santee]

I'm said it was late because the ds has reaching the end of its shelf life and considering how big piracy was this generation with Nintendo I think there going to take a page out of the ps3 book and stop piracy at least for 2-3 years and by then piracy would have been away long enough for stores to bounce back.

 

[BakuFunn]

Nintendo you are too late the 3DS will be unhackable for the 3DS features, The DSi features were never hacked so this has pretty much no chance of being hacked. They lost the war in the present day but will most likely win in the future due to the technology and game size which reminds me of the PS3, no way most people will pay for blank Blu-Ray disks and the game size eats bandwidth quickly.

1. How is Nintendo late?
2. The only reason the DSi isn't hacked is because nobody's really bothering, and the people who already hacked it are mostly people who are against piracy. I guarantee that there will be more effort to hack the 3DS compared to the efforts already made to hack the DSi.
3. Why does the size matter? In about 2-3 years, the price of larger memory cards will go down, and by then, we should have a full 3DS hack available.

Yeah keep dreaming boy............do you really think nobody tried to hack the DSi just for the heck of it ? What planet are you from, and how can you be so naive ?
If it can be hacked, it will be hacked, it's only natural, and with the hundred of thousands unit sold already do you really think none of the hackers gave some serious thought about the problem ? I'm getting sick of people saying that nobody bothers to hack the DSi because it's not worth it, it's just a looser attitude to diminish and hide the defeat.
We are slowly loosing, it's inevitable, and I'm happy that way. Less piracy would only benefit the industry and at the end ,we users will only see better quality and more games ( provided we make a stand and all united stay away from shovelware ).

The DSi is hacked. We can run pirated games on it, am I right?

It's true, no reputable hacker wanted to crack it. There really is not much of a point. Hack for a few more megs of RAM or a crappy camera? Or hack so you can play some more DSi-exclusive shovelware?

Sorry, but it's true. No one cares about DSi mode. Not many people, at least.


The 3DS will be a different story as it'll be a new system. Nintendo had them rev up their hacking-brains as well, stating it as "unhackable." There's a huge DS-hacking scene that will transition to the 3DS and hack it the best they can.
There's no telling how good their anti-piracy is, but you can tell that the community will give 100% of their efforts to break it wide open.

 

[Rydian]

Nintendo you are too lateThe suit started two years ago.
The article says that in the third sentence.

the 3DS will be unhackable for the 3DS features, The DSi features were never hacked so this has pretty much no chance of being hacked.There's no real reason to hack the DSi. Unhacked it already allows you to browse the net with a better-than-homebrew web browser, and it's only got double the clock speed (of the DS's pathetic to begin with speed).
The 3DS will be a MUCH bigger improvement and have much cooler hardware, so a much bigger target for hackers.

As an example, hackers have actually taken to the Leapfrog/Leapster's hardware, multiple times.
http://hackaday.com/2010/07/08/leapster-ex...didj-tradition/
http://hackaday.com/2010/06/30/didj-composite-video-out/
http://hackaday.com/2010/05/13/opengl-on-the-didj/
http://hackaday.com/2010/04/18/didj-hackin...i-2-8-preorder/
http://hackaday.com/2010/03/28/leapfrog-didj/
http://hackaday.com/2010/02/03/leapfrog-didj-followup/
http://hackaday.com/2010/02/01/leapfrog-di...x-on-the-cheap/

They lost the war in the present day but will most likely win in the future due to the technology and game size which reminds me of the PS3, no way most people will pay for blank Blu-Ray disks and the game size eats bandwidth quickly.

You know before the PS2 was out people said that DVD drives and media were too expensive...

QUOTE(Arm73 @ Jul 22 2010, 01:43 PM)

Yeah keep dreaming boy............do you really think nobody tried to hack the DSi just for the heck of it ? What planet are you from, and how can you be so naive ?
If it can be hacked, it will be hacked, it's only natural, and with the hundred of thousands unit sold already do you really think none of the hackers gave some serious thought about the problem ? I'm getting sick of people saying that nobody bothers to hack the DSi because it's not worth it, it's just a looser attitude to diminish and hide the defeat.
We are slowly loosing, it's inevitable, and I'm happy that way. Less piracy would only benefit the industry and at the end ,we users will only see better quality and more games ( provided we make a stand and all united stay away from shovelware ).

The DSi uses 128-bit encryption (IIRC).
How do you break it? You find the correct encryption key.

How many encryption keys are there? 2 (binary, a bit) to the 128th power (number of bits), divided by 8 (8 bits in a byte).
That's so many that the calculator that comes with windows (at least XP) can't even display the number without reverting to scientific notation.

128-bits is...
340,282,366,920,938,463,463,374,607,431,768,211,456 possible values in binary.
However, Since there's 8 bits in a byte, you divide 128 by 8 and get 16. That's 16 bytes, 16 characters.
That's 18,446,744,073,709,552,000 possible values, ranging from 0x0000000000000000 to 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. Eighteen quintillion possible keys.
The actual number is a bit less less since a key will be a certain number of digits and be designed to not have repeating segments, but this puts it in perspective.

Let's say that you have a computer program which can try 50,000 unique keys a second.
That's 3,000,000 keys a minute.
180,000,000 keys in an hour.
4,320,000,000 keys a day.
1,576,800,000,000 keys in one year.

It would take 11,698,848 years to try all the keys at that speed.

So wait, how do they break other systems? If you can get a direct copy of the encrypted data and compare it to a copy of the unencrypted data (as well as view the data as it's transmitted around the DSi's internals), that goes a long way towards figuring out the key without having to try all possible combinations. You'll be able to find the key without all the guessing! The problem is you'd need to take a DSi apart and fuck with it's insides while it's on to try to get a copy of the data while it's unencrypted (since the DSi will unencrypt what it needs on the fly in order to use it), and usually when you're done with that the DSi's pretty broken and in no shape to game, or even to be experimented on a second time...

This process can be hampered by the internal design of the system, so you may need to take apart many systems before you even figure out how to read some of the data, let alone get a full copy of it, and last I checked DSi's don't cost $5... and who's going to do all this work and spend all this money for some extra RAM (when the DSi has it's own web browser that's better than any homebrew) and double the processing speed (which is still worse than the PSP's)?

Next time try actually knowing about a subject before you talk about it, m'kay?

 

[CrimzonEyed]

Swedish people are really greedy, we are even more greedy then Hitler was.
ThePiratebay was born here god dammit XD

80% of the swedish people pirate music, 30% pirate Computer games, and 25% pirate console games, i don't know about handheld but it's REALLY high compared to the others.
(if i remember right 50% pirate movies too)

MORE INFO:

Peter Sunde at The Pirate Bay (TPB) reveals on his blog to more than 2.2 million unique IP addresses Swedish file sharing each week. And it is only through TPB.

The SCB report, by the end of 2006, showed that about 20 percent of all aged 16-74 years, or 1.3 million people, have ever used a file sharing program.

SCB report are banking on individual file sharing, while TPB figures talking about regular file sharing. SCB also talk about unique people, while talking on the TPB's unique IP addresses. As we know, can a man have multiple IP addresses for a week. Note also that Sweden did not expect people who are under 16. SCB study also lacks a definition of what the term "file sharing" means.

But even if SCB figures for obvious reasons can not be fully comparable with TBPs figures, one can still conclude that the number of file sharers has increased considerably over the past two years. In addition, TPB seems much more reliable figures, according to Statistics Sweden.

Peter Sunde writes

The Pirate Bay's tracker system to speak each week about 2.2 million unique Swedish IP addresses. And it is growing. In addition to file sharing not only the people on TPB but on many other sites and through many other systems. So the total figure is probably much higher, although it certainly is overlapped part.

And that was written 2008
Source http://alturl.com/6fhjf

 

[iNFiNiTY]

I disagree with this underlined section. While the primary use in the "real world" my be piracy, violating copyright is not the exclusive use of these devices (flash cards). Among other things, how else are you going to get your DS or DS Lite to play music, run Linux or chat on IRC? And no playing music does not always violate copyright. The only thing these devices do is allow you to run custom code and boot up your own OS on the DS/DS Lite instead of Nintendo's firmware. It would be like saying Windows is illegal because it allows you to download copyrighted material and burn it to disk, therefore we should ban the use of Windows and make all writable media illegal.

If someone made a flashcard that didn't intentionally run pirated games as its main feature it wouldn't be an issue would it? Arguing that it has possible legitimate uses is kind of besides the point. Some of them even use copyrighted game code to prevent themselves being blocked as easily. Even if they didn't deliberately run pirated games, how they even operate circumvents Nintendo's protection in the first place making it illegal already in some countries. If you agree with that or not, well personal opinion but the DS is a closed system and they don't have to let you run code on it, theres no law saying you can do this. Also your analogy is bullshit and you know it is, clearly its nothing like Windows at all.

You might as well just admit, flashcards are a legal grey area and if it goes to court in most places its not going to go well for the distributors or manufacturers. Maybe piracy isn't 100% exclusive use for some, but think about cards like the recently released DSTWO. If you buy it, you have one purpose in mind or you would have no use for the extra features given anyway.

QUOTE(spinal_cord @ Jul 21 2010, 08:06 PM) Also the following should be banned under those rules -

VCR's
Combined VCR + DVD players
DVD recorders
ViVo
Sky+
All commercial PVR systems
DVD players which support DVDR's
CD recorders
CD players which support CDR's
DVDR drives
CDR drives
Tv Tuner cards (for PC's)
HiFi systems which allow recording CD/Radio/Vinal/Tape to Tape

As they all either break copy protection or bypass copy protection on order to work.

I'm not going to go through this whole list because its pointless, but none of these circumvent protection. A DVDR/CD drive in a computer doesn't bypass any protection its software that can do it. It's a silly comparison because most of your examples are some method of recording media, and you can't 'record' software like that. An example of circumventing protection would be a pirate Sky decrypting box (doesn't exist anymore).

 

[chrisrlink]

Nintendo you are too lateThe suit started two years ago.
The article says that in the third sentence.

the 3DS will be unhackable for the 3DS features, The DSi features were never hacked so this has pretty much no chance of being hacked.There's no real reason to hack the DSi. Unhacked it already allows you to browse the net with a better-than-homebrew web browser, and it's only got double the clock speed (of the DS's pathetic to begin with speed).
The 3DS will be a MUCH bigger improvement and have much cooler hardware, so a much bigger target for hackers.

As an example, hackers have actually taken to the Leapfrog/Leapster's hardware, multiple times.
http://hackaday.com/2010/07/08/leapster-ex...didj-tradition/
http://hackaday.com/2010/06/30/didj-composite-video-out/
http://hackaday.com/2010/05/13/opengl-on-the-didj/
http://hackaday.com/2010/04/18/didj-hackin...i-2-8-preorder/
http://hackaday.com/2010/03/28/leapfrog-didj/
http://hackaday.com/2010/02/03/leapfrog-didj-followup/
http://hackaday.com/2010/02/01/leapfrog-di...x-on-the-cheap/

They lost the war in the present day but will most likely win in the future due to the technology and game size which reminds me of the PS3, no way most people will pay for blank Blu-Ray disks and the game size eats bandwidth quickly.

You know before the PS2 was out people said that DVD drives and media were too expensive...

QUOTE(Arm73 @ Jul 22 2010, 01:43 PM)

Yeah keep dreaming boy............do you really think nobody tried to hack the DSi just for the heck of it ? What planet are you from, and how can you be so naive ?
If it can be hacked, it will be hacked, it's only natural, and with the hundred of thousands unit sold already do you really think none of the hackers gave some serious thought about the problem ? I'm getting sick of people saying that nobody bothers to hack the DSi because it's not worth it, it's just a looser attitude to diminish and hide the defeat.
We are slowly loosing, it's inevitable, and I'm happy that way. Less piracy would only benefit the industry and at the end ,we users will only see better quality and more games ( provided we make a stand and all united stay away from shovelware ).

The DSi uses 128-bit encryption (IIRC).
How do you break it? You find the correct encryption key.

How many encryption keys are there? 2 (binary, a bit) to the 128th power (number of bits), divided by 8 (8 bits in a byte).
That's so many that the calculator that comes with windows (at least XP) can't even display the number without reverting to scientific notation.

128-bits is...
340,282,366,920,938,463,463,374,607,431,768,211,456 possible values in binary.
However, Since there's 8 bits in a byte, you divide 128 by 8 and get 16. That's 16 bytes, 16 characters.
That's 18,446,744,073,709,552,000 possible values, ranging from 0x0000000000000000 to 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. Eighteen quintillion possible keys.
The actual number is a bit less less since a key will be a certain number of digits and be designed to not have repeating segments, but this puts it in perspective.

Let's say that you have a computer program which can try 50,000 unique keys a second.
That's 3,000,000 keys a minute.
180,000,000 keys in an hour.
4,320,000,000 keys a day.
1,576,800,000,000 keys in one year.

It would take 11,698,848 years to try all the keys at that speed.

So wait, how do they break other systems? If you can get a direct copy of the encrypted data and compare it to a copy of the unencrypted data (as well as view the data as it's transmitted around the DSi's internals), that goes a long way towards figuring out the key without having to try all possible combinations. You'll be able to find the key without all the guessing! The problem is you'd need to take a DSi apart and fuck with it's insides while it's on to try to get a copy of the data while it's unencrypted (since the DSi will unencrypt what it needs on the fly in order to use it), and usually when you're done with that the DSi's pretty broken and in no shape to game, or even to be experimented on a second time...

This process can be hampered by the internal design of the system, so you may need to take apart many systems before you even figure out how to read some of the data, let alone get a full copy of it, and last I checked DSi's don't cost $5... and who's going to do all this work and spend all this money for some extra RAM (when the DSi has it's own web browser that's better than any homebrew) and double the processing speed (which is still worse than the PSP's)?

Next time try actually knowing about a subject before you talk about it, m'kay?

lol man rydian by the time the DSi is hacked assuming AD will be the standard timeline or w/e it'll be the year 11,700,858 AD DS tech would be like Comadore 64 or Atari tech by then also the human race maybe extinct

 

[gumgod]

Spoiler

I know this is slightly off topic, but I love that picture of the DSi and just wanted to post a source with more images of it. I've seen it before, and most here probably have, but I am still in awe every time I see it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/micahdowty/se...57621023570420/

 

[Rydian]

I'll add that to the copy-paste, thanks.

 

[shakirmoledina]

its not a really huge case, its just tht they found a way to expose obvious downloading and selling