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  1. TheDarkGreninja

    TheDarkGreninja Listening to a song ad nauseam
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    Religion came about at around the same time humans began to develop complex enough brains to understand it. It's obvious that it was because of religion that early communities formed. The oldest known human structure is a temple after all, so in reality, the story of humanity is also the story of religion itself.
    Religion is in one way, a community former.

    It's not just religion that leads people to kill, it can be any belief or ideology. Nationalism was responsible for the deaths of 10's of millions in the 1900's. If you compare the number of deaths because of religion against the number of deaths because of nationalism you'll see a pretty large gap.
    Actually, animism came before the worship of stars, it is the oldest known, although it's debatable as human history that has been primitively recorded only dates so far back.

    The belief of Islam is that life is a test, that's why religion and those rules exist, to see if we can pass that test. I've always thought of us as mice in a maze and god as the observer who place cheese at the centre. Sure you can die in the maze but if you try harder enough, you'll get a bite of that cheese.
     
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  2. TheDarkGreninja

    TheDarkGreninja Listening to a song ad nauseam
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    Communism was just left-wing nationalism.
    ever heard of "Mother Russia"?
     
  3. TheDarkGreninja

    TheDarkGreninja Listening to a song ad nauseam
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    Were the communists of Russia also not nationalists?
     
  4. TheDarkGreninja

    TheDarkGreninja Listening to a song ad nauseam
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    You know you can be a lot of things at the same time right?
    You can be racist AND a sexist.
     
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  5. Haider Raza

    Haider Raza Alhumdulillah
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    The reason I believe is because I don't think we came by accident. Watch these debates & you'll get something of what i'm talking about.







     
  6. TotalInsanity4

    TotalInsanity4 GBAtemp Supreme Overlord
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    No, but he was a nationalist and existed in the 1900s
     
  7. ned

    ned GBAtemp Advanced Fan
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    Yeah because clearly we never had communities milanea before that in caves and huts,
    the huts rotted away but evidence of the tools they made out of stone and animal teeth to make blades etc has been found,
    hell they even managed to develop big enough brains to migrate in groups.
     
    Last edited by ned, Jun 7, 2017
  8. UltraDolphinRevolution

    UltraDolphinRevolution GBAtemp Maniac
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    Japanese Nationalism killed 30mio Chinese (not sure if the 10mio of WW2 are included or not).
    The German Empire attacked Soviet Union, causing 27mio Soviet deaths.

    However, there were religious elements in both cases. I'm sure Hitler would have been a god-like figure by now if the Germans had won WW2.
    And there was a Japanese general (forgot his name) who staged a Chinese attack on a railway so he could start a war (without telling the Japanese emperor about it). He was married to a woman who was part of a small sect that believed in the end times. It is believed she influenced him.
     
    Last edited by UltraDolphinRevolution, Jun 7, 2017
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  9. UltraDolphinRevolution

    UltraDolphinRevolution GBAtemp Maniac
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    Believing in a first cause (which might be eternal if time and space came into being during the so called big bang) is actually logical.
    But how do you come from a general idea of causality to a specific God who is a buddy of a desert dweller 1400 years? And who happens to speak and favor Arabic (the language of the eternal mother of the book, um-al-kitab), favors the Arab nation over all others (Sura 3:110), and helps out his buddy whenever he has some explaining to do (e.g. why his commands change depending on the situation). A heavenly buddy who wants the desert dweller to have more wives than anybody else, who wants him to marry his adopted son's wife, and who even tells the dinner guests to get the hell out afterwards because he (Muhammad) is too shy and annoyed by people staying too long.
    Hope that doesn't offend you but I just don't get it. Your chance to convince me otherwise and make me a Muslim. ;)
     
    Last edited by UltraDolphinRevolution, Jun 7, 2017
  10. leon315

    leon315 POWERLIFTER
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    Due to yakuza keeps Muslims under control??? How addicted are u with segas yakuza??? Lul
     
  11. smile72

    smile72 NewsBot
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    Uh......yakuza...are more boring than you think actually. And why are you bringing this up? The game series is ok...but I think the name is awful.
     
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  12. leon315

    leon315 POWERLIFTER
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    This topic was falling down, and people are so serious talking serious menaces, then I saw ur avatar... People need joke.
     
  13. smile72

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    Ok...yeah...moving on then.
     
  14. Haider Raza

    Haider Raza Alhumdulillah
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    Big Bang is a fact because scientists have witnessed that Universe is expanding & they have done study that it was a primary nebula which stored tremendous energy & exploded. Then universe came into existence that's why it is expanding. Scientists say there might a time it stops at one point & reverse the process. That we believers believe will be the las hour. One of the sign of the last hour (in our believe) is Sun will raise from the other direction.

    Expanding of universe, Big bang & universe stop at one point is already mentioned in the Holy Quran. It's not even possible for a man (Peace Be Upon Him) 1400years ago in a desert known this information. That's why we don't believe it's a man made thing. That's why we believe it came from a creator. There are many more information which you came to know recently is already mentioned there in the Quran. Quran is a books of signs. Also the reason why I believe in All knowing, All powerful etc. Creator is because i'm not blind to think this universe complex, designed universe came into existence from nothing. I'm not blind to think if I throw sand in the air & it will make sand castle for me. I'm not blind to think rocks had conscious & they started building themselves blindly & gave us this complex universe. I'm not blind to think my eyes,ears,nose,tongue & body funtion came into existence by accident. So yeah that's my reason. I don't think particles in the junk yard will give me a laptop on there own & universe is more complex then a laptop so yeah. I'm not blind. (No offence tho)

    Do study because after death there's no chance of returning back from the judgment. (Peace Be On You)
     
  15. UltraDolphinRevolution

    UltraDolphinRevolution GBAtemp Maniac
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    You should be careful justifying the authority of the Quran by contemporary science. I also accept the Big Bang theory but what will you do if superior theory comes along? Will you then just ignore the verse or reinterpret it?

    I assume you believe in the perfection of the Quran. So what do you do with the scientific nonsense in the Quran?
    So you argue that the Quran mentions the big bang, the expanding of the universe and the eventual retraction of it. I don't recall a Ayat talking about the retraction. Would provide the verse, please?

    Let's look at the verse that allegedly speaks of the big bang:
    "Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?" (21:30)
    a) Note that the plural "heavens" actually refers to the 7 heavens (each of them containing different things, e.g. the prophets). I don't know any scientist who speaks of 7 heavens.
    b) What does it mean that heaven and earth were separated? Couldn't Allah be more precise? After all, Arabic is his favorite language.
    c) The separation of heaven(s) and earth is not a unique thing. Other creation myths believed the same thing, even way before Muhammad.
    Examples (from China alone):

    "People say that when Heaven and earth opened and unfolded, humankind did not yet exist" [400 years before Islam]
    "Before the Great Plainness came to be, there was dark limpidity and mysterious quiescence, dim and dark. No image of it can be formed. Its midst was void" (500 years before Islam)
    "When Heaven and Earth were yet unformed, all was ascending and flying, diving and delving. Thus it was called the Grand Inception. The Grand Inception produced the Nebulous Void. The Nebulous Void produced space-time, space-time produced the original qi. A boundary [divided] the original qi. That which was pure and bright spread out to form Heaven" (700 years before Islam)
    "There was something featureless yet complete, born before heaven and earth; Silent – amorphous – it stood alone and unchanging. We may regard it as the mother of heaven and earth. Not knowing its name, I style it the "Way." The Way gave birth to unity, Unity gave birth to duality, Duality gave birth to trinity... (1000 years before Islam)

    OMG OMG how could the Chinese know about the singularity 3000 years ago?! They even talked of dark energy, wow!
    Wow, you better study Chinese mythology if you don't want to go to hell.
    And here you can see the expanding universe:
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Ba-Gua_animated.gif


    -> Do you see where I'm going with this? The separation of heaven and earth as well as their expansion has been an idea floating around way before Muhammad in different cultures. So why am I supposed to study Islam but not e.g. Chinese or Jewish sources?
    Even the Bible speaks of expansion (Isaiah 42:5):


    This is what God the Lord says—
    the Creator of the heavens, who stretches them out,
    who spreads out the earth with all that springs from it,
    who gives breath to its people,
    and life to those who walk on it:

    Furthermore, apologists translate in a way that makes the text seem more in line with scientific claims. E.g. the word "expanding" (in 51:47) is actually in a plural noun that could be translated "and we are surely its enrichers".


    And finally the Quran even contradicts itself regarding this topic:
    Did Allah first create the heavens and then the earth of the other way around? And how does that represent the big bang theory?!

    Surah 79:27-30
    Are you a more difficult creation or is the heaven? Allah constructed it.
    He raised its ceiling and proportioned it.
    And He darkened its night and extracted its brightness.
    And after that He spread the earth.

    Sura 41:9-12
    Say, "Do you indeed disbelieve in He who created the earth in two days and attribute to Him equals? That is the Lord of the worlds."

    And He placed on the earth firmly set mountains over its surface, and He blessed it and determined therein its [creatures'] sustenance in four days without distinction - for [the information] of those who ask.
    Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly."
    And He completed them as seven heavens within two days and inspired in each heaven its command. And We adorned the nearest heaven with lamps and as protection. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.





     
    Last edited by UltraDolphinRevolution, Jun 7, 2017
  16. Joe88

    OP Joe88 [λ]
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  17. TheDarkGreninja

    TheDarkGreninja Listening to a song ad nauseam
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    We never had large communities. Cities only formed AFTER religion.
     
  18. Tigran

    Tigran GBAtemp Advanced Maniac
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    Or,you don't understand that "Asia" actually ecompasses a LOT of area, so wether you think they are asian or not is actually irrelevant.
     
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  19. StarTrekVoyager

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    1) The expansion of Universe is accelerating, that's a known fact since the end of the 20th century. Currently the most accepted theory is the Big Freeze, ie in 10^100 years the only remaining things in the Universe will be lonely photons.
    2) I suggest you to return to high school and study probabilities. Because the probability of you being born is exactly zero, and you're still here. Plus, there is something called the law of physics which led to the formation of atoms, molecules, stars and galaxies. That's elementary general knowledge.
    3) Your body becalme what it is after something called Darwin's Theory of Evolution, a long process across 3.8 billion years that led to current life forms. Evolution has already been proved, don't even try.
    4) Quantum physics say that basically, at any moment, matter can get created from nothing. You should read Hawking.
    So yeah sorry, but this kind of reasoning would be better heard from a 6-year-old child, because it's the equivalent of the retarded imam and his "demonstration" that Earth isn't rotating on itself.
     
  20. TheDarkGreninja

    TheDarkGreninja Listening to a song ad nauseam
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    Who are you talking to?

    Anyway,

    first to address 3:110:
    "
    You are the best nation produced [as an example] for mankind. You enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and believe in Allah . If only the People of the Scripture had believed, it would have been better for them. Among them are believers, but most of them are defiantly disobedient."

    They are the best example for humanity. Not the best of humanity. So no, he doesn't favour them.

    How does he favour the arabic language?

    Muhammed needed to have so many wives because each wife was there to build ties between tribes and people. The reason Kings would marry foreign princesses was to build allies.

    "and helps out his buddy whenever he has some explaining to do (e.g. why his commands change depending on the situation)."
    "the dinner guests to get the hell out afterwards because he (Muhammad) is too shy and annoyed by people staying too long."

    explain.

    Also, who exactly are you talking to?


    — Posts automatically merged - Please don't double post! —

    First thing, who the hell are you talking to?

    Second thing, one is mentioning space and the other is mentioning the seven heavens of Islam.
    So he created heaven before the Earth.
    here's a premise explaining this better than I:
    1. The creation of the earth preceded the formation of the heavens into seven layers
    2. The creation of the heavens preceded the 'spreading' of the earth.

    And a third point is logically concluded from the above:

    3. The creation of the heavens preceded their formation into seven layers
     
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