Is God real?
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@Lacius Either that or God just does not give a fuck about humans. Does not care enough to settle which is the correct religion so that people will stop fighting each other. Maybe Humans killing each other is just entertainment for God.
But why would anybody want to worship a God that does not care about them. Care enough to stop endless meaningless religious wars.
But why would anybody want to worship a God that does not care about them. Care enough to stop endless meaningless religious wars.
@SG854 You're right that, with regard to whether or not a god's absence is evidence of his nonexistence, it depends on which god we're talking about. If the claim is that there's a benevolent god out there who is all-powerful, all-knowing, and wants you to believe he exists, we know that god does not exist. That fact that atrocities exist in the world disproves a god who is benevolent, knows about the atrocities, has the power to stop the atrocities, but does nothing to stop the atrocities. The fact that there's no evidence for a god's existence disproves a god who has the power to be known, knows how to be known, wants to be known, but hasn't made himself known. If a god exists (there's no reason to think one does), he could just be an asshole. The god of the Bible who promotes slavery, condemns gay people to death, forces rapists to marry their victims, etc. was definitely an asshole.
Heaven, by Rupert Brooke
Fish (fly-replete, in depth of June,
Dawdling away their wat'ry noon)
Ponder deep wisdom, dark or clear,
Each secret fishy hope or fear.
Fish say, they have their Stream and Pond;
But is there anything Beyond?
This life cannot be All, they swear,
For how unpleasant, if it were!
One may not doubt that, somehow, Good
Shall come of Water and of Mud;
And, sure, the reverent eye must see
A Purpose in Liquidity.
We darkly know, by Faith we cry,
The future is not Wholly Dry.
Mud unto mud!--Death eddies near--
Not here the appointed End, not here!
But somewhere, beyond Space and Time,
Is wetter water, slimier slime!
And there (they trust) there swimmeth One
Who swam ere rivers were begun,
Immense, of fishy form and mind,
Squamous, omnipotent, and kind;
And under that Almighty Fin,
The littlest fish may enter in.
Oh! never fly conceals a hook,
Fish say, in the Eternal Brook,
But more than mundane weeds are there,
And mud, celestially fair;
Fat caterpillars drift around,
And Paradisal grubs are found;
Unfading moths, immortal flies,
And the worm that never dies.
And in that Heaven of all their wish,
There shall be no more land, say fish.
Good question, welcome to methaphysic reasoning, and keep your steps in next questions.
Like... If there's no radomize in coincidence, does all the coincidences that occur in nature came from one source, if so which one... etc.
That's world of open questions, and there's no typical answer that you're looking for, which means there's something exdended and superior to simple assumption.
That's so called infinity. If you have doubts and look for the answer, the right answer finds you instead. (depending what are you look for, the truth or the answer...)
Like... If there's no radomize in coincidence, does all the coincidences that occur in nature came from one source, if so which one... etc.
That's world of open questions, and there's no typical answer that you're looking for, which means there's something exdended and superior to simple assumption.
That's so called infinity. If you have doubts and look for the answer, the right answer finds you instead. (depending what are you look for, the truth or the answer...)
God is in my oppinion not real because:
* No matter what you pray for, there's never gona be a clear answer.
* No matter what religion chances of dying are the same.
* No matter what religion, people still get hurt.
* No matter what religion the consept of god stays the same.
* No matter what religion people still only really tend to use it to pull those not included down, it doesn't work the other way around.
Religion nor god changes a thing.
Just because there an old book telling the most beautifull fairytales of a past doesn't make that past is the real past.
For almost all religions we can now tell for sure that thier past is based on lies.
If thier past is a ly, what does that tell us about a futere that we're supposed to just believe?
I used to be christian, but the lies are too much!
Hope that answers a few things
* No matter what you pray for, there's never gona be a clear answer.
* No matter what religion chances of dying are the same.
* No matter what religion, people still get hurt.
* No matter what religion the consept of god stays the same.
* No matter what religion people still only really tend to use it to pull those not included down, it doesn't work the other way around.
Religion nor god changes a thing.
Just because there an old book telling the most beautifull fairytales of a past doesn't make that past is the real past.
For almost all religions we can now tell for sure that thier past is based on lies.
If thier past is a ly, what does that tell us about a futere that we're supposed to just believe?
I used to be christian, but the lies are too much!
Hope that answers a few things
@Lacius, in your response to me you completely ignored the heart of my position. Did you read it before regurgitating your pre-curated thought terminating prose? Not once did you define "God" or the other symbols commonly associated with them. You propose that lazy thinking is a religious issue, but here you are doing the same thing "in the name of science". You'd have people believe that a scientist does not believe in the potential existence of a supreme being or something of "God". There are many scientists, whose work you use, that defy your order.
One does not "require" evidence for their beliefs (robot). They pursue evidence for their beliefs. The individual already has evidence for what they believe. As their minds expand and more information is consumed, further work is required for continuity. Rejecting what made you is a mistake as it was functionally "real" enough to create.
In your message, you suggest that you should not believe something without having evidence first. But without knowing what that "something" is, how can you determine what is evidence? If there is a supreme being, or answer, that is a precursor to everything, then everything thereafter would be, structurally, evidence. You are assuming that you know the conclusion, while demonstrating ample evidence of your ignorance/apathy/disdain on the subject.
For example: discourse in the Talmud would completely undermine your interpretation of of the Ten Commandments and "god did it" attitude.
One does not "require" evidence for their beliefs (robot). They pursue evidence for their beliefs. The individual already has evidence for what they believe. As their minds expand and more information is consumed, further work is required for continuity. Rejecting what made you is a mistake as it was functionally "real" enough to create.
In your message, you suggest that you should not believe something without having evidence first. But without knowing what that "something" is, how can you determine what is evidence? If there is a supreme being, or answer, that is a precursor to everything, then everything thereafter would be, structurally, evidence. You are assuming that you know the conclusion, while demonstrating ample evidence of your ignorance/apathy/disdain on the subject.
For example: discourse in the Talmud would completely undermine your interpretation of of the Ten Commandments and "god did it" attitude.
@tabzer I did not ignore anything in your post that was relevant to the conversation. There is no evidence to think a god exists, and if one cares if their beliefs are true, they can't believe a god exists until there's evidence. I didn't define "god," but I don't think I needed to. While there are many different god concepts, I think we all know what deities are.
You claim that I'm saying things "in the name of science," but I never once used the word "science" in any of my posts. I never once claimed that there aren't scientists who believe in god(s), so please do not pretend I said things I didn't. Regardless, it is irrational to believe a god exists in the absence of any reason to think a god exists, and that goes for any scientists who believe in god(s). However, because of the nature of science and being a scientist, religiosity is much less common among scientists than in the general public. Back in 2009, only 33% of scientists said they believed in a god (compared to 83% of the general public at that time).
If a person cares if their beliefs are true, they do require sound reason/evidence for their beliefs. You can entertain the claim or hypothesis that a god exists, etc., but it's irrational to accept the claim as true until you have evidence for it, and that's true of any claim (not just the god ones).
You claim that I'm saying things "in the name of science," but I never once used the word "science" in any of my posts. I never once claimed that there aren't scientists who believe in god(s), so please do not pretend I said things I didn't. Regardless, it is irrational to believe a god exists in the absence of any reason to think a god exists, and that goes for any scientists who believe in god(s). However, because of the nature of science and being a scientist, religiosity is much less common among scientists than in the general public. Back in 2009, only 33% of scientists said they believed in a god (compared to 83% of the general public at that time).
If a person cares if their beliefs are true, they do require sound reason/evidence for their beliefs. You can entertain the claim or hypothesis that a god exists, etc., but it's irrational to accept the claim as true until you have evidence for it, and that's true of any claim (not just the god ones).
@Lacius saying "I did not ignore anything in your post that was relevent to the conversation" is a mischaracterization of the matter. You still aren't responding to what I said, but are intent on talking over my point that there isn't a consensus of what "god" means. Those who believe in god, have a personalized understanding of what it means. Those who disbelieve seek consensus on what god is not. One step further, if "we all know what deities are" then they exist and this conversation is moot.
My characterization of the "in the name of science" posturing you've made, 65% of your response to me was about this statement: "If anything, irrational beliefs like God and religion are what stifle wonder, imagination and hope. There's a long history of scientific curiosity being hindered by the 'God did it' answer."
Also:
I never once used the word "science" in any of my posts
It's quite literally your schtick.
My characterization of the "in the name of science" posturing you've made, 65% of your response to me was about this statement: "If anything, irrational beliefs like God and religion are what stifle wonder, imagination and hope. There's a long history of scientific curiosity being hindered by the 'God did it' answer."
Also:
I never once used the word "science" in any of my posts
It's quite literally your schtick.
@tabzer I never contrasted religion with science specifically; I contrasted religion with logic and reason.
If a person cares if their beliefs are true, then we have to figure out how to discern between what's true and what's not. The only way there is to do that is with reason and evidence.
We can talk about different god concepts if you're genuinely interested, but there is no evidence that any deity exists, so it probably wouldn't matter too much.
If a person cares if their beliefs are true, then we have to figure out how to discern between what's true and what's not. The only way there is to do that is with reason and evidence.
We can talk about different god concepts if you're genuinely interested, but there is no evidence that any deity exists, so it probably wouldn't matter too much.
"Is god real?" If he is I think he is either very disinterested in our every day life (sorta like deism) or has a set of morals diametrically opposed to what you or I would consider "good"
I trully with all my heart believe that God is there, at one point when you pass away you will know the answer, it cost nothing to believe in God. Most people who say that God doesn't exist are people who asked for something and never got it, getting angry for not obtaining what they wanted and getting frustrated to have to solve it on your own. People expect that for them to believe in God, God has to take care of their problems, that it is his duty to help and do so because they demand it. I've read countless of stories of people why they dont believe in God and most of the cases are people getting angry at God for their personal reasons. The thing is though, that when someones life is in danger, for example you are traveling in a airplane and something bad is going on, the first thing that person does is calling upon God, and when the danger is over they return to their own self path again. People saying religion is created to control the masses, that is not true at all. Jesus said love one another, be kind to one another and do things good as you wishes that someone would do the same to you, doesn't sound like controlling to me. People want to have everything handed in a plate, and when it doesn't go that way, people get angry. I have gone through very difficult times, really hard times and i still have God in my heart. Everything has a reason as to why things happens. I had my own encounters with things that are unexplicable, i can tell you that if Gods is real, so are demons, they lurk in the shadows to harm you in the most vile ways. The biggest trick the devil is showing mankind is that he doesn't exist, but he is there. If you dont believe me, go in a full deep researching about unnatural things, for example in the late evenings do research about saints, read their stories. The more deeper you go doing fully things like that the more you are going to sense that something that is not suppossed to be there is watching you, you will feel cold and warm, hear very little fainted sounds, when you hear those things start praying because that means you are not alone. I can understand that people have their doubs, but believe me God loves us, he wouldnt send his son Jesus to die on the cross just for the sake of it, he wants us to be with him. Sadly there is so mucb evil in this world, that i pray that we may one day unite and be kind to one another. Again, i respect everyone wishes, its just i dont believe what people say that its all to control people, everyone is doing whatever they want, believe or not believe in God.
@Lacius religion is not a pre-requisite for the ponderances of "god" or a pre-requisite for the existence of "god". Your assumption of the conclusion is the foundation of your appraisal of what qualifies as evidence, as is another point that I've mentioned which you failed to address. You'd might say it is not relevent because it introduces discontinuity, or a paradox you would rather not address.
You kill the cat and then say there is no evidence that the cat was ever alive.
You kill the cat and then say there is no evidence that the cat was ever alive.
@tabzer Everything I've said so far applies to theism, regardless of whether or not we want to call it religion.
I haven't "assumed" any conclusions regarding god beliefs. I don't believe any gods exist because there's no evidence for gods. It's that simple, and that's how it should be for any claim that hasn't met its burden of proof.
@DoubleDate You say that it costs nothing to believe in God, but it actually comes at a great cost. It takes sacrificing one's desire for their beliefs to comport with reality. I'd have to give up logic, reason, and skepticism in order to believe in a god, and that's a very steep price.
There are lots of reasons why people don't believe in gods, but it's generally because people rightfully see that the God claim has not met its burden of proof. It's difficult to be angry at something you don't believe exists. That all being said, it isn't necessarily irrational to start the journey to atheism by getting angry at God. If a person is the victim of homophobic acts, etc., for example, then it makes since that person might get mad at God for sanctioning homophobia and violence against gay people, and rightfully so. From there, that person might take a deeper look at their beliefs and why they believe them, and then that person might come to the conclusion that there's no reason to think a god exists.
I haven't "assumed" any conclusions regarding god beliefs. I don't believe any gods exist because there's no evidence for gods. It's that simple, and that's how it should be for any claim that hasn't met its burden of proof.
@DoubleDate You say that it costs nothing to believe in God, but it actually comes at a great cost. It takes sacrificing one's desire for their beliefs to comport with reality. I'd have to give up logic, reason, and skepticism in order to believe in a god, and that's a very steep price.
There are lots of reasons why people don't believe in gods, but it's generally because people rightfully see that the God claim has not met its burden of proof. It's difficult to be angry at something you don't believe exists. That all being said, it isn't necessarily irrational to start the journey to atheism by getting angry at God. If a person is the victim of homophobic acts, etc., for example, then it makes since that person might get mad at God for sanctioning homophobia and violence against gay people, and rightfully so. From there, that person might take a deeper look at their beliefs and why they believe them, and then that person might come to the conclusion that there's no reason to think a god exists.
@Lacius Can you point it out to me where it does says that you have to give everything up? Because the old laws that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob followed and his descendants (Moses and so on) changed when Jesus was here on Earth. The 10 commandements are to be followed but they got replaced by one single commandement: Love others as you would love yourself, meaning that all the commandements were cramped in one. You would not steal from yourself, you would not harm yourself, you would not lie to yourself, and so on.
God have given free will to everyone, meaning that if we all would be decent human beings we would not be in all this mess that the world is in now: Murders, cheaters, liers, thieves, its human doing harm to other humans. What i catch from you is, that you want God to clean all the messes that all the humans do, that would be an never ending cycle, people will look for power, money, greed.
I can understand that bad things can happen to someone, that doesn't mean that God Isn't there with that person. Its like you have for example 20 childrens, and many of them do bad things and everytime you have to solve their problems in an never ending cycle, i think that at one point you will say enough let see how they solve it on their own.
I will never ever push someone to believe as i respect their opinions, but what i dont agree with is people saying yeah i dont believe in God neither should you, its not all real its a fairy tale, i find that quite disrepesctful. The same right that you have, to choose not to believe, others have the right as well to choose to believe in God.
As i commented above, many people feel frustrated at God for not getting what they want, expecting God to solve all their problems. I have seen cases as well from people who where atheïst to turn completely to believe in God. There was a guy who didn't believe in God, he was angry at God, he died, came back and choose to believe in God. I have no doubt in my heart that God is there, the devil is tricking so many people, and many are falling for it. You dont have to give anything up to choose God. Be kind to one another, dont be an evil person.
God have given free will to everyone, meaning that if we all would be decent human beings we would not be in all this mess that the world is in now: Murders, cheaters, liers, thieves, its human doing harm to other humans. What i catch from you is, that you want God to clean all the messes that all the humans do, that would be an never ending cycle, people will look for power, money, greed.
I can understand that bad things can happen to someone, that doesn't mean that God Isn't there with that person. Its like you have for example 20 childrens, and many of them do bad things and everytime you have to solve their problems in an never ending cycle, i think that at one point you will say enough let see how they solve it on their own.
I will never ever push someone to believe as i respect their opinions, but what i dont agree with is people saying yeah i dont believe in God neither should you, its not all real its a fairy tale, i find that quite disrepesctful. The same right that you have, to choose not to believe, others have the right as well to choose to believe in God.
As i commented above, many people feel frustrated at God for not getting what they want, expecting God to solve all their problems. I have seen cases as well from people who where atheïst to turn completely to believe in God. There was a guy who didn't believe in God, he was angry at God, he died, came back and choose to believe in God. I have no doubt in my heart that God is there, the devil is tricking so many people, and many are falling for it. You dont have to give anything up to choose God. Be kind to one another, dont be an evil person.
@Lacius Yeah.. there's no evidence. That's why it's called "faith". Look, I get wanting to live based off of facts and logic, but some people believe in something. And just because bad thing happen, doesn't mean God not real. Some people are overtaken by evil, and do evil things like what you described. God gave all his creatures free will, meaning we find our own way and make our own decisions. Free will to do evil things or good things. When said person eventually dies, their judgement comes. So, you reap what you sow. And keep in mind that God isn't just a regular average person like you and me with responsibilities to stop injustices from happening right in front of us. That goes back to the whole Free Will thing. He wants to see where we get ourselves.
If every "atrocity" that occurred was immediately stopped by God, there would be no suffering in the world and everything would be peaceful and happy 100% of the time. I already explained why that can't happen.
@Jayro I did think for myself and have come to the conclusion that I believe in Him. Again, religion is about faith. If you have felt something and believed it, then believe in it. You don't have to, and society has become overwhelmingly non-religious nowadays, at least in the US. So, thinking for yourself could land you anywhere. It's a bit presumptuous to say either atheism or faith is "not thinking for yourself" or being brainwashed or something
If every "atrocity" that occurred was immediately stopped by God, there would be no suffering in the world and everything would be peaceful and happy 100% of the time. I already explained why that can't happen.
@Jayro I did think for myself and have come to the conclusion that I believe in Him. Again, religion is about faith. If you have felt something and believed it, then believe in it. You don't have to, and society has become overwhelmingly non-religious nowadays, at least in the US. So, thinking for yourself could land you anywhere. It's a bit presumptuous to say either atheism or faith is "not thinking for yourself" or being brainwashed or something
I'm not going to be an atheist douche and tell you no. The concept of God and your question to whether or not he does is down to the individual, whatever helps you make sense of this world, your world regardless of deity or pomp/circumstance, I can't nor will I tell you what to believe, questioning yourself and your beliefs is a part of the process to the convictions you will arrive to on either end.
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Psionic Roshambo:
Ohhh just noticed that myself I bet it makes the Master System port look amazing by comparison lol -
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SylverReZ:
If you want a good system to port it to, at least have a good programmer and knowledge.+1
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