Indies Moving Away From XBLA, Console Patches Cost $40,000

[Foxi4]

Care to say one that is on XBLA? Maybe if your talking about multiplatform, the money starts coming in. But the point is that its expensive on XBLA and counting sales from XBLA only will mean that its overpriced like fuck.

EDIT: and yeah even if we count indie multiplatform its still not alot.

Jonathan Blow, developer of the game Braid, an Xbox game that's somewhat similar to early 'Mario' games for Nintendo. His game has only been on sale for a week, but he estimates it’s already sold 55000 copies for the Xbox 360. At $15 per game, that’s $825,000 in first week gross sales. Microsoft takes a cut -- we don't know how much -- but that's still a really impressive debut.

~http://articles.businessinsider.com/2008-08-14/tech/29974597_1_xbox-live-arcade-developers-mario

Article's from 2008, pretty sure that he made more money till now. You're welcome.

Doesn't matter to him. Many games make more than 40k and every other indie developer should be perfectly fine shelling out the same amount of money as a new car just to patch their game. Seems entirely reasonable, right?

Bolded the parts in your post that are true. The rest is just what you inferred from my posts despite the fact that's not what I said. What I said was that if a developer cannot earn enough to shell out that kind of money then the game they released is crap anyways.

 

[DarkStriker]

That was one out of? How many? 2-3?

 

[Foxi4]

That was one out of? How many? 2-3?

Hold on now, you wanted an example of a good and well-selling Indie game with a sales report for the XBox 360 and I gave you one. Dare I say, it exceeded the $40,000 mark without any difficulty within the first week, so apparently *it can be done*.

Nothing is stopping Indie developers from making good games that will sell, you can't expect Microsoft to actively support people who release shovelware into their system and pat them on their backs when their game doesn't sell.

$40,000 is alot of money for you, me and the average Joe, but not a whole lot considering the business we're talking about here. If I wanted to play a crappy game, I'd just go online and play some flash game that I can have for free. When I'm spending money on it, I'm expecting it to be well-worth the money spent. Braid is like that and lookie here - it makes wicked ammounts of money in the first week.

Sorry guys, I can see your point but I just have to disagree with it.

Let me point this out one more time, I'm not defending Microsoft for putting up a fee for patching. I am saying that it's not a whole lot of money for a developer, even if it's an Indie developer, which are two entirely different things.

 

[DarkStriker]

That was one out of? How many? 2-3?

Hold on now, you wanted an example of a good and well-selling Indie game with a sales report for the XBox 360 and I gave you one. Dare I say, it exceeded the $40,000 mark without any difficulty within the first week, so apparently *it can be done*.

Nothing is stopping Indie developers from making good games that will sell, you can't expect Microsoft to actively support people who release shovelware into their system and pat them on their backs when their game doesn't sell.

$40,000 is alot of money for you, me and the average Joe, but not a whole lot considering the business we're talking about here. If I wanted to play a crappy game, I'd just go online and play some flash game that I can have for free. When I'm spending money on it, I'm expecting it to be well-worth the money spent. Braid is like that and lookie here - it makes wicked ammounts of money in the first week.

Sorry guys, I can see your point but I just have to disagree with it.

And? Its 1 game. In every place there is always a Bill Gates version duh.

 

[Foxi4]

And? Its 1 game. In every place there is always a Bill Gates version duh.

If you're so difficult to convince then why won't you just check the sales of those games yourself? I don't think I'm obliged to give you a sales report for over 200 titles just because you said so. Braid is not the best-selling game on XBLA or XBLIG, there are other, better-selling titles.

Besides...

Let me point this out one more time, I'm not defending Microsoft for putting up a fee for patching. I am saying that it's not a whole lot of money for a developer, even if it's an Indie developer, which are two entirely different things.

 

[Rydian]

Patching "should" be free, however I don't think 40 grand is such an unachievable number at all. There are many Indie games that make x times as much profit.

Did you totally miss the post where somebody pointed out, directly to you, that the majority of games cannot afford even one patch?

 

[KingVamp]

Aren't you under the assumption that every good game sells much and that every good game is notice well or clicks with everyone?

 

[kthnxshwn]

Care to say one that is on XBLA? Maybe if your talking about multiplatform, the money starts coming in. But the point is that its expensive on XBLA and counting sales from XBLA only will mean that its overpriced like fuck.

EDIT: and yeah even if we count indie multiplatform its still not alot.

Jonathan Blow, developer of the game Braid, an Xbox game that's somewhat similar to early 'Mario' games for Nintendo. His game has only been on sale for a week, but he estimates it’s already sold 55000 copies for the Xbox 360. At $15 per game, that’s $825,000 in first week gross sales. Microsoft takes a cut -- we don't know how much -- but that's still a really impressive debut.

~http://articles.businessinsider.com/2008-08-14/tech/29974597_1_xbox-live-arcade-developers-mario

Article's from 2008, pretty sure that he made more money till now. You're welcome.

Doesn't matter to him. Many games make more than 40k and every other indie developer should be perfectly fine shelling out the same amount of money as a new car just to patch their game. Seems entirely reasonable, right?

Bolded the parts in your post that are true. The rest is just what you inferred from my posts despite the fact that's not what I said. What I said was that if a developer cannot earn enough to shell out that kind of money then the game they released is crap anyways.

So according to you, if a game isn't constantly making more than 40k after each patch, it should not bother to be sold? Also, 40k is the price of a new car, and according to your post, the one you've just made, they should be perfectly fine shelling out that kind of money. You should've bolded more or left it alone, but I won't put that passed you. Honestly, I need to know how old you are before I can even bother continuing this. Yes, it's relevant because you seem to have this lack of conceptual understanding between profits, money, and how you're supposed to profit off of something you've created. if you're a teenager, I can simply excuse myself, otherwise - I can't help you.

 

[DiscostewSM]

Let's not forget all the expenses that go into making a game from start to finish, such as the tools bought/made, employee paychecks, etc. Plus, there is maintenance that accompanies pre/post patches.

 

[Foxi4]

Patching "should" be free, however I don't think 40 grand is such an unachievable number at all. There are many Indie games that make x times as much profit.

Did you totally miss the post where somebody pointed out, directly to you, that the majority of games cannot afford even one patch?

As I said earlier, if they cannot afford even a single patch then the development itself was a waste of time and the game shouldn't be in circulation in the first place.

@[member='kthnxshwn']

I don't see how my age would be a factor here, however my birth date is available at my profile. You don't have to worry about continuing this little "discussion" we're having as I'm simply not going to continue it. I'm not here to convince any of you that my point of view is somehow better then yours - everybody has their own opinion on given matters and is entitled to them. That said, I am entitled to mine. Answering your question though, yes if a game cannot even make a measily $40000 then why even bother selling it? Developing it surely costed more, it's just a waste of money.

 

[DarkStriker]

Lets just conclude with that Foxi4 thinks every single indie game company/developer is rich and 40k means nothing.

EDIT: And just to be mean : No Foxi4. They usually use less becasue most of them are develpoing it alone or with 1-3 others only. Its not a waste of money when they earn from it. The waste is when they start using that earned money on a patch that would most likely only get 100-200 more players to play it.

 

[kthnxshwn]

Lets just conclude with that Foxi4 thinks every single indie game company/developer is rich and 40k means nothing.

This is a fair way to end it. Also that he assumes that a company must make 40k, use that 40k to push out an update, and not profit at all.

 

[KingVamp]

I don't see how my age would be a factor here, however my birth date is available at my profile. You don't have to worry about continuing this little "discussion" we're having as I'm simply not going to continue it. I'm not here to convince any of you that my point of view is somehow better then yours - everybody has their own opinion on given matters and is entitled to them. That said, I am entitled to mine. Answering your question though, yes if a game cannot even make a measily $40000 then why even bother selling it? Developing it surely costed more, it's just a waste of money.

Although you say you aren't continuing and I'm not even sure you are even looking at my post, but I have to say,
I didn't think every indie devs does or even can develops with such a budget in mind.

 

[prowler]

As I said earlier, if they cannot afford even a single patch then the development itself was a waste of time and the game shouldn't be in circulation in the first place. [...] if a game cannot even make a measily $40000 then why even bother selling it? Developing it surely costed more, it's just a waste of money.

Let's direct our attention to WiiWare for a second, yeah?

Some developers don't get any money from Nintendo because they don't hit the sales threshold
Does this mean the game sucks? No.
Does this mean the game is a waste of time? Fuck no.

They're doing what they love, making games and if they are happy with the little profit they've got, good for them. They might want to continue providing updates for their fans by patches but NOPE, they can't because of the stupid price on patches by Microsoft.

You've clearly shown ignorance to the indie scene and it's laughable.

 

[Foxi4]

Although you say you aren't continuing and I'm not even sure you are even looking at my post, but I have to say,
I didn't think every indie devs does or even can develops with such a budget in mind.

Oh, don't worry - I am. I wouldn't ignore a reply that's directed straight to me, that would be rude. I just finished talking with kthnx as he clearly doesn't understand what I'm trying to say and I'm simply tired explaining things that should be obvious.

Every single Indie developer realizes that making games costs money and once they start development they need to aquire said money, usually by taking a loan. That said, they need to realize that they'll have to pay that loan back from the profits they make.

With that in mind, they need to be aware that if their product simply doesn't cut it, they're in deep sh*t. Forgive me for being heartless towards Indie developers, but those are the simple facts of life. If Braid could make $825,000 in the first week, so can any other good Indie game on XBL, and that kind of money is entirely sufficient to pay the loan back and think of DLC's for the game. If the games *don't* make that kind of money then, well, tough - release them on a different, more suitable platform.

Lets just conclude with that Foxi4 thinks every single indie game company/developer is rich and 40k means nothing.

EDIT: And just to be mean : No Foxi4. They usually use less becasue most of them are develpoing it alone or with 1-3 others only. Its not a waste of money when they earn from it. The waste is when they start using that earned money on a patch that would most likely only get 100-200 more players to play it.

Same goes to you, really. Do you think Indie developers don't have "budgets"? Of course they do! It's silly to think otherwise. Besides, who says they can't bundle a patch with some extra content to both appease the people who purchased the game AND lure more buyers? Nobody said they can't.