Im going to have a 3DS decapped, i need help

Discussion in '3DS - Flashcards & Custom Firmwares' started by jpoopdog, Sep 3, 2014.

  1. jpoopdog
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    jpoopdog Newbie

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    Im going to commission the decapping and delayering of a 3ds, currently im talking to the company that will be doing the decapping and SEM imaging.

    Ive run into a hitch, given i dont know much about the process im not sure what im asking for. I REALLY want to see this through, i got pretty angry about the 3dsbrew scam.

    Anywho, what ive been suggested by my request in reverse engineering the SOC is "block investigation", its my understanding that it will reveal an xray and physical scan of each layer, im not however sure if that will reveal the data we need, or will it?

    Otherwise, can someone inform me of what i should be requesting so we get all the neccesary information, ide hate to pay all that money and get nothing out of it. Its my understanding we need the "boot codes", from the scan in particular, what would give us this?
     
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  2. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    The "scam" was not directly associated with 3Dbrew, it was merely somewhat encouraged. As far as delayering is concerned, they will simply dissolve the SOC's cover, make photographs of the outer layer, remove the layer, make more photos etc. until they get to the very bottom. Some X-rays may be involved as well. Will it reveal a lot of information? Maybe. It will be pretty costly though, so be prepared for that. The 3DS's CPU isn't an ordinary chip - it's a densly-populated, multi-layered circuit. Delayering it effectively requires an advanced laboratory - not something you can do at any random facility dealing with delayering circuits.
     
  3. octopus

    octopus Member New

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    Well, to get the general idea about decapping process check this site: http://psxdev.ru/news
    It’s about some dedicated enthusiasts decapping PS1 processor since July 2013. I’m sorry, it’s in Russian, but I think it illustrates the process pretty good. Use google translate if you wish. Actually, they sent the chips to someone in America for decapping; they trace the microschemes and figure out how they work, document it and etc.
     
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  4. jpoopdog
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    jpoopdog Newbie

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    im confident that they will be able to get EVERYTHING dont worry about that, but, i still dont know what it is we actually need, or how it is to be obtained.
     
  5. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    If it's a laboratory capable of handling the job then all you need to do is provide them with a SoC to decap and ask for the highest possible resolution of the photographs.
     
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  6. cracker

    cracker Nyah!

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    That is some craziness there (PS1 decap info). By the time it is all figured out the [Four]DS might be at its end of life... Or ssspwn might be released. :lol:
     
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  7. Rob Blou

    Rob Blou GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    yeah you should wait for the new 3ds ;)
     
  8. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    I don't think the two CPU's will be substantially different - from what I understand they're just planning to make the N3DS run at a higher frequency, much like it was the case with the DSi.
     
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  9. WulfyStylez

    WulfyStylez SALT/Bemani Princess

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    PS1 decap is a poor indicator of viability. We're talking something that was made on an 800- or 600-nm process versus something on a 90nm (surprisingly actually still kinda old) process. I don't know if any labs can handle these smaller processes yet. Plus you wanna image the entire chip? If it's even possible, it'll be exorbitantly expensive.

    And what do you think you'll get out of it besides bootrom, keyx and such? It doesn't directly aid developing hacks.
     
  10. jpoopdog
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    jpoopdog Newbie

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    specifically though what should i ask of them, like, what am i meant to "ensure" is read in whole, like what would be specifically what i need to ensure gets read
     
  11. Foxi4

    Foxi4 On the hunt...

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    It may give some pointers as far as extracting data or figuring out which solder point could potentially be used to dump what. That being said, it's not as much help as people give it credit.
    They will probably ask you how many layers the chip has to determine how to slice into it.


    Description of the depackaging process: http://gaasedelen.blogspot.com/2014/03/depackaging-nintendo-3ds-cpu.html

    45nm lithography, approx. 8-10 metallic layers, first being power and ground.

    More information about the die and high-resolution photos: http://siliconpr0n.org/archive/doku.php?id=azonenberg:nintendo:3ds_xl_cpu
     
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  12. daicon

    daicon GBAtemp Regular

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    You don't think emulators would benefit from the documentation? I think it'd have an impact on effort other than hacks.
     
  13. jpoopdog
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    jpoopdog Newbie

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    i just realized i dont know which chip is the SOC, which chip, needs to be delayered, its previously been my understanding to be the cpu, right?

    they need more pics so ill have to open my 3ds for them, with more pics
     
  14. gamesquest1

    gamesquest1 Nabnut

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    or you can just take them off the internet :P
     
  15. Snailface

    Snailface My frothing demand for 3ds homebrew is increasing

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    http://3dbrew.org/wiki/File:CTR_Front.jpg
    (a tiny hint: the soc has "CPU" written on it :P)

    That's the original 3ds. just send them the whole motherboard with your demands and a king's ransom.
     
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  16. gman666

    gman666 Cubicle Expert

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    Soo your not asking for money? Great Guy! Here's an image courtesy of Ifixit. The red area is the SOC.
    Edit: Oops Snailface already posted it
     

    Attached Files:

  17. bkifft

    bkifft avowed Cuthwaldian

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  18. cracker

    cracker Nyah!

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    Wow... That seems just a bit illegal. *Goes to play on his GW* :lol:
     
  19. Normmatt

    Normmatt Former AKAIO Programmer

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    bkifft likes this.
  20. gamesquest1

    gamesquest1 Nabnut

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