Hacking and legality...

[Panzer Tacticer]

So me and my friend were talking(or debating...) about hacking and stuff, particularly video game consoles.

So the main question is, is it legal or not to "hack" video game consoles, where does DMCA stand in, and what are our rights in terms of ownership to the console? Can we really modify the software?

PS. This is out of curiosity, hope you don't go too off topic on morality and such . Hopefully I'll be able to get some answers here

Depends on where your butt is sitting eh.

People forget, companies don't write laws, courts write laws.
So it does NOT matter what it says in the agreement you click ok to, if your nation's laws disagree.
So if a game says 'you can't copy this game' in so many words and it is my legal right in my country to make a back up copy, I can do ANYTHING I need to do to make a copy, and not give a shit what it said in the agreement.

Yawn sure whatever, click.

I am Canadian, and it is my legal right to make a back up copy of software ... any software ... movies games music, programs, books, whatever. And as a result, it is entirely legal for me to possess the needed program to rip the heart out of any software normally meant to prevent my doing so.

Now, if you are not Canadian, you might not have this right.

 

[DinohScene]

It's legal since you OWN the console.
If you want to drive over it with a 18 wheeler it's fine.
No one will stop you from doing so.

Same goes for hacking it to obtaining it's keys for archiving or back up purposes etc.

Modifying the software of the console can or cannot be legal.
But running homebrew software is since there is no copyrighted code from the console manufacturer.

Back ups of your original games is somewhat of an grey area.
As long as you have the originals it's fine.

Piracy is illegal.
There's no such thing as keeping ROMs for 24 hours.

 

[kevan]

^ the above mentions backups are legal. But that is true in the U.S where they have Fair Use laws (or whatever it's called).
Here in Australia it is not. Plus there are laws in the U.S which state that if the disc has some kind of Anti-Rip measure on it.
It is illegal to back it up.

 

[mechadylan]

If that's what he meant then this analogy is getting worse. You cannot liken a "hacked" console to a knife. A knife can be purchased in any store worldwide; a "hacked" console cannot.

You're just being stubborn. Also, this thread is about the legality of hacking and not how accessible you are to a hacked console.

Analogies are great tools for explaining complex situations. Bad analogies can oft times be misleading.

it's you who fail to see the analogy.
it was like this:
knife=hack.
not:
knife=hacked console.

and s4mid4re already explained it.

It's you who failed to see that the analogy was bad to begin with. Look, people come on the Temp to seek answers and advice. Anyone that came into this thread looking for answers and walks away believing that hacking a video game console is no more illegal than a knife has been misled. Anyone that walks away believing that if hacking a video game console is illegal then knives should be illegal too, is foolish.

I shall speak no longer on this as I firmly believe that most of you understand what I'm saying, yet refuse to acknowledge it.

Ps. If anyone finds themselves before a judge in a court of law and exhibit A. is your hacked video game console, I'd advise against using the aforementioned "knife" analogy.

 

[nryn99]

If that's what he meant then this analogy is getting worse. You cannot liken a "hacked" console to a knife. A knife can be purchased in any store worldwide; a "hacked" console cannot.

You're just being stubborn. Also, this thread is about the legality of hacking and not how accessible you are to a hacked console.

Analogies are great tools for explaining complex situations. Bad analogies can oft times be misleading.

it's you who fail to see the analogy.
it was like this:
knife=hack.
not:
knife=hacked console.

and s4mid4re already explained it.

It's you who failed to see that the analogy was bad to begin with. Look, people come on the Temp to seek answers and advice. Anyone that came into this thread looking for answers and walks away believing that a hacked video game console is no more illegal than a knife has been misled. Anyone that walks away believing that if a hacked video game console is illegal then knives should be illegal too, is foolish.

I shall speak no longer on this as I firmly believe that most of you understand what I'm saying, yet refuse to acknowledge it.

Ps. If anyone finds themselves before a judge in a court of law and exhibit A. is your hacked video game console, I'd advise against using the aforementioned "knife" analogy.

so that i would not look like i'm in the wrong.

if a hacked video game console is illegal then knives should be illegal too

the way i saw it, rydian wasn't talking about a hacked console. but the hack in which you are using. or how would you use it. it's a gray area. a knife isn't illegal since it has good purposes. it can be used in a nice way, but you can also use it in a destructive way. that's why, you can't handcarry knives in malls, airplanes and some other places, you could get arrested.

If you're cutting steaks for dinner, it's fine.

-nothing is hurt.
-this meant it's just personalization, no piracy. kinda like homebrew enabler

If you're cutting the governor's face off, it's not fine.

-this would be assault.
-if you're using it for piracy. and we all know piracy is illegal right?

so in a way, rydian was referring to the use and effects of the hack to the console.

it's just that,

...the methods that enable homebrew almost always end up enabling piracy as well.

 

[Schizoanalysis]

If that's what he meant then this analogy is getting worse. You cannot liken a "hacked" console to a knife. A knife can be purchased in any store worldwide; a "hacked" console cannot.

You're just being stubborn. Also, this thread is about the legality of hacking and not how accessible you are to a hacked console.

Analogies are great tools for explaining complex situations. Bad analogies can oft times be misleading.

it's you who fail to see the analogy.
it was like this:
knife=hack.
not:
knife=hacked console.

and s4mid4re already explained it.

It's you who failed to see that the analogy was bad to begin with. Look, people come on the Temp to seek answers and advice. Anyone that came into this thread looking for answers and walks away believing that hacking a video game console is no more illegal than a knife has been misled. Anyone that walks away believing that if hacking a video game console is illegal then knives should be illegal too, is foolish.

I shall speak no longer on this as I firmly believe that most of you understand what I'm saying, yet refuse to acknowledge it.

Ps. If anyone finds themselves before a judge in a court of law and exhibit A. is your hacked video game console, I'd advise against using the aforementioned "knife" analogy.

What's up your butt? Geez, let it go.

A hack is a tool. A knife is a tool. There is the analogy.

And just in case you were not aware, this is a video game forum, not a court of law.


I think you have greater problems than a questionable analogy anyway.

 

[Rydian]

The point of the analogy was that an act itself (cutting with the knife) could or could not be illegal.

It's like the OP was asking "Is cutting something with a knife illegal?"

That's too broad of a question, because it depends on what you're cutting.

 

[Panzer Tacticer]

^ the above mentions backups are legal. But that is true in the U.S where they have Fair Use laws (or whatever it's called).
Here in Australia it is not. Plus there are laws in the U.S which state that if the disc has some kind of Anti-Rip measure on it.
It is illegal to back it up.

This is why it is often very much a pointless effort to get too specific when answering well established impossible questions.

"Plus there are laws in the U.S which state that if the disc has some kind of Anti-Rip measure on it.
It is illegal to back it up."

In Canada, that anti copy software and hardware (in some cases) is no barrier to a person wishing a back up copy. In Canada I am free to click 'whatever' to the agreement on install simply because the company that made the software can't write a document and usurp my legal rights. So my clicking yes I won't means nothing.

In fact, in Canada, if the agreement is not readable BEFORE the purchase of the software is made, the agreement is void, nul, and has no binding contract. Thus, virtually EVERY movie I have ever watched, the hysterical warning from the FBI could be argued as not binding to a Canadian. I was not able to read it before I bought the movie. I do not need to honour a damned thing in any game I buy.

Yeah I'm sure the MPAA and the RIAA would rather the average Canadian NOT be told any of this.

 

[Rydian]

In fact, in Canada, if the agreement is not readable BEFORE the purchase of the software is made, the agreement is void, nul, and has no binding contract.

Gah, really?

Wish it was that way in the US.