Epic: UE4 full feature set: 1 TFLOP GPU, scaled down version available

[The Milkman]

So asking for mechanics that would improve gameplay is asking for it to be dedicated? By your logic then having an engine dedicated to graphics woupd make all games look the same.

What? No. The post mentioned the engine itself having the gameplay features.

Look, what currently happens is that engines (generally FPS-based) are sold with a certain feature set (physics, rendering, weapon handling, script type), and then companies buy the engines and either use them as-is, or modify them to add their own features on top. There's the distinction I'm talking about.

For example Borderlands uses the Unreal Engine 3... but you don't see concepts in borderlands showing up as-is in other UE3 games. Borderlands has things like randomly-built guns with potential elemental effects, respawning bosses that drop unique guns, randomly-spawning special monster varieties, a level-up and skill points system, different special abilities for character classes (phasing into another dimension, setting up a turret, etc.), an RPG-type interface when dealing with NPCs and quests (getting money and EXP as a reward, quest progress markers), vending machines... all this shit is stuff that the team built on top of the Unreal Engine 3.

Now there's also games that use the Unreal Engine 3, and add little to no new features, coming out as generic FPS games. These games all share a small set of similar features because they're features built into the engine, which is why most of these games play the same.

The post mentioned adding a bunch of "actual gameplay" features into the engine, that would just encourage all the games to use those same basic features. I mean look at modern FPS games versus some of the earlier ones. The modern ones (like N64 onwards) DO support a lot more for actual gameplay (concept of a shield, kickback, weapon modifications like supressor, Field Of View changes when using scopes, Depth Of Field effect when using "iron" sights) than existed in older games (like Duke Nukem 3D).

The issue being that since they're built-in to modern engines and thus available to all the games using them, these types of features are used in pretty much all the games, so they no longer stand out and they seem generic. That's a reason that engines rarely include specific gameplay mechanics; if they did a majority of games would make use of them without many changes.

The engine's job is to take care of all the basic hard shit like the physics and the actual rendering (you know, having an engine that runs in realtime and takes industry-standard model and graphics and shader formats and renders them to a pretty image on the screen is osmething taken for granted for, but it's not easy to write well), all the stuff companies would rather not be dealing with when the time spent reinventing the wheel (writing their own base engine) could otherwise be spent on actual content development (making unique features, building the maps, etc.).

By your logic then having an engine dedicated to graphics woupd make all games look the same.

http://images.wikia.com/borderlands/images/e/ed/Badass.jpg
http://image.jeuxvideo.com/images/pc/a/l/alien-breed-3-descent-pc-003.jpg

Both of those games use the Unreal Engine 3, so lolno that's not how it works.


EDIT: Typos and such, as usual for a post of this size.

What the fuck are you talking about? Either you misses what I was saying completely or read way too deep into it. Nobody is talking about FPSea first of all. What I ment were features that ADD to gameplay. Like the engine Bioshock Infinite is using. Its got a massive range of dynamic events. That's what I ment. I was asking if the engine is just basically UE3 with better effects or if it also has things like dynamic events (I.e. Weather, Ambushes, Disasters and other things that devs don't pre-script to happen but occur from a list of various events.) or physics (I.e. How many moving objects? Will they just bouce off at stupid angles? Can a large car push a small car? ) had nothing to do with features hard coded into gameplay like what guns you can use and where you can use them. And if you make an engine awesome to begin with then it would make it easier for devs to MAKE games to begin with, I know if I'm developing a game I'm not going to want to add my own fucking physics engine for a platformer just because the engine coders were too lazy to put it in.

 

[Rydian]

Nobody is talking about FPSea first of all.

In case you haven't notice, the unreal engine series was built for FPS games. Those games that use it and aren't an FPS are the types of games that build their own game features ontop of the engine (versus using what the engine supports natively).

What I ment were features that ADD to gameplay.

What, did you just skim my post or something?

Borderlands has things like randomly-built guns with potential elemental effects, respawning bosses that drop unique guns, randomly-spawning special monster varieties, a level-up and skill points system, different special abilities for character classes (phasing into another dimension, setting up a turret, etc.), an RPG-type interface when dealing with NPCs and quests (getting money and EXP as a reward, quest progress markers), vending machines... all this shit is stuff that the team built on top of the Unreal Engine 3.

Like the engine Bioshock Infinite is using. Its got a massive range of dynamic events. That's what I ment.

Current engines should support that fine. They have support for scripted events and scripting languages ontop of it, creating something to randomly determine if an event takes place and then create that event procedurally by mixing a set of definitions is easy enough... as in there's not a need for the engine itself to include it, and if the engine did include a base framework it doesn't mean games would make use of it anyways, as that's a game design point (random versus static events).

I was asking if the engine is just basically UE3 with better effects or if it also has things like dynamic events (I.e. Weather, Ambushes, Disasters and other things that devs don't pre-script to happen but occur from a list of various events.)

Part of the highlights include a new scripting system, so while those things are not standard they should be easy enough to add.

One of my points was that when features like that become standard and everything uses them, they stop being special (just like depth of field changes and variable weapon kickback are not considered special today, whereas they were unheard of back in the early days).

or physics (I.e. How many moving objects? Will they just bouce off at stupid angles? Can a large car push a small car? )

Phsyics are part of the engine yeah (like how the next crytek engine is going to have great soft-body physics from what we've seen), but it's up to developers if they want to include that or not (as realistic physics take a big toll on a system and would lower the number of potential customers by raising the requirements, it'd take extra development time to make sure their resources work with it and remove potential exploits, blah blah blah).

had nothing to do with features hard coded into gameplay like what guns you can use and where you can use them.

Features are features, dude. :\ Whether it's in the engine itself or added on by the team making the game is where the distinction lies.

And if you make an engine awesome to begin with then it would make it easier for devs to MAKE games to begin with,

Hi, that's the entire damned point of things like the unreal engine. However if too many features are already in, then many games would likely become too generic as they would be tempted to use the stock mechanics instead of making their own (which is why I pointed out borderlands and how it added tons of custom mechanics).

I mean aren't people always complaining about how games don't have much effort put into them nowadays and how not that many games stand out?

Yes, it's a great thing to not have to develop the basic engine and physics and rendering stuff yourself, but there's a line where "the engine" stops and "the game" starts, and I don't think the features of the engine should cross that like. They shouldn't define set features, they should include tools for users to easily make their own features (which is what UE tries to do).

I know if I'm developing a game I'm not going to want to add my own fucking physics engine for a platformer just because the engine coders were too lazy to put it in.

"Too lazy to put it in"? Don't talk shit about subjects you have zero experience in, please. It's insulting.

 

[The Milkman]

Nobody is talking about FPSea first of all.

In case you haven't notice, the unreal engine series was built for FPS games. Those games that use it and aren't an FPS are the types of games that build their own game features ontop of the engine (versus using what the engine supports natively).

What I ment were features that ADD to gameplay.

What, did you just skim my post or something?

Borderlands has things like randomly-built guns with potential elemental effects, respawning bosses that drop unique guns, randomly-spawning special monster varieties, a level-up and skill points system, different special abilities for character classes (phasing into another dimension, setting up a turret, etc.), an RPG-type interface when dealing with NPCs and quests (getting money and EXP as a reward, quest progress markers), vending machines... all this shit is stuff that the team built on top of the Unreal Engine 3.

Like the engine Bioshock Infinite is using. Its got a massive range of dynamic events. That's what I ment.

Current engines should support that fine. They have support for scripted events and scripting languages ontop of it, creating something to randomly determine if an event takes place and then create that event procedurally by mixing a set of definitions is easy enough... as in there's not a need for the engine itself to include it, and if the engine did include a base framework it doesn't mean games would make use of it anyways, as that's a game design point (random versus static events).

I was asking if the engine is just basically UE3 with better effects or if it also has things like dynamic events (I.e. Weather, Ambushes, Disasters and other things that devs don't pre-script to happen but occur from a list of various events.)

Part of the highlights include a new scripting system, so while those things are not standard they should be easy enough to add.

One of my points was that when features like that become standard and everything uses them, they stop being special (just like depth of field changes and variable weapon kickback are not considered special today, whereas they were unheard of back in the early days).

or physics (I.e. How many moving objects? Will they just bouce off at stupid angles? Can a large car push a small car? )

Phsyics are part of the engine yeah (like how the next crytek engine is going to have great soft-body physics from what we've seen), but it's up to developers if they want to include that or not (as realistic physics take a big toll on a system and would lower the number of potential customers by raising the requirements, it'd take extra development time to make sure their resources work with it and remove potential exploits, blah blah blah).

had nothing to do with features hard coded into gameplay like what guns you can use and where you can use them.

Features are features, dude. :\ Whether it's in the engine itself or added on by the team making the game is where the distinction lies.

And if you make an engine awesome to begin with then it would make it easier for devs to MAKE games to begin with,

Hi, that's the entire damned point of things like the unreal engine. However if too many features are already in, then many games would likely become too generic as they would be tempted to use the stock mechanics instead of making their own (which is why I pointed out borderlands and how it added tons of custom mechanics).

I mean aren't people always complaining about how games don't have much effort put into them nowadays and how not that many games stand out?

Yes, it's a great thing to not have to develop the basic engine and physics and rendering stuff yourself, but there's a line where "the engine" stops and "the game" starts, and I don't think the features of the engine should cross that like. They shouldn't define set features, they should include tools for users to easily make their own features (which is what UE tries to do).

I know if I'm developing a game I'm not going to want to add my own fucking physics engine for a platformer just because the engine coders were too lazy to put it in.

"Too lazy to put it in"? Don't talk shit about subjects you have zero experience in, please. It's insulting.

Wow. I'm not even going to read that. I was asking a QUESTION. I wanted to know of there were any of the features for GAMEPLAY, you clearly misunderstood and it is my fault for not making it clearer. I don't know how simpler I can make that. If would be nice if I could make one goddamn comment that doesn't turn into a fucking debate.

 

[Rydian]

Wow. I'm not even going to read that. I was asking a QUESTION.

I answered your questions. Multiple times.

If the fact that the answer is more than one line scares you, that's your problem, not mine.

If would be nice if I could make one goddamn comment that doesn't turn into a fucking debate.

Then don't insult things you have no idea about (such as the last quote in my previous post).

 

[The Milkman]

Wow. I'm not even going to read that. I was asking a QUESTION.

I answered your questions. Multiple times.

If the fact that the answer is more than one line scares you, that's your problem, not mine.

If would be nice if I could make one goddamn comment that doesn't turn into a fucking debate.

Then don't insult things you have no idea about (such as the last quote in my previous post).

When did you answer anything? You told me about how terrible it would be to have any extra features and how it would somehow make more generic shooters or some shit. And how do I not know anything about it? Its fucking logic. You don't have to have years of developer experience to know that building a complex part of a game mechanism that should have already been put into an engine makes it a flat out bad engine. Its like trying to paint while your missing a few colors and bushes.

 

[Gundam Eclipse]

Just thought I would post this here since I haven't seen it anywhere else yet, and also because I am not sure if it deserves its own topic >>;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVX0OUO9ptU&feature=related
Apparently that's Square's new engine, its running in realtime on a highend PC or something >>;

 

[Walker D]

Just thought I would post this here since I haven't seen it anywhere else yet, and also because I am not sure if it deserves its own topic >>;
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related
Apparently that's Square's new engine, its running in realtime on a highend PC or something >>;

Wasn't it posted before? ...strange :/

well, this is the Luminous Engine ..and its not its first appearance ..
Do you guys remember this? :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_fbvW0RNjw

In my opinion UE4 has a good increase in believability (physical effects in general working more appropriately) ...but SquareEnix is getting more realistic ( trying to look like the real world)
I don't prefer one over the other ..but I think both are cool ways to evolve in games

 

[Rydian]

When did you answer anything?

In the posts you've refused to read. I'd quote it, but then again you can just scroll up and read it. You asked various questions about what may or may not be integrated and what types of things are possible with the current engines versus the new version and I answered to the best of my ability.

You told me about how terrible it would be to have any extra features

You're paraphrasing (and you admitted you didn't read an entire reply of mine anyways), that's NOT what I said. In fact I celebrated at least two new features in upcoming engines (easier scripting in UE4, soft-body physics in new crytek) but of course you'd have to have read my posts to know that.

and how it would somehow make more generic shooters or some shit.

Generic shooters (games in general, actually) are made with a lack of effort. This is partially where the term "shovelware" comes in. Integrated everything a game would want to do into the engine would make it all generic, and that's a bad thing. Instead engines should include easy-to-use tools in order to-

Fuck it I already explained this to you, scroll up.

And how do I not know anything about it?

You said that platformer physics not being included in an engine like the UE series was because the developers are lazy. That right there shows how little you know about the subject, because it's NOT an easy or quick thing (you'd know that if you've ever programmed any sort of game engine), and there's downsides to including everything (bloat for one, the more features there are the more there is to load and the bigger the files are and all that jazz).

A conversation requires communication on both sides. I'm sitting here reading and responding to your posts, the least you could do is not totally skip mine.

 

[Hielkenator]

Nobody is talking about FPSea first of all.In case you haven't notice, the unreal engine series was built for FPS games. Those games that use it and aren't an FPS are the types of games that build their own game features ontop of the engine (versus using what the engine supports natively).

I think you are mistaken or talking about unreal editor ued.
The unreal engine as such is a separate thing.

The unreal engine is NOT specific for fps games at all.
It's a geniric graphics engine usable for multiple game genre's

 

[Rydian]

I think you are mistaken or talking about unreal editor ued.
The unreal engine as such is a separate thing.

The unreal engine is NOT specific for fps games at all.
It's a geniric graphics engine usable for multiple game genre's

The Unreal engine was originally created for FPS games (the first being "Unreal", the first game using this engine, an FPS, and the name of the game series and engine series) and was primarily used for FPS games for a long time. With time and updates it's become more usable for other genres (and I pointed this out), but even now the majority of games developed with it continue to be FPS games.

 

[Hielkenator]

I think you are mistaken or talking about unreal editor ued.
The unreal engine as such is a separate thing.

The unreal engine is NOT specific for fps games at all.
It's a geniric graphics engine usable for multiple game genre's

The Unreal engine was originally created for FPS games (the first being "Unreal", the first game using this engine, an FPS, and the name of the game series and engine series) and was primarily used for FPS games for a long time. With time and updates it's become more usable for other genres (and I pointed this out), but even now the majority of games developed with it continue to be FPS games.

I know, to point out that the reason devs keep popping out fps games is not because of the unreal engine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unreal_Engine_games