Gaming DS games possibly 3DS-enhanced?

[DiscostewSM]

Do not mistake this for the other thread about 3DS games running on the DS. This isn't that.

After playing 4 Heroes of Light, I began to think that they may have had the idea of it being a 3DS title, what with the way the animations looked like they could have popped out. Then it hit me. What if it could when played on a 3DS with such an effect?

Before people begin to doubt and say that there are no 3DS-enhanced DS titles, let me explain. Just like a program can be compiled to multiple CPU types, if the source code for DS games were recompiled to ARM11 3DS-specific binaries, they could essentially run as native 3DS titles. If the programmers are smart enough, they wouldn't have any code that interacts directly with the hardware, but through functions that handle hardware interaction, such as Nintendo's APIs for the DS. If companies were given 3DS API's, and linked their DS code to use those instead (or make new functions which become the "middle man" or "adapters" to translate DS operations to 3DS operations), they could recompile new binaries. Now comes the part where 3DS-enhancements come into play.

Now, with the above, they could potentially have native 3DS games, but what could they do with this newly gained power? Well, they couldn't do anything that would alter the game, but could there be something that would allow them to improve what they currently have? How about texture/sprite smoothing? Enlarge the screen area from 256x192 to 320x240 with filtering? Or the 3D-effect? If they can extrapolate the camera position/orientation, and form 2 camera positions/orientations, they could manage it. How about the analog slider? Wouldn't it be great to play games like Super Mario 64 DS using that instead of the touch screen? Because the game already contains control with the touch-screen to act like an analog stick, they could change where the input comes from, and then disable drawing the touch overlay when the touch screen was used that way. It would all be added to the new ARM11 binaries. As far as model detail, poly count, or audio samples, they couldn't do anything to those are specific to the game data, not binaries. Take note that it would be up to the developers to "update" their games, even those that are years old, and program additions and recompile them to be enhanced.

So, how would these DS games be able to use these 3DS binaries? Well, we are talking about the 3DS which can more than likely detect a game for the DS or 3DS, so why not give a prompt when a DS game is inserted, asking if you'd like to run them in 3DS-enhanced mode if it is available? Then it would either load the original binaries for no enhancements, or load the new ones that would require being downloaded and store in memory first. Because they'd be 3DS ARM11 binaries, they'd most likely be signed much like DSiWare games are.

Well, that was a mouthful. This is all speculation that "could" happen if it were possible, and if it was in the interest of Nintendo and other developers. It could even continue DS sales while the 3DS is out. Any thoughts?

 

[trumpet-205]

You need to have both DS and 3DS using the same programming language for it to compile on multiple architecture. If Nintendo made drastic changes on programming language that 3DS is using, then it would require much of the code rewrite. At that point it becomes a port, rather than an enhanced game.

But your theory does raise some interesting thoughts.

 

[Rasas]

While I believe it is possible that developers could it is question if they will and the amount of effort needed.

Well, I doubt it will happen for most if any games maybe just the ones that sell well maybe.

 

[tk_saturn]

You seem to suggesting Nintendo re-releasing DS games (4 Heroes of Light,Super Mario 64 DS) as 3DS enhanced games which will also work on the DS.

Now, what would be the point of that? Those games are already on the DS. I can see no reason why Nintendo would release 3DS games which will also work on the DS. It's clear from the notch on the side of the 3DS, Nintendo has no intention of doing this. I imagine it easier for developers to do the games for multiple platforms seperately, they also have the potential to sell 2 copies of the game instead of one.

I don't see there being any future 3DS enhanced games which also work on the DS. All it will do is make the DS games more expensive.

As for running DS games on the 3DS, Nintendo will want you to buy NEW games. That way they get more money. Nintendo will rehash all of their big name games for the 3DS in glorious 3D, and sell them all over again. It's what the've done with some of the GBA games isn't it?

As for the US Pokemon Black/White, it won't stray far from the Japanese release. Don't worry, there will be plenty of Pokemon 3DS games as it's a cash cow.

For the 3DS to be a success, they

 

[notmeanymore]

If it's gonna happen with any game, it'll be a BIG name. I'd almost bet Black and White secretly have the capability. My only basis for this claim: Black and White aren't out in America yet, but the 3DS is coming out not long before/after it. Seems suspicious. You'd think Nintendo would twist all the Pokefans arms into buying a 3DS with Black and White instead.

You seem to suggesting Nintendo re-releasing DS games (4 Heroes of Light,Super Mario 64 DS) as 3DS games which will also work on the DS.

Now, what would be the point of that? Those games are already on the DS.

No he's talkin about a game already out will be in 3D when put into the 3DS. I think...

 

[DiscostewSM]

You seem to suggesting Nintendo re-releasing DS games (4 Heroes of Light,Super Mario 64 DS) as 3DS enhanced games which will also work on the DS.

Now, what would be the point of that? Those games are already on the DS.

Not a re-release. You would require the original game, as it contains the raw game data, but the new binaries would be in the 3DS format (taken from the original source code, but compiled to 3DS ARM11 binaries and using 3DS APIs instead of DS APIs) that is downloaded from Nintendo's servers to the 3DS memory, and loaded in place of the binaries on the DS card.

 

[Rydian]

If you re-release a game, then you'd have a game that works in the DS and 3DS, and a later version of the same game that works in the DS and also in the 3DS with enhancements, and then the sequel for the 3DS fully?

That's just going to confuse consumers. I mean look at all the bitching when Vista came out with it's various versions (by people who didn't know just how many editions of XP there were).

 

[tk_saturn]

Not a re-release. You would require the original game, as it contains the raw game data, but the new binaries would be in the 3DS format (taken from the original source code, but compiled to 3DS ARM11 binaries and using 3DS APIs instead of DS APIs) that is downloaded from Nintendo's servers to the 3DS memory, and loaded in place of the binaries on the DS card.

Why wouldn't Nintendo simply rehash the game as a native 3DS title and sell it for full price? Like for example they did with Super Mario 64. More $$$ for Nintendo. There's little benefit for Nintendo to do what you are suggesting. If it's downloading it from Nintendo's servers, why would it need the original cart at all?

 

[DiscostewSM]

I was explaining a no re-releases method, that only the original DS game card would continued to be sold, but 3DS owners could download an "update" that gets saved into the device's flash memory, and is loaded when the game is executed instead of the original binaries being loaded. No alterations to the original game card, but game card still required because it holds the raw game data.

 

[person66]

I think it would be smart of Nintendo to do that. It will allow them to continue selling old DS games even after the 3DS release. Although, I cant see ninty doing that for free, if they did this, than I'm 90% sure that they would charge you a good deal of money per game download, even though you already have the game cart. Still I would pay for it (as long as its not ridiculously high) to play "enhanced" versions of my old DS games.

 

[Rasas]

I don't see it happening. While it happened with sony and some 3d games. Microsoft and Nintendo don't usually do updatable games unless it is that bad. Nintendo releases different versions unless the bug is that bad and even then you can send a save or other things and they will fix it. Microsoft would probably want to sell the enhancement like with the free maps and free patch fiasco at any rate it isn't looking good if you want it upgradable for free. Plus sony and PSP go is another great example on enhancement and upgrades in a way.

 

[Mesiskope]

 

[DiscostewSM]

Not a re-release. You would require the original game, as it contains the raw game data, but the new binaries would be in the 3DS format (taken from the original source code, but compiled to 3DS ARM11 binaries and using 3DS APIs instead of DS APIs) that is downloaded from Nintendo's servers to the 3DS memory, and loaded in place of the binaries on the DS card.

Why wouldn't Nintendo simply rehash the game as a native 3DS title and sell it for full price? Like for example they did with Super Mario 64. More $$$ for Nintendo. There's little benefit for Nintendo to do what you are suggesting. If it's downloading it from Nintendo's servers, why would it need the original cart at all?


What they did with Super Mario 64 for the DS was that they spent at least a good year remaking it with new levels, new game models, new game mechanics, etc. They didn't simply port it, and, because of the clear difference between the N64 and DS hardware such as the access speeds of cartridges and cards, they "couldn't" port it. And, because of how long ago the original came out, it was only logical to re-release it. The DS heart is still beating, and will continue to beat for years after the 3DS takes over.

The benefit I see them in doing this is more incentive to purchase a 3DS system, as well as continuing sales for those DS games that get this "update" method. Just an after-thought, but if Nintendo did enforce this to provide backwards-compatibility, they could remove DS mode from the 3DS (since the games would be running as if they were native 3DS games), and prevent DS piracy from running on the 3DS.

And, I said nothing about downloading the entire game as you imply. I'm speaking specifically about the game binaries, which is the code the device executes to handle the calculations and such. The binaries are far smaller than the game data, allowing little time for downloading.

There would be no game-changing additions, therefore, little programming done.

QUOTE(Mesiskope @ Oct 29 2010, 10:31 PM)

A picture is worth a thousand words, but it uses up three thousand times more memory. (think I found a new sig)

I'd like to know why the /facepalm, if you don't mind.

 

[lostdwarf]

pokemon b/w looks like a 3ds enhanced game.
really looks as though it was made to be ds and 3ds enhanced. all the animations would work in 3d.
its also coming out here around the same time as 3ds.

 

[chartube12]

pokemon b/w looks like a 3ds enhanced game.
really looks as though it was made to be ds and 3ds enhanced. all the animations would work in 3d.
its also coming out here around the same time as 3ds.

Wasn't pokemon gold and silver an original gb game in japan but when they were released else where, it was as GBC games?

 

[koji2009]

You're thinking about Pokemon Yellow. Yellow was released in Japan as a GB only game, but outside of Japan it was enhanced for the then released GBC. Gold and Silver were designed from the beginning to be GBC titles in all regions.


Is this possible? Yes. Is this likely? No. Not unless Ninty can find a way to make a quick buck off of it. "Download 3DS enhancement for $5 a game as allowed by developers" kind of deal.

That's not to say that Ninty couldn't do a backwards compatible "2.5d" effect for certain 2d only games that use DS hardware layers (much the same way as the NES/SNES ports on 3ds were done) as it would be incredibly easy to just put depth between layers... but even this seems unlikely because people would be upset that the 3d games wouldn't be able to have 3d effects (the NDS 3d is 'squashed' onto a 2d layer and thus 3d games wouldn't have any 3d effect, though depending on how the menus/HUD are handled on a game to game basis they may stick out... but it would be an odd effect at best)

 

[dsfanatic5]

The logic in thread doesn't require too much thought, which is why I see a lot of "face palm" responses.

Old Game On Newer System = Possible Enhancements
New Game On Older System = Won't Work (insert common sense)

If you look at Nintendo's past, you'll see how they handle compatibility, and upgrades. I find the Super Gameboy, and Gameboy Color to be good examples. Super GB titles were basically regular GB titles with enhancements built in, to take advantage of SGB's color pallette and border design on tvs. These weren't exactly new technology, just enhanced, much like how the DSi enhanced titles today could be considered DS games.

Nintendo will change the shape of the cartridge, so braindead people don't try to put the square peg in the round hole. Gameboy Color changed shape, and so on, leading up to the 3DS carts.

If Nintendo releases DS games that are "3D Enhanced," they will be complete re-releases, much like Tetris and Zelda: Link's Awakening DX (Gameboy Color), and the Play Control series for the Wii. They aren't going to program and release patches free of charge to make old games better, when they can repackage them and make NEW money.

 

[FireGrey]

I reckon Pokemon Black and White is a 3DS-Enhanced game.
Game-Freak started making it about the time they got the 3DS dev kit.

 

[popoffka]

Well, to do what TC suggests, you should actually have two games on one cartridge — one for DS and one for 3DS. And DS cartridges really do have limited memory, I think it wouldn't be enough to store a DS game and a 3DS game (and good 3DS games are going to have really big sizes).
So, I'd rather think that for some time after 3DS launches, developers will make two versions of their games — one for DS and one for 3DS, sold separately.

 

[ProtoKun7]

While the DS cards don't always have a lot of memory, considering that it is essentially flash memory, it isn't too hard to just release a card with more space; they just haven't had to.