Carts vs VC

Discussion in 'Wii - Emulation and Homebrew' started by CobraStr1ke, Dec 25, 2012.

Dec 25, 2012

Carts vs VC by CobraStr1ke at 7:24 PM (1,884 Views / 0 Likes) 31 replies

  1. CobraStr1ke
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    Member CobraStr1ke GBAtemp Regular

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    Hey everyone...Just curious as to what are your thoughts on real carts vs VC or even RetroArch for SNES mainly? I was going to start collecting more carts but was not sure. I was curious to know if the SNES games have accurate sound as I see a lot of people have said there are some that are very "off". I personally have SNESx Next 1.52.2 running at 384x224p and to me the games look fantastic on my CRT and the sound seems like its accurate to me. I am also using component cables on my Wii. I get why people like having the carts etc but I was curious if I should buy a SNES controller for the Wii with a convertor to hook it up to the Wii, or invest in a real SNES? What are your thoughts? I was hoping we can maybe have a good conversation as I know many of you are really smart and can steer me in the right direction.

    My main issue with a SNES is the tons and tons of yellowed consoles I see for sale, as well as the game labels on the carts. I would like to have labels that were not scuffed or have little tears in them here and there if I was going to go that route but its very hard to find them on eBay with even good clean and honest pictures.

    Basically Im looking for pros and cons of each....Also I mentioned the resolution they are running above ^ on RetroArch...is that native or as accurate as I can possibly be? Again they look excellent off my CRT and I just wanted to know some of your opinions on everything. Thanks again and happy holidays to everyone!
     


  2. the_randomizer

    Member the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

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    Emulation
    + No need to replace SRAM batteries
    + No need to blow out dust from slot
    + With the right TV, it can look exactly like the original
    + No need to swap carts out over and over again
    + Accuracy is such that it can sound like the real hardware
    + No need to replace any damaged carts you have in possession
    + Fancy filters can be used to enhance the image
    - Not all emulators have 100% compatibility
    - Playing at 240p on LCD is not a good idea*
    - Possible issue of input lag on high latency LCD TVs

    Real Hardware
    + There's no substitute to playing it on real hardware
    + Nothing can perfectly simulate the look of an old-school CRT screen
    + No input lag whatsoever
    + Many used games can be bought at a decent price
    - Batteries die out after 10-15 years and must be replaced
    - Some games are sold for exorbitant prices on eBay

    Can't remember anything else for now

    *Very few LCDs scale to 240p.
     
  3. CobraStr1ke
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    Member CobraStr1ke GBAtemp Regular

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    Thanks for the response bud. I use a Samsung CRT made in 1999 and it looks excellent off it. Any idea if the resolution I posted is ideal for the SNES, and also any clue if the colors and image on a Wii with component cables is much better than what you can get out of a SNES? Im aware of the batteries needing to be swapped in carts, and also HQ4x filters etc. on emulators.... I just personally like the pixel look (original) with no filters that a CRT offers and was wondering if its wise to invest in a SNES and some of the popular "easy to get carts" such as Zelda A Link to the Past, Metroid, Allstars etc. in the meantime. Also if I did what the PQ would look like compared to the Wii. Thanks again
     
  4. Bladexdsl

    Member Bladexdsl ZOMG my posts...it's over 9000!!!

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    here's a few more advantages with emulation

    + want to cheat or save anywhere you want than save states are for you
    + playing the old games with a wavebird controller is just heaven
     
  5. CobraStr1ke
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    Member CobraStr1ke GBAtemp Regular

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    Bladexdsl ^ that is a good point as well. I also thought about that too as far as the save states. I have one huge question if anyone can answer it. I am using a Retroarch build that allows me to go down to 384x224p for SNES. Is this an actual resolution the SNES ever used? I am playing off my CRT and as I mentioned it looks pretty awesome. I am using the RGB cables on the Wii as well and was just curious as I have read various resolutions were used such as 256x224 and even some others, but I have not seen the resolution I am using as one of them.
     
  6. OriginalHamster

    Member OriginalHamster UStealthy

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    I like you can play VC games in 480p, some people say that VC games aren't perfect emulated but they sound and look excelent to me, I guess that people is really picky about emulation, I don't remember that playing in the original consoles was that great diference in video/sound respect VC.
     
  7. VampireLordAlucard

    Member VampireLordAlucard GBAtemp Regular

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    I have my systems hooked to an HDTV.
    - SNES hardware looks super blurry.
    - SNES Virtual Console is super crisp.

    Why play SNES games in 224p, on a CRT? I like playing games as originally intended, but 224 is a hardware limitation. I feel 480p (or higher) on an LCD is a better representation of what the sprites should look like. If you're going for the original experience, then I'd think save states would be out of the question. But to each their own.

    If you do want the original hardware, another option could be a SNES flash cart. Or, if you have more time than money, hit up thrift stores. You'll find SNES games occasionally. Also, Craigslist tends to be cheaper than ebay, especially for those common carts. A console should also be cheaper on Craigslist than ebay, and you can see the condition before buying it.

    If you go with using the Wii, definitely get an adaptor to use an SNES controller.

    Good luck!
     
  8. the_randomizer

    Member the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

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    Don't try Donkey Kong Country 2 with one of those; those Bayou Barrel levels are hell.
    I'll have to disagree with the Virtual Console; on LCD TVs there is no filtering when upscaled to 480p resolution and looks heavily pixelated (and like s**t). Snes9x Next for the Wii however, has a bilinear filter and makes it look closer to how it should look.
    Snes9xGx or Snes9x Next filtering > than Virtual Console's lack of filtering at 480p
     
  9. CobraStr1ke
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    Member CobraStr1ke GBAtemp Regular

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    I play them off a CRT because I enjoy the scanlines and pixel for pixel look the way they were made. I also dont really use save states unless Im out of battle, or not near a save point and Im done playing. Also SNES flash carts dont handle all games such as Yoshis Island etc as far as I know. As for emulators I dont like HQ4x for a majority of the games I have seen with it although it does look kinda cool on some and is impressive for sure. I keep the CRT for old school games and a Panasonic plasma for current gen etc... I was looking into a SNES controller (not the classic controller but an actual SNES one) and have seen a Mayflash device. Is that the popular one? I know theres 2 ways of hooking up a SNES, one through a wiimote and another through the actual GC port.

    VampireLordAlucard not to sound rude just a question. If you say hardware limitation then wouldnt people not continue to buy and also build arcade cabinets to play arcade games or MAME etc and instead play them off LCD's instead of CRT's? As far as I know and have seen MAME looks like garbage off an LCD so by your logic its better to play arcade games off a HD monitor? Im just trying to understand since the CRT in front of me looks really really good running RetroArch as the_randomizer just talked about. Im also curious where 384x224 resolution came from lol? Its the lowest I can set Retroarch to and it looks really good and how i remember it but is that higher than the SNES native resolution? If anyone knows please school me on this.
     
  10. J-Machine

    Member J-Machine Self proclaimed Pog champion

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    in my experience i've come to the opinion that unless I really enjoy a game, I cannot play through an emulated game experience. it's good to see if I'd enjoy the gameplay but over 80% of those games are never finished until I buy them for their respected console and play it as authentically as possible.

    Wikipedia on native screen resolutions: "Images may be output at 256 or 512 pixels horizontal resolution and 224, 239, 448, or 478 pixels vertically. Vertical resolutions of 224 or 239 are usually output in progressive scan, while 448 and 478 resolutions are interlaced. "
    When I play on my wii for snes I just use the classic controller (origional one) but for the SNES console itself I got this bad boy here http://www.amazon.com/SuperRetro-Wireless-Controller-Solo-RETROBIT/dp/B00823PWUK/ref=pd_cp_pc_0 It's wireless and actually feels and responds very well. In fact I find my controller is more responsive than the original gamepad which is great for fighters.

    the snes can use upto an s-video cable designed for it, an n64, or the gamecube and this cable can be had for around 10 bucks or less. if you go for s-video over the other formats you should get a cable without the yellow rca plug as well as they tend to share the signal and offer a sub-par experience. for example you can get this http://www.racketboy.com/store/featured/nintendo-svideo-cables.html or http://www.amazon.com/Gamecube-S-Video-Cable/dp/B000P6R46W/ref=pd_sim_vg_1 for s-video or this http://www.amazon.com/NINTENDO-GAME...IDEO-Packaging/dp/B00095KU5G/ref=pd_sim_vg_42 for regular av.

    if you plan to not use an emulator on an hdtv i highly reccommend keeping the tv on standard and not widescreen, using the best cable you can buy and if you got the money, an upconverter like this or better: http://www.amazon.com/Composite-S-video-Audio-HDMI-Converter/dp/B003NS0UUQ/ref=pd_sim_vg_1 and or a device that makes scanlines on your hdtv for you like this: http://www.arcadeforge.de/product_info.php?products_id=12&XTCsid=52kpgdf1mf0vgkcjjqa09ihl60 (you will need a vga converter for this to work like this one http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-COMP2VGA-Composite-Converter-Computer/dp/B00006B8EI/)

    you can also do what I do; buy all your games, shove em in a box, and use a flash cart to have all your games plugged into your snes at once. There are many kinds of snes flash carts out there but I would only recommend either the super everdrive seen here: http://stoneagegamer.com/super_everdrive_cart.aspx or the SD2SNES here: http://stoneagegamer.com/sd2nses.aspx if you get the everdrive make sure it has the dsp-1 chip pre-installed to ensure the highest compatibility possible.

    at the end of the day though get whatever you feel would give you what you need based on preferences and cost to implement. I have a floor model crt tv with s-video for all my classic consoles and an hdtv ontop of it for anything ps2 or newer. I use flashcarts and softmodded consoles to keep my game library in one place since boxing all my games in the closet (I have over a hundred) is best for my small apartment as far as space saving is concerned. The only thing left for me to do is find good wireless controllers for the systems that don't have them yet. Meanwhile I have a friend who simply has a pc connected to an hdtv and uses a ps3 or 360 controller for all his emulators and he is quite content with that setup.

    Hope this wall of text helps!
     
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  11. CobraStr1ke
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    Member CobraStr1ke GBAtemp Regular

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    Thanks bud for the insight. i may just go ahead and buy the actual carts one by one and use The Game Cover projects artwork with some universal cases for anything loose that I get. May as well since I love SNES and grew up with that and Genesis. I know some carts can go for a lot but maybe getting them one at a time will be a good idea for me since I like having the physical copy and tend to respect it more etc. I guess I would be totally content that way too since I assume they will only rise in cost and become harder to find. I dont need a complete library just the ones I totally love such as the big hits, Metroid, Allstars, Earthbound, Punchout, Contra etc. Thanks again for the insight. Maybe ill just start with the carts and still keep the Wii hooked up if the picture quality looks better on my CRT.
     
  12. J-Machine

    Member J-Machine Self proclaimed Pog champion

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    I totally forgot to address your yellowing console problem. You can either spray paint the case to make it unique to you, or you can make retr0bright gel to reverse the tarnished areas. the recipe and application instructions for retr0bright can be found here: http://retr0bright.wikispaces.com/Retr0Bright+Gel. use gloves though as hydrogen peroxide isn't the kindest of chemicals at times.
     
  13. CobraStr1ke
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    Hey thanks man and yup I have seen RetroBrite before and looked into all this. Good looking out though. I have read up and watched a review on the everdrive flash cart and saw you can get it in purple or black i believe it was. I also plan to use a Samsung CRT for the SNES with the best possible connection I can get which is S-Video you said? It isnt possible to use RGB if modified is it? I am about to go to a retro game store in my city to look at their SNES things as they seem to have quite a bit so I should be back soon. Im going to look for a console since I would like to own one and cant for the life of me find the one I purchased back in the day at Leechmere when it first launched (= ....I will go look for a non yellowed , non dogged console and should be back soon. Thanks again man I will let you know if I come across anything good. Also do you know if its true that a SNES mini gives a better picture then the original SNES as thats what I believe I read somewhere? I figure I would like to have the real thing this way I know there isnt any second guessing if its being emulated all the way or any compatibility issues arise or slowdowns that are not meant to be there etc. Ill start off with A Link to the Past and maybe some Mario Allstars....thanks again bud.
     
  14. Qtis

    Member Qtis Grey Knight Inquisitor

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    If you want to play the games on original hardware, getting a SNES flashcart could just as well be an option. Especially if you want to keep your games in one place and possibly at a minimum next to your TV. Compatibility is very close to perfect with most of them and development is ongoing. Most problems are with problematic games (just like with most emulators).

    There are a few different options:
    Super Everdrive
    SD2SNES
    SNES PowerPak

    Reading reviews of those can give you a pretty good guess of which one would be the best.
     
  15. CobraStr1ke
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    Member CobraStr1ke GBAtemp Regular

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    Qtis cool thank you ^. I have one question about those...Are they technically being emulated still since its a rom off a cart or is it pretty much safe to say its not emulated since its playing off the real hardware?That kind of confuses me.
     
  16. Qtis

    Member Qtis Grey Knight Inquisitor

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    Pretty much everything is original hardware in one way or another. Super Everdrives have even been made with actual cart chips a part of it.

    So basically it's just like a DS flashcart: Hardware is modified from original carts and the firmware can compensate for some missing features. It's not bulletproof, but it's an alternative for keeping all the huge ass carts next to your console. As for the incompatible games, if you want to play them, most don't cost that much. I'd go for the SD2SNES, but sadly I don't have a SNES available at the moment. Will get one during the next year or so, but I have the same space problem as you do regarding my apartment's size :P
     
  17. CobraStr1ke
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    Member CobraStr1ke GBAtemp Regular

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    ^ oh that was J-Machine with the apartment size issue but yeah i hear ya as far as the space myself ( = ------> Thanks for the heads up guys and I appreciate your time helping me decide. I will eventually probably scoop a Super Famicom / or Pal SNES too since I love the look of the console. Theres also a video on youtube of someone that tried to restore it by cleaning but they said it was one that was far too yellowed to turn back. Regardless they hit it with flat black bumper spray, added a 50/60 Hz switch and added a blue LED. In my opinion it looks pretty good. ^_^

    Im not one for just painting consoles if they are fine but it looks far better then the one that yellowed so I would condone this (=
     
  18. gameBro

    Newcomer gameBro Member

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    right now I using RA for the Wii to play Neo Geo games because of loading times. I do own a Neo Geo Cd with 10 original games.
    I hooked up my Wii over RGB on a Phillips CM 8833 CRT Monitor from th 80s. The visuals are amazing on a CRT. Blazing Star just looks fantastic. You cant play these type of games on a flatscreen
     
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  19. J-Machine

    Member J-Machine Self proclaimed Pog champion

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    My information was given under the circumstances that you are american and that you had no plans to modify your system. from what I recall the mini only had the RF adaptor port to offer a video signal so the origional model would be preferred since you can use av cables.

    If you simply want to get the best image possible no matter the steps involved the snes had the ability to do SCART but that is mainly a european connection. for those in north america there are not too many options. Get the snes SCART cable and either: a) find a tv with a native SCART connector (rare and the tvs were expensive) or b) a scart to vga converter and a computer monitor.

    I have no idea where to get the snes/n64/gamecube SCART cable or even the converter box (I'm sure ebay or a uk online store would but shipping can be expensive. Unfortunatly this was the option I looked into the least for this very reason and because getting a crt monitor so I can still have scanlines was too hard and I didn't want to just use an lcd and loose them.

    Since you are getting a monitor though I suggest an rca-3.5mm adaptor (both ends female) like this: http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10429&cs_id=1042902&p_id=7191&seq=1&format=2 and a decent quality stereo computer speaker like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16836121032 ( I personally use these for my hdtv and computer setups) the plus about the adaptor is that it will allow you to use any kind of headphones, wireless or not, if it's late or any other time you wouldn't want to disturb people with your gaming sessions.
     
  20. J-Machine

    Member J-Machine Self proclaimed Pog champion

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    oh forgot that some newer crt tvs used component so a scart to component could also be done but I'm not a fan of that since you will be degrading the signal (still better than s-video but not as good as vga)

    A general rule of thumb for using adaptors is that the video will only be as good as it's weakest link.(an s-video to component will work the same as a scart to s-video for example)
     
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