Homebrew Can hacking open up the other 400 pixels?

[profi200]

It was worth a try, but a *real* 800x240 pixel mode in 2D doesn't exist.

 

[Foxi4]

It was worth a try, but a *real* 800x240 pixel mode in 2D doesn't exist.

It's probably done automatically by the SDK when requrested, profi200. If the screen supports it then there's no reason why it wouldn't be - remember, nobody codes in ASM these days.

 

[profi200]

It's probably done automatically by the SDK when requrested, profi200. If the screen supports it then there's no reason why it wouldn't be - remember, nobody codes in ASM these days.

If even yellows8 have not managed to get 800x240 pixels work, then show me how The only hope is, that he said, there are some unknown 3D related bits.

I this case it was a fast way to made this code. I can run C code too When it comes to coprocessor operations (MPU, MMU and some other stuff), you have no chance with C alone

 

[Yamagushi]

Yes you can in 2D mode.

Spoiler

No you can't. 2D mode is software rendered. Simply making the left and right pixels show the same image. You can still only see 400 pixels with each eye. You can't remove the physical parallax barrier.

 

[Foxi4]

If even yellows8 have not managed to get 800x240 pixels work, then show me how The only hope is, that he said, there are some unknown 3D related bits.

I this case it was a fast way to made this code. I can run C code too When it comes to coprocessor operations (MPU, MMU and some other stuff), you have no chance with C alone

Mmm-yeah, homebrew coding is nothing like coding with the official SDK and the official function reference - some things are automated, y'know.

I get what you mean though - the system is still being researched so it'll take some time. I'm only saying that it's "technically feasible".

No you can't. 2D mode is software rendered. Simply making the left and right pixels show the same image. You can still only see 400 pixels with each eye. You can't remove the physical parallax barrier.

The paralax barrier is a black and white LCD display which either displays black bars between the pixels of the screen underneath or it doesn't - it's not a physical lens, you can fully disable it.

 

[renes2]

We just need 1 Piece of Information:
Whats the resolution of the Upper Screen from Nintendo 2DS?

if its 800x240, then you know that Games could possible have this resolution.


or am i wrong?

 

[Foxi4]

We just need 1 Piece of Information:
Whats the resolution of the Upper Screen from Nintendo 2DS?

if its 800x240, then you know that Games could possible have this resolution.

or am i wrong?

The screen of the 3DS is 800x240, but that doesn't mean that you can natively use this resolution without using "haxx" if the hardware restricts you from doing so. Everything depends on the rendering context and its restrictions.

EDIT: Corrected, I didn't notice that the post speaks of the 2DS, as pointed out by WiiUBricker. The 2DS has just one screen, so everything depends on the pixel density. It's likely 400x240 since the system doesn't support 2D ergo doesn't need a higher resolution display.

 

[WiiUBricker]

The screen is 800x240, but that doesn't mean that you can natively use this resolution without using "haxx" if the hardware restricts you from doing so. Everything depends on the rendering context and its restrictions.

No it isnt. The 2DS cant possibly have a 800x240 resolution since it has only one plain 2D screen, meaning no parralax barrier, no own pixels for each eye and there is no visual difference between the top and the bottom screens.

 

[Foxi4]

No it isnt. The 2DS cant possibly have a 800x240 resolution since it has only one plain 2D screen, meaning no parralax barrier, no own pixels for each eye and there is no visual difference between the top and the bottom screens.

...and that proves what? Have you counted the pixels under a microscope? No? Alright then.

Just because there's no paralax barrier on that portion of the screen doesn't mean that the pixel density is any lower than that on the 3DS.

Besides, this isn't about the gimped 2DS, this is about the 3DS. There are obvious hardware differences between the two machines that need to be taken into account, but that doesn't mean that you cannot exploit the 3DS to your favor and simply merge two frames into one bigger picture.

 

[WiiUBricker]

...and that proves what? Have you counted the pixels under a microscope? No? Alright then.

Just because there's no paralax barrier on that portion of the screen doesn't mean that the pixel density is any lower than that on the 3DS.

Besides, this isn't about the gimped 2DS, this is about the 3DS. There are obvious hardware differences between the two machines that need to be taken into account, but that doesn't mean that you cannot exploit the 3DS to your favor and simply merge two frames into one bigger picture.

You quoted a post that talked about the 2DS, hence why I was talking about the 2DS. Get your shit together.
Again, the 2DS consists of just one, cheap and plain 2D LCD screen. It's not possible for the top of the screen to have a physical 800x240 resolution when there is absolutely no visual difference between both screens and the bottom screen of a 3DS. You are pretty stupid if you think I would count the pixels just to idiot-prove something to you. Count them yourself.

 

[Foxi4]

You quoted a post that talked about the 2DS, hence why I was talking about the 2DS. Get your shit together.

My brain must've automatically corrected that to "3DS" since the whole conversation is about the 3DS. My bad.

Again, the 2DS consists of just one, cheap and plain 2D LCD screen. It's not possible for the top of the screen to have a physical 800x240 resolution when there is absolutely no visual difference between both screens and the bottom screen of a 3DS. You are pretty stupid if you think I would count the pixels just to idiot-prove something to you. Count them yourself.

Scaling this, physical built vs. software that. That being said, you're probably right since the system isn't meant for 3D. Nevertheless, on the 3DS, the screen is 800x240 and is used as 2x400x240, which is what I meant. It would also do you good if you refrained from name-calling. In any case, I corrected the post above. Had I noticed it spoke of the 2DS, my response would've been different.

 

[WiiUBricker]

Nevertheless, on the 3DS, the screen is 800x240 and is used as 2x400x240, which is what I meant.

yeah, that's old news.

 

[Edgarska]

I know I'm late to the party, but I just wanted to add that I always thought games that used antialiasing when in 2D mode rendered in 800x240, kind of a subpixel rendering technique, even though there's 800 actual pixels, but to my surprise they render at 400x240, treating every 2 horizontal pixels as 1.
Please excuse the picture quality, it's an old phone.
As you can see, the pixels are paired up to form a square pixel, which can be more easily seen at the borders of the dark and light pixels.
I should mention this was taken from RE:Revelations, and the only other game I own that uses antialiasing is OoT 3D, so I will check that next, but I think it renders the same.

 

[MyJoyConRunsHot]

Kind of a late response but...The the consensus is that "in theory" it could work on the 3DS but needs more research?

 

[planetarian]

Just kind of thinking out loud:

I keep occasionally seeing people insisting that *at all times* each eye is only seeing half the pixels, when that's quite simply not the case, and it's very easy to demonstrate -- you see a moire pattern and tiny gaps between horizontal pixels in 3D mode (at least if your eyesight is good enough), yet when you turn off 3D with the slider, the moire pattern goes away and so do the gaps. In 2D mode, both eyes do indeed see both sets of pixels.

Also, 3D mode controls the left/right eyes' separate images with two separate framebuffers, which control alternating pixel columns. Presumably, the 3DS automates things such that, when 3D is off, the parallax barrier is disabled and only the first framebuffer is used for both sets.

This was demonstrated while testing an earlier homebrew application, wherein text was being rendered to screen but was only visible to the left eye in 3D mode -- the right eye simply held a black screen, and the second framebuffer had to be utilized in order to display the information to both eyes. Before the fix, however, both sets of pixels were filled in 2D mode -- even with the empty second framebuffer -- suggesting that the system is definitely automating the process.

So, at least for the time being, it seems that the only time you can address both framebuffers (and thus access the entire horizontal resolution) is when the parallax barrier is enabled.

The question I have in mind is whether this is controlled by the firmware or hardware... either way, we won't likely have the ability to configure this as we want to for the time being.

 

[Kakkoii]

What if you just used 3D mode to get the full resolution? Render the game at 800px wide, and split it into the two framebuffers. Or have the 3D camera positions only be a half-pixel distance apart.

 

[planetarian]

That's kinda how 3D mode works already when you turn the slider as low as it will go without turning 3D off.

The problem is, both eyes are still seeing separate images, due to the parallax barrier. There doesn't seem to be any method for manually disabling it without also disabling the second framebuffer.

 

[MOHRCORE]

No you can't. 2D mode is software rendered. Simply making the left and right pixels show the same image. You can still only see 400 pixels with each eye. You can't remove the physical parallax barrier.

Sounds pretty right, but notice the difference in 2D imege displayed in 3D mode (As I remember 3DNES displays it like that) and 2D image in 2D mode (ex. Pokemon X) It's not hard to see that in 3D mode you can clearly see the "spaces" between pixels, but in 2D mode pixels in a row look like just line without any spaces :/

 

[MyJoyConRunsHot]

Now that ninjhax is live, I'm going to bump this thread.

That's kinda how 3D mode works already when you turn the slider as low as it will go without turning 3D off.

The problem is, both eyes are still seeing separate images, due to the parallax barrier. There doesn't seem to be any method for manually disabling it without also disabling the second framebuffer.

I think what he meant was to use the exact same 400px wide image for both frame buffers instead of slightly different images, so that the resulting image (in theory)stays 2D, but both frame buffers are used.

 

[MyJoyConRunsHot]

Can the mods move this thread to the homebrew section? You guys split the original board up in two and put this one in the wrong section.