Gaming About cooling 360, do you recommend it?

[test84]

Hi,

There is a speech on doing cooling enhancements for xbox 360 for a while, there are like 5 methods that most people agree on and there is a local guy that can do it for me, I wondered if its necessary or advisable to do so. By the way my console is a "Falcon". He is gonna do X-clamp, shroud mod, making my fans 12v, cut the fence behind the console and one other thing.

I wonder if those actually help my console live longer.

-tnx

 

[PettingZoo]

I'm not sure about those, though I've heard that you can get fan replacements and add on fans which you can control via remote. Though in general preventing your console from overheating is to have it in a open type of area meaning not placed up against a wall or objects surrounding it closely.

 

[Joe88]

you shouldnt really do anything permanent to the system if you need to send it back to MS if a problem becomes unfixable
the x-clamp can be removed, the shroud mod might be removable as long as you just use to tape or something and not melt it into the other piece
I suggest not clipping the fence as I never heard of anyone doing that to improve cooling

 

[test84]

I don't have concern of sending it back to MS since we don't have any official MS here anyway. My concern is just its health.

 

[raulpica]

I would need to search around in something like 600 old posts of mine, to find my technical explaination of how it wouldn't really help.

Long story short, it's mostly the "de-heating" phase that kills 360s. Solder expands when in use, and get smaller again in the cooling phase. In that phase is more likely that solderings break up as they return to normal.

XBOX360s are just made like crap, there's nothing to do about it. If you've got a faulty one, it'll break nevertheless. If you've got one that's a bit better made than the others, it will survive.

Obviously do not chuck it in a uber-small place without air, as heat doesn't do any good to any electronic equipment in general.

Something like that. I've just awaken

 

[test84]

Is it that its bad for the console or it might do good? he's gonna charge like 36$ for those 5 things and thats not of a big deal but I'm not sure if its good or if it might hurt.

 

[raulpica]

Is it that its bad for the console or it might do good? he's gonna charge like 36$ for those 5 things and thats not of a big deal but I'm not sure if its good or if it might hurt.

Bad, I usually do not even touch the X-Clamps as it's sometimes worst to remove them. And the shroud mod is TOTALLY useless, as it's cutting the fence in the back of the console.

Doing these things will only make your 360 horrible to look at, and will pratically lower to 0 your chances of selling it (if it'll ever RRoD, which I hope won't happen to you) as a repairable XBOX (you can get quite a few money for a RRoDded 360, if you're lucky).

 

[test84]

Is it that its bad for the console or it might do good? he's gonna charge like 36$ for those 5 things and thats not of a big deal but I'm not sure if its good or if it might hurt.

Bad, I usually do not even touch the X-Clamps as it's sometimes worst to remove them. And the shroud mod is TOTALLY useless, as it's cutting the fence in the back of the console.

Doing these things will only make your 360 horrible to look at, and will pratically lower to 0 your chances of selling it (if it'll ever RRoD, which I hope won't happen to you) as a repairable XBOX (you can get quite a few money for a RRoDded 360, if you're lucky).

So what's your suggestion?
Why some people are so firm about doing these modifications and others totally disagree on it, even after 3 years of release of this *cough* refrigerator *cough*.

 

[Joe88]

Is it that its bad for the console or it might do good? he's gonna charge like 36$ for those 5 things and thats not of a big deal but I'm not sure if its good or if it might hurt.

Bad, I usually do not even touch the X-Clamps as it's sometimes worst to remove them.

well it fixed the no video error (well it wasn't an error, there was just no video output anymore) on my 360 (I got a Rrod 4 months before but new thermal past fixed that for a while...)

but if it aint broke, dont fix it

 

[test84]

Is it that its bad for the console or it might do good? he's gonna charge like 36$ for those 5 things and thats not of a big deal but I'm not sure if its good or if it might hurt.

Bad, I usually do not even touch the X-Clamps as it's sometimes worst to remove them.

well it fixed the no video error (well it wasn't an error, there was just no video output anymore) on my 360 (I got a Rrod 4 months before but new thermal past fixed that for a while...)

but if it aint broke, dont fix it

So is it possible for those cooling methods to hurt the console?
I'm concerned since I'm starting to see more and more Falcon RRoD's and the guy doing it for me is not charging THAT much.

I'm really looking forward to hear your replies.

 

[FAST6191]

I probably posted something like this before but it is my understanding rrod (and the similar faults that have since "replaced" it) is mainly a creep problem associated with the ball grid array (what the CPU and graphics use to connect to the board) which is not helped by a badly supported board (the motherboard bends which why a few of the better guides to repairing a 360 will tell you to support it) and weakly held clamps (there is a reason the clamps are replaced) as well as whiskers ( http://www.cinemag.biz/rohs.html ).
Bad joins/bad flow due to lack of lead in the solder (what the heating part of the RROD fixes aim to sort and towel fix is a poor version of) are also present in similar devices.
On top of this you have the usual computer chip issues (electromigration http://www.dwpg.com/content.php?contid=2&artid=68 and the like) but that really goes without saying.

A returned RROD 360 will often have an extra fan and a couple of replaced capacitors, some read into this that it fixes a fault while others would say litigation dodging (I favour a bit of both and neither).

Of course you also have a near complete lack of a widespread study into 360s (or at least a published one; I would like to think any internal research would be published widely enough to be leaked). A lot of what exists is based on small numbers and inferred from people fixing 360s and similar tech (graphics cards also fail by similar methods).

Heating issues are always present when it comes to high performance electronics but by and large these are minor compared to the ones above and it is usually user error that causes overheating (sticking it in a place without much airflow usually with a justification like "my PS2 worked fine there for years").

Onto pre-emptive fixing; your aim appears to be keep it for as long as possible and resale, if any, will be to someone who appreciates the issues so we are down to purely technical merits.
I would not like to call xclamp replacement; one the one hand it should hold things better, on the other creep rate is proportional to strain (which the new xclamp increases) which may not be a problem worth considering on a good BGA but a bad one (which many are) may cause failure. That is pure hypothesising and I have not done (and to my knowledge nor has anyone else) any tests on 360s or a suitable analogue with a sample size that could be considered good.

Long story short nobody has much of an idea about it all and there is as much pointless discussion and misinformation with good stuff buried in there as there is about bannning. I think I will leave it at keeping electronics cool is almost invariably a good idea and MS decided to either not know or not build electronics using accepted knowledge about how to build electronics, alas games are nice and they have some nice games.

 

[test84]

So FAST, do you agree that in worst case, he is not making things worse? or you think it might make things worse?

Since even microsoft is adding fans to RRoD'd 360's, I believe its safe (at least not making things worse) by giving him my console and make him do those coolings.

Do you agree?

 

[Trulen]

No.

Keepin' it short for you.

 

[test84]

And why is that?

 

[Joe88]

as far as Ive seen MS just replaces the whole mobo now with a newer one with both the gpu and cpu on 65nm die's

when a new mobo wasnt out they just added another a bigger heatsink in

 

[FAST6191]

OK then, no real basis in 360 experience but:

fans to 12V: do it but check the fans to make sure they are still working (12V can burn out fans quicker when they are somewhat cheaper like they are in the 360).

pre-emptive xclamp: if he will sell you them then so be it but I would not do it ahead of time. If however you get the early stages (freezing in games, video errors) turn it off immediately and get it done asap.

"other mod" will likely be a replaced thermal compound. Most 360s I have pulled apart had passable compound (better than most of the last few asus machines I pulled apart) and people that have tested it as part of xclamp fixes say only a few degrees is gained (if it was 10 then I would say do it, people say about 4 if you are lucky).

shroud: I am not sure it makes sense even in theory and done incorrectly air flow will become very odd (probably turbulent mixed with a bunch of undesirable effects like acting like a poor wing giving reduced airflow where it matters, effectively static points (see orifice plate) and other things).

Cut fence: I would only do this if you had a desire to add a sata lead for dumping games (I assume game rentals in Iran are not so common). If anything more dust would be my concern and from other conversations you have some nice traditional Iranian carpets which attract dust better than I can think of a suitable humorous simile for right now (personal experience of this one).

 

[Maz7006]

I would need to search around in something like 600 old posts of mine, to find my technical explaination of how it wouldn't really help.

Maybe this post raulpica?

QUOTE(raulpica @ May 2 2009, 03:54 PM) Here's why it happens, based on my personal observations in repairing a LOT of RROD'd 360s.

The X-Clamps (but not only them... it's the general mainboard design that is TOTALLY FLAWED) start to bend the motherboard, first slightly, then a lot more.
The motherboard fibreglass becames more duttile with high temperatures, and more prone than bending.

Be aware that when really heated up, the solderings won't broke, as they've got a bit of flexibility of their own (when heated).

The problems comes up with the cooling. When the motherboard cools, the thermal expansion reverts, thus breaking solder joints (which are now awkwardly bent by the now-flexed motherboard). Here's where the RROD originates.

It's probably not totally correct, but this should be the generic "why it happens".

In short... cooling will help, but not that much... It's pretty much random.

raulpica is right, RROD is completely random, heck some of my friends have had theirs for 2 years and they are fine, others for like 9 months and then it dies. Great console, just ruined by idiots that have no idea how to design a damn case, and choose the right hardware for the job. I dont see the logic behind inter-coolers, and 12v fans and such. Its just something you'll have to live with basically, heck if RROD does occur it would be easier to just repair it yourself, then do all the preparations to prevent it in the first place.