Hacking 3.4

[Heran Bago]

How can we make this more clear?
The agreement said they could before! They merely reworded it to be more inclusive!
This part of the agreement was always there!

I don't think it was there before.

(OLD)
"To ensure that your Wii Console is operating properly and efficiently, we may download updates, patches, upgrades and similar software to your Wii Console."
Does not include the phrase "without notifying you".

It does not include the phrase "while notifying you" either. I would say it was even implied before, because they say "we may."

 

[Sara-chan]

It does not include the phrase "while notifying you" either. I would say it was even implied before, because they say "we may."

Again, that part ("without notifying" in the previous policy) was, at the time, in the part about removing illegal things.
Which implies an update, how else would they have removed them with their firmware setup?

 

[Destian]

WC24 is just the name for everything what the Wii does on the internet (watching porn

)
Yes. However, there still needs to be something to tell it "download this when this server tells you to".
That would not be within WC24 itself, but if auto-updating capability ALREADY existed, we would already know by now.
Most of the major aspects of the Wii system firmware have been researched, after all.
If it was always there, it's really tucked-away. I don't discount the possibility they may have added it in this update.
But, AGAIN, their policy always gave them the right to 'remove illegal software' etc without notifying us.
For them to do so back THEN would also have required auto-updating.
That's why I personally am not very worried about this.

QUOTE(Destian @ Nov 18 2008, 02:32 PM) So it has a sophisticated task scheduler and downloads system updates, but absolutely does not have the ability to install those updates without consent?

If that page is your best source then I'm going to remain skeptical.

Going to show me the part where a remote source manages the task scheduler?
That function is used by games to download data in the background while the system is disabled.

Care to show me where it says it cannot be? I'm not the one claiming to be certain here. I'm not even saying it's likely that there will be auto-updating before 3.4 (or even after). I just think it's silly to tell people they are 100% safe while connected. I still haven't seen a source stating anything close to that.

 

[Sara-chan]

The site states updates speculatively since it's never be done.
I'm not claiming to be certain about it either.
I'm just saying that what information we have shows less reason to be worried than people think.
All I want is to help people and calm them down.
But fine, I'll stop talking about these things and get out of your way.
It is clear that they were 'allowed' by their policy to do it all along, though.
Just not as clearly as they're allowed to now.

Edit: Just to add, I have repeatedly said that the latest version has not been fully analyzed and COULD contain that ability.
I just remain optimistic about it personally.

 

[fogbank]

It does not include the phrase "while notifying you" either. I would say it was even implied before, because they say "we may."

Again, that part was previously in the part about removing illegal things.
Which implies an update, how else would they have removed them with their firmware setup?

"Download updates without notifying you" != "remove illegal software without notifying you".

Do you think that Nintendo would rely on "implied" meaning when creating a legally binding TOS agreement? "We may" implies "without notifying you"??? I don't think so.

"We may" simply means "we are allowed to under this agreement". The old TOS clearly states "In addition, we may disable unauthorized or illegal software that has been placed on your Wii Console without notifying you where necessary".

So "we may" (we are allowed to) download updates. "In addition" we may remove illegal software without your permission. Those are two separate legal statements.

The new TOS changes the download agreement to explicitly include the phrase "without notifying you". In a legally binding agreement very little can be "implied" and almost everything must be explicitly stated. Wording is everything.

 

[djdynamite123]

fogbankwell said, hopefully the end of the discussion of may this may that
Don't know why your all going mental about it, its there to update to, if not lets just wait for the dissembly of the menu, as its already started

If you were part of Nintendo would you not do this as well, I'm sure you all would.. It;s their own stupid fault for all this anyway, but at least they're helping prevent it from old 3.3 onwards, with the optional new update for PARENTALS again... lol

 

[Ozz465]

I just realizes i ask about usb 2.0 when it says beter sd support ,

must be still asleep. im meant to ask

Does that include HC support.

btw why all the damm fuss over if they can auto update from now on , lets wait and see what people report instead of arguing like a bunch of idiots .

 

[skawo96]

Question. Is HOMEBREW not legal? I mean, like the region free, the homebrew channel, twilight hack?
If it's legal (running software like GeckoOS or you know...homebrew games), then under statement

we may remove illegal software without your permission.

They can't do a shit to Homebrew Channel.


[maybe noobish]And with that, they can't remove the Backuploader, because it's on SD card, NOT on the console! And cIOS doesn't run the backups for itself...[/maybe noobish]

...or I think so.

 

[Sara-chan]

"Download updates without notifying you" != "remove illegal software without notifying you".

Do you think that Nintendo would rely on "implied" meaning when creating a legally binding TOS agreement? "We may" implies "without notifying you"??? I don't think so.

"We may" simply means "we are allowed to under this agreement". The old TOS clearly states "In addition, we may disable unauthorized or illegal software that has been placed on your Wii Console without notifying you where necessary".

So "we may" (we are allowed to) download updates. "In addition" we may remove illegal software without your permission. Those are two separate legal statements.

The new TOS changes the download agreement to explicitly include the phrase "without notifying you". In a legally binding agreement very little can be "implied" and almost everything must be explicitly stated. Wording is everything.

Okay, although companies have used bigger loopholes/vague spots than that in court before I've been told.
I have no proof, so if you know better, then that's fine. It's just my personal interpretation.
Even so, how do you propose they would have previously remove such software without any update?
Unless it was an update called by a different name, there doesn't seem to be explicit functionality for doing so.

 

[djdynamite123]

lets wait and see what people report instead of arguing like a bunch of idiots .

we already know what is prevents and adds

 

[Ozz465]

no i meant lets wait and see if there auto updates from only the newer 3.4 or all other versions .

 

[Sara-chan]

Question. Is HOMEBREW not legal? I mean, like the region free, the homebrew channel, twilight hack?
If it's legal (running software like GeckoOS or you know...homebrew games), then under statement

we may remove illegal software without your permission. They can't do a shit to Homebrew Channel.


[maybe noobish]And with that, they can't remove the Backuploader, because it's on SD card, NOT on the console! And cIOS doesn't run the backups for itself...[/maybe noobish]

...or I think so.

New Privacy Policy

may disable unauthorized or illegal software

It's covered. They have the ability to remove anything they didn't authorize.

 

[fogbank]

Going to show me the part where a remote source manages the task scheduler?
That function is used by games to download data in the background while the system is disabled.

Everything I see on the Wiibrew page concerning WiiConnect24 says to me it could be used to automatically update:

"WiiConnect24 allows the console to receive downloads even when the console isn't in active use, as long as it has a working connection to the Internet."
Download updates

"Sophisticated task scheduler, including periodic wakeup of either processor for maintenance tasks..."
Wakeup --> Check Nintendo server for updates --> Download and install updates. All as a "maintenance task."

Why would a remote source need to "manage the task scheduler"?

 

[skawo96]

Question. Is HOMEBREW not legal? I mean, like the region free, the homebrew channel, twilight hack?
If it's legal (running software like GeckoOS or you know...homebrew games), then under statement

we may remove illegal software without your permission. They can't do a shit to Homebrew Channel.


[maybe noobish]And with that, they can't remove the Backuploader, because it's on SD card, NOT on the console! And cIOS doesn't run the backups for itself...[/maybe noobish]

...or I think so.

New Privacy Policy

may disable unauthorized or illegal software

It's covered. They have the ability to remove anything they didn't authorize.

OK then. Nevermind me.

 

[Sara-chan]

Going to show me the part where a remote source manages the task scheduler?
That function is used by games to download data in the background while the system is disabled.

Everything I see on the Wiibrew page concerning WiiConnect24 says to me it could be used to automatically update:

"WiiConnect24 allows the console to receive downloads even when the console isn't in active use, as long as it has a working connection to the Internet."
Download updates

"Sophisticated task scheduler, including periodic wakeup of either processor for maintenance tasks..."
Wakeup --> Check Nintendo server for updates --> Download and install updates. All as a "maintenance task."

Why would a remote source need to "manage the task scheduler"?

Something could add it to the scheduler, yes. But it needs to be added to it to do so.
The task won't just magically appear without anything adding said task, will it?
It says "download updates?" speculatively in that article, and 3.4 may have scheduled such a task.
However, the functionality is not known to exist before 3.4 and the task is not scheduled before 3.4.
Sigh. Why can't I make it clear that I am saying nothing certain about 3.4, only speculating and saying why I'm skeptical?
But the functionality isn't there in any active form before 3.4 and that's all I tried to say.
Can't we stop arguing? It's tiring, and doesn't accomplish anything.
I have my opinions and you have yours. That's all it is right now on either side, opinions.
Time will tell which opinion is true, if either one is. We could all be wrong somehow, for all we know.
But everyone has a reason to believe a specific outcome is most likely.

 

[pnice]

Just my report:

I've been following through this thread all morning and when I went home to check my Wii there was no notification about a new update, no blue light on, etc. I logged in and I checked my version and it's still 3.3u I went into the message center and there are no messages from today or last night.

I have the TP modified save file still on my Wii, a few channels, play online a decent amount, etc. I updated my Wii using the method released online to add functionality back to the shop channel without doing the other stuff that blocked any IOS stuff. I'm not sure why it hasn't sent the update to me yet.

 

[brownmurder]

i think this should be locked, we all know 3.4 out there and theres no need to update and im bored of reading the same stuff page after page while i wait for geniuses like forsaken and requim and all the others to bring some awsome news, they will bring something new out and im sure they will make there own posts

just my thought

 

[zerof]

So who's forcing you to read it?

 

[Sorox]

My wii didnt update (thanks god). My lil bros playing animal crossing CF on Backup launcher 0.3g now.

 

[Defiance]

Ok... Let me get this straight:
1. If the Homebrew Channel is already installed, will homebrew still work?
2. Will Wiigator's Backup Loader still work? (If I already has his cIOS installed.)
3. Will Wads still be able to be installed? (Do I need a cIOS?)
4. Which cIOS do I need installed, Wiigator's or Waninkoko's?