Food Shortages, Wendy's takes Burgers off Menu

SG854 · May 19, 2020

Seliph said:
Ah, you're right about the 90k, my bad. That's still pretty appalling compared to India and Vietnam's numbers.

I agree you can make healthy foods with meat, you can make healthy burgers, that's not really the point. My main gripe with fast food isn't that it is unhealthy (though that is a factor), it's the way the industry treats its workers and customers. I don't want to type out an essay, but I will say that the working conditions in fast food restaurants are abysmal. Workers are over-worked and underpaid. There is no upwards mobility in the industry. The fast-food industry (like every other industry, but fast-food especially) is built on the exploitation of its workers and the perpetuation of poverty. Often people who face poverty have no food alternatives but cheap fast food. Not everyone has the luxury to eat fast-food "only sometimes". For some people, that is the only meal they can afford. This is the reason why obesity is such a problem in the US, just look up food deserts. But fast-food corps don't care, because they make billions a year off of their impoverished workers and customers.

TL;DR, fast-food is an industry of oppression and the perpetuation of poverty. It is an inhuman industry that should be destroyed.

HOWEVER, don't let what I've said distract you from my main point. The US is woefully behind other countries (India, Vietnam) in its handling (or mishandling) of Coronavirus. I think the main factors for this mishandling are corporate greed, uneducated populace, incompetent government (both federal and state-side), and ultimately Capitalism.

When you look at countries with socialized health-care (India, Cuba, Vietnam, etc), it's pretty self-evident that they've done a much better job than the US at combating Covid-19.

Just something to think about.

If in a food dessert fast food is the only meal they can afford, and you hope the whole industry crashes and burns, then where will they eat at? Where will they get food for cheap?

Seliph · May 19, 2020

SG854 said:
If in a food dessert fast food is the only meal they can afford, and you hope the whole industry crashes and burns, then where will they eat at? Where will they get food for cheap?

Again, I'm citing Vietnam for this (because they do most things better). Community gardens. Look it up. They're practically free and anyone has access to them. They provide much healthier alternatives to anything the fast-food industry puts out. I highly encourage you to do some research into it.

(copy and pasting this to reiterate my main point)
HOWEVER, don't let what I've said distract you from my main point. The US is woefully behind other countries (India, Vietnam) in its handling (or mishandling) of Coronavirus. I think the main factors for this mishandling are corporate greed, uneducated populace, incompetent government (both federal and state-side), and ultimately Capitalism.

When you look at countries with socialized health-care (India, Cuba, Vietnam, etc), it's pretty self-evident that they've done a much better job than the US at combating Covid-19.

Just something to think about.

SG854 · May 19, 2020

Seliph said:
Again, I'm citing Vietnam for this (because they do most things better). Community gardens. Look it up. They're practically free and anyone has access to them. They provide much healthier alternatives to anything the fast-food industry puts out. I highly encourage you to do some research into it.

(copy and pasting this to reiterate my main point)
HOWEVER, don't let what I've said distract you from my main point. The US is woefully behind other countries (India, Vietnam) in its handling (or mishandling) of Coronavirus. I think the main factors for this mishandling are corporate greed, uneducated populace, incompetent government (both federal and state-side), and ultimately Capitalism.

When you look at countries with socialized health-care (India, Cuba, Vietnam, etc), it's pretty self-evident that they've done a much better job than the US at combating Covid-19.

Just something to think about.

And community gardens can't be done while fast food places also co exist? Why haven't people started community gardens already in food dessert places?

Seliph · May 19, 2020

SG854 said:
And community gardens can't be done while fast food places also co exist? Why haven't people started community gardens already in food dessert places?

You realize the people in food deserts are poor, right? They can't just create a garden at their whim. 1. they don't have the money, 2. cities don't take to kindly to the creation of things like community gardens, they usually get destroyed (plus there's little room for community gardens to begin with in most impoverished areas).

Community gardens don't generate profit. The fast-food industry doesn't like that, they lobby against community gardens. Capitalists, in general, don't like community gardens because they don't generate a profit. Why would a capitalist government invest in the creation of community gardens if they make billions and billions of dollars off the fast-food industry?

So yes, "community gardens can't be done while fast food places also co exist".

Again, do your research. I doubt you would have these questions if you actually researched community gardens.

SG854 · May 19, 2020

Seliph said:
You realize the people in food deserts are poor, right? They can't just create a garden at their whim. 1. they don't have the money, 2. cities don't take to kindly to the creation of things like community gardens, they usually get destroyed (plus there's little room for community gardens to begin with in most impoverished areas).

Community gardens don't generate profit. The fast-food industry doesn't like that, they lobby against community gardens. Capitalists, in general, don't like community gardens because they don't generate a profit. Why would a capitalist government invest in the creation of community gardens if they make billions and billions of dollars off the fast-food industry?

So yes, "community gardens can't be done while fast food places also co exist".

Again, do your research. I doubt you would have these questions if you actually researched community gardens.

Then how is a community garden a solution when the fast food industry crashes and burns if the root of the problem is the capitalist gov, which is beyond the fast food industry? How would people get food in a food dessert?

Seliph · May 19, 2020

SG854 said:
Then how is a community garden a solution when the fast food industry crashes and burns if the root of the problem is the capitalist gov, which is beyond the fast food industry? How would people get food in a food dessert?

That's the crux of the problem. Community gardens are a socialist creation. They are the socialization of free food. Fast-food is a capitalist creation, it is the privatization of cheap food. These two creations fundamentally cannot coexist under capitalism (or socialism).

Community gardens ultimately cannot fix food deserts, because capitalism does not allow for the creation of community gardens, and food deserts are a capitalist creation.

Simply put, community gardens cannot be created under capitalism. Capitalism does not allow it. So what's the solution? How can we create community gardens?

Socialism.

If we cannot create community gardens under capitalism, then we will create community gardens under socialism.

Again, I cannot stress enough, do your research.

If you want info on how this kind of stuff works, read Peter Kropotkin's The Conquest of Bread. Or, if you don't like reading, you should check out this hour-long video series that basically reiterates all of Kropotkin's ideas, but in a more easily digestible form. This should answer any questions you have, or at least give you a general idea of where I'm coming from. Or, if you don't have enough time for either of those (which I guarantee you do have enough time), don't look at either of those links and remain ignorant, it's your choice.

This kind of thinking can be applied to other ideas, socialized health care, socialized housing, socialized labor, etc.

I know socialism is a big scary word, but that's only because most people don't understand it.

Do your research and I promise this will make sense.

BORTZ · May 19, 2020

Notice how Burger King still has burgers??? We've always been eating Impossible Whoppers.

Xzi · May 19, 2020

BORTZ said:
Notice how Burger King still has burgers??? We've always been eating Impossible Whoppers.

Nah just anus meat, same thing McDonald's serves. The Impossible Whopper tastes way better than anything meat-based on Burger King's menu.

UltraSUPRA · May 23, 2020

Xzi said:
Not sure where you're getting that figure from, we're still under 300k tests a day as of May 1st.

I did math a few pages ago.

Xzi said:
Which would overwhelmingly benefit the rich and corporations. The poor don't pay a whole lot in taxes, but they do rely on taxpayer-funded programs to survive.

A large amount of welfare recipients are more than capable of working.

Xzi said:
I think we got our wires crossed somewhere, that a was a reply in response to our discussion on under/over reporting the rate of new infections and deaths from COVID. China has been caught out under-reporting to make their handling of the pandemic look better, just as some states have.

How are you even sure if we're under-reporting?

Xzi said:
Do you really believe doctors and nurses don't get paid in Scandinavian countries? Somehow America is just about the last first-world nation on Earth that hasn't figured out a proper balance in regard to valuing human lives over profits for useless executives.

Xzi said:
I didn't say any of that, I was just stating a fact. We could definitely benefit by requiring higher standards for nursing homes and the people that work in them, though.

It's the governors that are forcing these patients into these nursing homes. Standards won't do much.

Xzi said:
Literally everybody is vulnerable until we have a vaccine. Contracting the virus is a roll of the dice no matter how young you are or what shape you're in. Even children are showing reactions to the virus which can cause heart attacks or other complications weeks after symptoms initially subside.

Hydroxychloroquine.

Oh, one more thing. That Mr. Dr. Prof. Fauci, PHD. guy you've been talking about said we need to reopen. https://www.foxnews.com/health/fauc...ome-orders-could-cause-irreparable-damage.amp

Xzi · May 23, 2020

UltraSUPRA said:
I did math a few pages ago.

There's no need to do any math lol, just source it. We were only doing 150k tests a day as of April 20, somehow I seriously doubt we increased testing capacity by six times in just one month.

UltraSUPRA said:
A large amount of welfare recipients are more than capable of working.

A large amount of welfare recipients DO work. They're just paid too little to live on, let alone support a family on.

UltraSUPRA said:
How are you even sure if we're under-reporting?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshua...-19-deaths-in-the-us-and-europe/#6196a0182d79

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/202...-covid-19-results-blurring-the-full-picture#1

https://www.tampabay.com/news/healt...-of-coronavirus-deaths-is-missing-some-cases/

UltraSUPRA said:

Canada is far from the only example of a country that does healthcare better than the US. Also PragerU is garbage, about as trustworthy as Rush Limbaugh after he's swallowed a fist full of pills.

UltraSUPRA said:
It's the governors that are forcing these patients into these nursing homes. Standards won't do much.

There is only so much room in hospitals, and only so many resources which can be spared. Of course improving the standards of nursing homes to be more like hospitals would reduce infection rates, that's just common sense. Might be too late for this pandemic, but it's never too early to start preparing for the next one.

UltraSUPRA said:
Hydroxychloroquine.

Is not a cure or a vaccine. It's an anti-malaria drug, and the most complete studies we have on it so far show it actually increases the likelihood of death when taken for COVID-19.

UltraSUPRA said:
Oh, one more thing. That Mr. Dr. Prof. Fauci, PHD. guy you've been talking about said we need to reopen. https://www.foxnews.com/health/fauc...ome-orders-could-cause-irreparable-damage.amp

Nobody was suggesting we never re-open, just that we do it safely. We are not meeting Dr. Fauci's standard for tests-per-day necessary to safely re-open, nor anybody else's standards.

notimp · May 24, 2020

UltraSUPRA said:
A large amount of welfare recipients are more than capable of working.

We are heading into a recession.

What work? People arent consuming as they did before the Covid crisis, industry hasnt innovated into anything meaningful in what feels like decades, and is focused on automation and digitization to outcompete low labor costs in the two most important trading partners 'of the future' for the US (India and Mexico), and the innovative sector everyone is focused on sells fake relationships, and fake 'you still matter socially, if you make virtual connections' to aging women.

Thats the booming industry, because we want to pacify as many people as possible with fake reputation.

Thats our society heading into the recession.

If you see something I dont, please let me know. I'd like to see any of the opportunity you are seeing.

When I read the usual consultancy agents predictions, every single one of them says, that new jobs are mostly to be had in fields that remove more jobs than they produce, and that their individual booms also will only last about ten years. Millennials were forced to overconsume (no savings), so recession didn't hit earlier, now its hitting and they have no savings. (Statistically speaking.)

States are pumping credit into the economy, that currently still benefites billionaires, and not SME's and has a tough time reaching the real economy. Again.

Oh yes, and oil is running out longterm, so be glad if you stil can enjoy 10 years of growth in some nice industry cutting white color jobs.

(Electricity comes out of the socket, and jobs out of the market complexity level, much..

)

Waygeek · May 25, 2020

SG854 said:
No, never said that.

You DIRECTLY implied it. Go and learn about implicating statements and then deal with it. God bless ya.

SG854 said:
I know myself and what I meant more then you. Unless you know me more then I know myself.

I am well aware of your laughable politics from your other posts. And if you think we can't tell you're pushing Gump's 'let's kill another 50,000 just so we can reopen' rhetoric you're hopelessly naive

SG854 said:
If in a food dessert fast food is the only meal they can afford, and you hope the whole industry crashes and burns, then where will they eat at?

Exhibit A... at least... I think it is... because this ain't English.

SG854 · May 25, 2020

Waygeek said:
You DIRECTLY implied it. Go and learn about implicating statements and then deal with it. God bless ya.

I am well aware of your laughable politics from your other posts. And if you think we can't tell you're pushing Gump's 'let's kill another 50,000 just so we can reopen' rhetoric you're hopelessly naive

Exhibit A... at least... I think it is... because this ain't English.

Oh wow, late response. I was already over it.

Do you want to understand people or do you want to argue with people? That is a big problem with you I noticed from you talking with other people here. And it's going to get you into alot of trouble getting along with people. I just hope you don't act like this outside of the internet when you speak to people in person.

It's like that naggy bitching girlfriend who just wants to argue all the time. Just wants to argue argue argue without understanding what the person is trying to tell you.

I already told you what I meant. And you just want to argue.

Waygeek said:
I am well aware of your laughable politics from your other posts. And if you think we can't tell you're pushing Gump's 'let's kill another 50,000 just so we can reopen' rhetoric you're hopelessly naive

And are you basing this on posts I made weeks ago? People opinions change all the time. What I wrote here 2 years ago or a few weeks ago may or may not be my opinion today. That's how the scientific method works right? You update and change your opinions based on new information that you find.

Earlier I said I agree with what notimp said.
And No, we should follow what scientists say when its OK to open up the economy with the least amount of damage. And we should freely talk about it, question what they say, then debate to see if your own perspectives change. That's the only way people can figure things out.

Seriously I have no Idea what the fuck you are arguing about since the stuff you are accusing me of believing I don't actually believe. So I don't know what fuck and I'm like uh ok?

UltraSUPRA · May 27, 2020

Xzi said:
There's no need to do any math lol, just source it. We were only doing 150k tests a day as of April 20, somehow I seriously doubt we increased testing capacity by six times in just one month.

I think getting tests put is a top priority. Besides, don't you remember when there were tests sent out that were infected?

Xzi said:
A large amount of welfare recipients DO work. They're just paid too little to live on, let alone support a family on.

It's based on how hard you work. The welfare recipients who do work often don't work very hard because they're already getting more than enough money to sustain their families...and we're paying for it.

Xzi said:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshua...-19-deaths-in-the-us-and-europe/#6196a0182d79

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/202...-covid-19-results-blurring-the-full-picture#1

https://www.tampabay.com/news/healt...-of-coronavirus-deaths-is-missing-some-cases/

It makes perfect sense to only include comfirmed cases. It's better than overblowing the numbers and holding back society longer; that has had a far more devastating impact than Flu Bear would.

Xzi said:
Canada is far from the only example of a country that does healthcare better than the US.

Give me one example of a """""free""""" healthcare system where you don't have to wait months for operations.

Xzi said:
Also PragerU is garbage, about as trustworthy as Rush Limbaugh after he's swallowed a fist full of pills.

Did you even watch the video?

Xzi said:
There is only so much room in hospitals, and only so many resources which can be spared.

Here's a benefit to our healthcare system: just go to a different hospital.

Xzi said:
Of course improving the standards of nursing homes to be more like hospitals would reduce infection rates, that's just common sense. Might be too late for this pandemic, but it's never too early to start preparing for the next one.

Okay. What happens when an old homeless person gets Flu Bear and, under that free healthcare plan, can't go to a hospital?

Xzi said:
Is not a cure or a vaccine. It's an anti-malaria drug, and the most complete studies we have on it so far show it actually increases the likelihood of death when taken for COVID-19.

I've never heard of Chron. It could easily just be clickbait. Besides, Trump took it daily for weeks and he's still perfectly fine.
That article also mentioned that there was a cure.

Xzi said:
Nobody was suggesting we never re-open, just that we do it safely. We are not meeting Dr. Fauci's standard for tests-per-day necessary to safely re-open, nor anybody else's standards.

What if it's too late before those standards are met?

Xzi · May 27, 2020

UltraSUPRA said:
I think getting tests put is a top priority. Besides, don't you remember when there were tests sent out that were infected?

I don't understand the point you're trying to make. One manufacturer fucked up so we should just stop testing? No, simply use a different test manufacturer.

UltraSUPRA said:
It's based on how hard you work. The welfare recipients who do work often don't work very hard because they're already getting more than enough money to sustain their families...and we're paying for it.

It has nothing to do with how hard they work. A full-time job is a full-time job, and most minimum-wage positions are much more strenuous than desk work. When corporations under-pay their employees, the taxpayers have to make up for it. So get pissed at those corporations, not the people struggling to make ends meet.

UltraSUPRA said:
It makes perfect sense to only include comfirmed cases.

We don't have the testing capacity to confirm every case, that should be obvious by this point in the conversation. There's a 99.9% chance that anybody who dies from a lack of oxygen right now had the Rona, so advocating for only counting them if they tested positive is the same thing as advocating for under-reporting. Which would make us no better than China.

UltraSUPRA said:
Give me one example of a """""free""""" healthcare system where you don't have to wait months for operations.

There have been plenty of instances of people waiting months for operations in the US, while still being forced into bankruptcy to pay for them. You can't just make healthy organs magically appear from thin air, so you could find this type of anecdotal evidence anywhere in the world.

UltraSUPRA said:
Did you even watch the video?

No, for the same reason I don't watch other sensationalist garbage like cable news.

UltraSUPRA said:
Here's a benefit to our healthcare system: just go to a different hospital.

Did you forget we're in the middle of a pandemic for a moment? Many hospitals are overwhelmed, and there are plenty of areas in the US where you only have one hospital for every hundred square miles or so.

UltraSUPRA said:
Okay. What happens when an old homeless person gets Flu Bear and, under that free healthcare plan, can't go to a hospital?

What do you mean "can't go to a hospital?" Even without any healthcare coverage you can still go to a hospital as it stands now, it's just that the taxpayers end up footing the bill in the long run. The only difference with universal coverage is that the government negotiates that bill down to a reasonable cost, saving taxpayers money.

UltraSUPRA said:
I've never heard of Chron. It could easily just be clickbait. Besides, Trump took it daily for weeks and he's still perfectly fine. That article also mentioned that there was a cure.

The study was done by The Lancet Medical Journal, which is a respected source. You're free to look it up directly without going through any news site. And this might shock you, but Trump is full of shit. He never took it, a narcissist like him would never risk his own life like that. It's widely speculated he has stock in the manufacturer of hydroxychloroquin, and that his push for others to take it is just another money-making scheme.

There is no mention of a cure in the article, that would make national news. The fastest a vaccine has ever been created was around 5 years, so even a 1 year timeline is extremely optimistic.

UltraSUPRA said:
What if it's too late before those standards are met?

If the government had acted properly from the beginning of this pandemic and froze all obligations for individuals and small businesses, there would be no such thing as "too late." It's only because America treats our workforce as disposable, unlike the rest of the world, that we're being given the dystopian choice of returning to work and exposing ourselves to the virus versus staying home and running out of food/necessities.

Food Shortages, Wendy's takes Burgers off Menu

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