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Is it still necessary to make a closed gaming system?

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Hello my FAVORITE forum! We've been talking about hacking, dumping and everything that revolves around "unlocking" your device for years.
But after seeing the steam controller go sold out almost immediately and it is a product that can easily be replaced with something else.

Do closed console systems still have a reason to exist?

It was seen as a slightly more open system, I'm talking about the Xbox dev mode, it practically cooled the desire of all the major hackers on the system.

What do you think? if the next Nintendo or Sony console has a free development community? I think everyone would buy it!

Ciao! NaX
 
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naxil said:
Do closed console systems still have a reason to exist?
Click to expand...
Yea to prevent piracy, or there will be no zero software sales.

Steam controller will FOREVER blow my mind because it's an utterly useless peripheral on PC. Deck was to sucker console kids into their ecosystem and away from Nintenderrrr.

Xbox dev kits were under NO circumstances to reach the general public...

Now Sony did kinda best of both worlds with PS3 when it allowed Linux, web browsing, and all of that on early FW. Why M$ didn't add something like that to the Box? How ELSE will they sell Windows to people who needed a non-gaming OS? Plus I'm sure they had helluva deals with major computer manufacturers.
 
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It seems pointless at this point in time.
A PC can be much cheaper, more powerful than, say, an XBOX One or a Nintendo Switch 2.

I'm thinking Consoles are getting outperformed by custom PC... and shops like Steam are certainly taking a huge chunk of console's market.

Why would I, for instance, spend 15K MXN in a Nintendo Switch 2, when for 13K MXN I could get a decent Gaming Laptop from 2020, and emulate not only Switch games, but also have access to Steam (which has almost 90% of Switch's catalogue not counting exclusives which can easily get emulated) or why would I spend 13K in an XBOX One that will get outdated 2 years after launch?

Developers are also moving out of Consoles, it's no surprise the PS5 has almost no games, Microsoft not caring for XBOX because they have PC and Nintendo... well they're living out of Pokémon.

So no, there's no point in owning a Console, nor having "unlocked" / "open" Console, because for the price of a "last gen" Console, you can get a Gaming Laptop that will outperform console's in both specs, catalogs and possibilities of homebrew development.
 
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The steam controller selling out isn't an indication of anything except maybe that valve is more popular than they can scale. But all the steam decks combined have sold less than eg the wiiu, and despite Linux being "more popular than ever" it still hovers around the 5% market share. It has more potential to grow, yes, but... That's about it.

More important will be the actual price of the steam machine. Valve can't afford to sell at a loss without it becoming a money sink, so it has to be priced at a higher point than consoles. Saying that it relies on Steam sales is false : the audience are those who already have a(large) steam library. Heck... I've only been able to put an order for a controller because I've been active since before April. Meanwhile, i can just go to a brick and mortar store and buy any Nintendo and Sony product. Valve isn't there, and likely never will.

Now... Why can't valve (or anyone, really) afford selling an open source console at a loss? Because companies rely on pc's as well. Not going to lie: if valve makes the mistake of selling steam machines at a lower cost than similar pc's+windows license, I'll buy dozens, spool them through my company's intune image and have it used by our stores and employees without anyone ever seeing the steam store. The neutral form factor, but with ram prices they way they are we can't afford not to.

Edit: to add some irony: I'm currently doing the reverse: I've created around 5 or 6 bazzite "consoles" from throwaway office pc's (gotta thank Microsoft for their arbitrary windows 11 requirements :p) . Not for for regular gaming, but great for retro and indie games. I even put one in the office. :D
 
Last edited by Taleweaver,
naxil said:
Hello my FAVORITE forum! We've been talking about hacking, dumping and everything that revolves around "unlocking" your device for years.
But after seeing the steam controller go sold out almost immediately and it is a product that can easily be replaced with something else.

Do closed console systems still have a reason to exist?

It was seen as a slightly more open system, I'm talking about the Xbox dev mode, it practically cooled the desire of all the major hackers on the system.

What do you think? if the next Nintendo or Sony console has a free development community? I think everyone would buy it!

Ciao! NaX
Click to expand...
Only 8% of MSFT's revenues come from gaming, so they do not need Xbox consoles to succeed. But Sony and especially Nintendo have no choice whatsoever. They make a FORTUNE from their exclusive stores and will never willingly give that up or make an open system. That would just be next-level dumb for them to do.

As for the Steam controller selling out, that is meaningless without knowing how many they actually sold, obviously. I guarentee it is a small number. And unless you are addicted to the Steam ecosystem and love the feel of the ageing SteamDeck's controls, their controller is pointless. It will be ignored by 98% of gamers. As for Linux: 🤣 I've been hearing that 💩 since 1997. It's as much or a joke today as it was then.
 
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They will be made as long as people keep their "Console has no exclusives so it's not worth it"-mentality. People are shooting themselves into the foot and even bragging publically about it...
 
Hell, "open" consoles are ALL the e-waste that china pumps out almost daily, but who honestly buys any of that junk besides people abysmally too broke for anything better?
 
Skv0ra said:
Hell, "open" consoles are ALL the e-waste that china pumps out almost daily, but who honestly buys any of that junk besides people abysmally too broke for anything better?
Click to expand...

Say what you will about DRM, yeah. Since when has a console without at least token "security" been widely liked and successful?

In the early generations, before lockout mechanisms, there was still the logistics of manufacturing physical bootlegs.
 
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If Steam Deck was more widely available than only by ordering through Steam (in most regions at least), perhaps it would have made a much bigger impact due to what it offered for the relatively low price. I can only imagine that many console players didn't have Steam accounts eligible to purchase one.

I can't imagine Steam Machine to make that large of an impact as it will be more expensive by a long shot, but I'm sure it will have many fans (who am I kidding, it can only fit one).

As for whether closed systems have a purpose any more, they don't! The days of consoles being the superior way to play are long gone. Having a PC build comparable to the most performant console at present can actually be cheaper, and while it's likely the next console offerings will surpass the price-to-performance ratio, it's necessary to replace the entire console when on the PC side, it's enough to only upgrade necessary components. It's also not necessary to have a particularly powerful PC to enjoy the latest games if they don't have particularly high hardware requirements, and multiplayer is free.

As for me, I don't mind tinkering with old consoles if it means I own them, even if it's been a pointless hobby from the start. More of an obsession, really. Even on the handheld side, the only thing I don't like about PC handhelds is their comparative weight and bulk, but there's otherwise no real reason for me to use anything else.
 
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Yes, they will not die anytime soon.

I love my PC and Steam Deck but I prefer the easy of use of Nintendo Switch and Switch 2 for example (also PS5, but waiting 2h for a game to install honestly kills the mood).
 
lightwo said:
If Steam Deck was more widely available than only by ordering through Steam (in most regions at least), perhaps it would have made a much bigger impact due to what it offered for the relatively low price.
Click to expand...
Doubt it since it was predominantly aimed at already rich PC folk who even knew what Steam was to enable portability. So unless you traveled for work endlessly and mostly via public transit while magically not already owned a decent laptop to kill time - and that cuts the percentage even further. Deck was like a console pro controller that cost 2x as much as standard with features only a fraction of the playerbase actually needed or wanted/esports.
 
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I say this, I know it's absurd but I say it anyway: When you buy a smart TV that is SONY, PHILIPS or another brand, do you find NETFLIX, HULU, AMAZON inside? Couldn't it be the same for gaming in the future?
 
naxil said:
Hello my FAVORITE forum! We've been talking about hacking, dumping and everything that revolves around "unlocking" your device for years.
But after seeing the steam controller go sold out almost immediately and it is a product that can easily be replaced with something else.

Do closed console systems still have a reason to exist?

It was seen as a slightly more open system, I'm talking about the Xbox dev mode, it practically cooled the desire of all the major hackers on the system.

What do you think? if the next Nintendo or Sony console has a free development community? I think everyone would buy it!

Ciao! NaX
Click to expand...
Considering the variety of gaming handhelds (both Android and x64 Windows/Linux based) available, and with the Steam Machine around the corner, which will no doubt be followed by a wave of similar devices from other brands... Not really.
Manufacturers love their closed ecosystems, they love their exclusives and being able to take a cut of every sale.
None of that benefits consumers though, we'd be better off if all games were released for more open platforms.
 
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Every company wants to pull people into their ecosystem where they will be stuck and can be nickel-and-dimed, so closed platforms will always be a thing. It is not "necessary" but it's just how it works. Open gaming systems don't keep users and developers locked into your platform and dependent on your services, and you don't get money off publishing licenses, development licenses, and monthly subscriptions to online content. Open systems are just hardware, and once sales slow down you stop making money. A closed system lets you have exclusive titles, you use exclusives to get people to buy your hardware, and you need people to buy your hardware to create a userbase, to attract publishers, to get more titles, to attract more people to pay monthly subscription to your services, and once the ball gets rolling you're set. (Or you never reach a critical mass and then it's back to the drawing board. That's the other side of the coin.) You keep making money long after the sales of your console have slowed down to a trickle. That's why closed proprietary systems are a thing and will be for a while still.
 
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naxil said:
[...]
But after seeing the steam controller go sold out almost immediately and it is a product that can easily be replaced with something else.
Click to expand...
That's hardware, and it serves no other purpose than controlling software (games), without good software (games) to play with, its useless.

naxil said:
Do closed console systems still have a reason to exist?
Click to expand...
Absolutely.
Otherwise, games sales would sink into the drain and even the most powerful hardware would be a piece of paperweight. Some of the "most powerful" recent consoles still are though.
naxil said:
It was seen as a slightly more open system, I'm talking about the Xbox dev mode, it practically cooled the desire of all the major hackers on the system.
Click to expand...
That was not an open system, because you still have to complain with their use rules. Providing access to a certain feature under the term of not being allowed to do as you see fit, is not freedom.

The STDBox was of no interest of being hacked, mainly because most -if not all- it's games were/are already available on PC. And even so, most were crap remakes of a remake, there's nothing new nor interesting on that platform.

naxil said:
What do you think? if the next Nintendo or Sony console has a free development community? I think everyone would buy it!

Ciao! NaX
Click to expand...
Indie devs are the most free -as in freedom- community in existence. Devs from major companies dream of having the same freedom of creating what they want instead of what a business man dictates them to.

Nintendo has the biggest Indie dev community on their consoles, mainly as a result of their success.

Sadly, not all devs know how to create top quality games, and many games are pure crap, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen on another consoles.
 
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ChibiMofo said:
Only 8% of MSFT's revenues come from gaming, so they do not need Xbox consoles to succeed. But Sony and especially Nintendo have no choice whatsoever. They make a FORTUNE from their exclusive stores and will never willingly give that up or make an open system. That would just be next-level dumb for them to do.

As for the Steam controller selling out, that is meaningless without knowing how many they actually sold, obviously. I guarentee it is a small number. And unless you are addicted to the Steam ecosystem and love the feel of the ageing SteamDeck's controls, their controller is pointless. It will be ignored by 98% of gamers. As for Linux: 🤣 I've been hearing that 💩 since 1997. It's as much or a joke today as it was then.
Click to expand...
Agree with the first part, not with the second. Linux gaming doesn't have the player numbers, but they've got roughly everything else.
* in the nineties, less than 5% of games were playable. Nowadays, it's less than 5% that ISN'T playable
* drivers and ease of use were a pain on Linux once. These days, I can(and have) create a fully working console-like pc without using the terminal once
* MS has gambled way too much on ai, making windows 11 a slog for regular use. Meanwhile, i can stop and resume playing on my Linux device with a single click of a button.

Yes, there's still only like 5% of gamers on Linux. But my claim is that those 95% are where they are only by force of habit, not by choice. And to me, that tells me the market for gaming pc's and laptops supporting windows is going to crash out in the near future.
 
When it comes to consoles, Nintendo has the biggest reason for the existence of closed platforms. Their own games. Folks buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo's games. Folks buy the other consoles generally for 3rd-party, which in turn is shared heavily with the open PC platform.
 
I think the belief was that because everything is 95% digital, the game hardware itself is no longer the divider between which profits are captured by whichever publisher, as the Digital Rights secure that or something.

But I think what they're finding is that if they're a console manufacturer and publisher, and they are trying to market games, they just really don't sell as much on non-exclusive platforms, as they did when they were exclusive. In some cases this is false I guess, but I do think there's something to the fact that the market is very saturated and there's a much better marketing campaign in saying "God of War, you NEED A PS5 for this game!" than releasing in everywhere and going "God of War is here"

In the sense that, if it's everywhere, it will sell, but it will be drowned out by many other franchises that proliferate the market, but on a PS5, Sony owns the store you access on your device etc, they get to put it at No. 1 and then it sells. While on Steam, it's entered the rest of the democracy and is quickly glossed over by more people who go "yeah, I'm more in the mood for these other 5 top of the week games"

I call this the Sonic principle. Where you're only relevant as long as you're associated with the console, and after that there's a clear drop-off in investment towards it, due to not being a system-seller, and thus not having the budget that would've come with being a system seller.

So yeah, I think there's still space for exclusives but with everyone owning 7 different Handheld PCs, and games not being physical no more, I think at some point there'll be more exclusivity in a different sense. Many have pointed out that Fortnite is an entire ecosystem of its own. A "Platform" game (not to confuse with platformer) and there is a lot of digital exclusivity in the licensed deals with all the cameos and themed events. I hope that won't stick though. It's like watching Space Jam 2 or Mario Galaxy Movie, where it's literally just the company shilling its IP jumping from 1 thing to another. I didn't have the nerve to say "Can we stop watching?" when I watched Space Jam 2 with my family.
 
naxil said:
Hello my FAVORITE forum! We've been talking about hacking, dumping and everything that revolves around "unlocking" your device for years.
But after seeing the steam controller go sold out almost immediately and it is a product that can easily be replaced with something else.

Do closed console systems still have a reason to exist?

It was seen as a slightly more open system, I'm talking about the Xbox dev mode, it practically cooled the desire of all the major hackers on the system.

What do you think? if the next Nintendo or Sony console has a free development community? I think everyone would buy it!

Ciao! NaX
Click to expand...
I think closed systems still have a place, mainly because they make it easier for companies to control security, performance, and the overall user experience. That said, I do like the idea of offering an official development mode like Xbox did. It gives hobbyists and indie developers room to experiment without turning the entire platform into a free-for-all.

A more open ecosystem could definitely attract creative communities. We've seen how user-generated content and modding can keep games alive for years. Even communities around projects like Among Us Mod APK show how much players enjoy customizing and expanding their gaming experiences.

The ideal solution for me would be a balance: keep the core system secure for regular users, but provide official tools and documentation for developers and enthusiasts who want to create their own software.
 

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