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Switch emulator Citron is being discontinued and Ryubing enters maintenance mode

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Citron, one of the big main 3 Nintendo Switch emulators that came out of Yuzu's downfall is sadly being discontinued.

Yesterday on Citron's subreddit. one of Citron's moderators, lockhart1433, announced that the Citron emulator will be discontinued due to internal conflicts, citing one of the major problems being that one of the lead developers got doxxed, leaking the real name and location of the developer, as well as still some lingering issues with the whole fallout from last year between Citron and some of its developers, which led to the creation of the Eden emulator, as well as the controversy when they switched how their internal Discord server operated, which happened alongside it.

This decision seems to be a culprit of all the previously mentioned topics, and now all of Citron's servers and websites have all been taken down, including their own self-hosted repository.

lockhart1433 said:
Citron has been discontinued after the recent drama involving eden. To keep a long story short, theres a new .tar file floating around called the citron files. Inside of these are zephyrons full name, location and camilles side of events mirroring the fall of citron post from last year. To add fuel to the fire, scubasteve a verified admin of citron may have been the one adding fuel to this. The files basically summarize every event leading up to camille getting a cease and desist from zephyron due to accepting donations claiming to be the lead developer. Everything died down for a year and now its back again. So i guess eden wins. Camille wins and is to blame for this. No more stolen commit posts. No more reverse engineering to improve switch emulation for everyone. Now all eyes are on you to step up since LotP is the only one with the knowledge. Reminder that totk and botw wouldnt work on 20.0 without their knowledge. So we bid you all goodbye and await the next project or maintainer to step up. The drama is now...finally...over and we are free.
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Not only that, but also one of the other main 3 Switch emulators, Ryubing, will also change, with the main developer GreemDev no longer maintaining the Ryubing project. However, the Ryubing emulator will still remain in "maintenance mode" by other users, like LotP, but GreemDev will no longer be involved in the development of Ryubing going forward.

GreemDev said:
Ryubing is not going anywhere. There's a lot of things going on in the scene right now, and I want to take the time to clarify some things. --- It is with a heavy heart that I announce that GreemDev is no longer maintaining the project. He's moved on to bigger and better things, and we support him in this decision. LotP and I will be spearheading the project moving forward, and while we do plan to make some changes, we can't promise anything more than what Ryubing currently is. This is not a phoenix project, this is a maintenance project, and we are sticking to those limited goalposts. We are not discontinuing development, but we do need help -- if you want to contribute, please reach out tofor an account on our GitLab.thanks for sticking it out ~ GreemDev

It is also with a heavy heart that I announce that the Citron project has discontinued. Zeph has taken the project down and left Discord. As this is a pretty hot topic, please refrain from discussing the happenings unless you are knowledgeable about the situation (see Rule #3, no drama, please). We are monitoring the scene for changes, and we are aware that forks will likely pop up. We are working with developers on a solution, but in the meantime, I strongly advise you all to be vigilant and wait for an announcement regarding this. --- With this being said, you may see a lot of new members join the server. Please say hello and welcome them to our little hellscape. To our newcomers, hello and welcome to Ryubing! I

and make yourself familiar with our policies, they're a bit different than what you might be used to. If you have questions, you are welcome to ask -- all I ask in return is that you are respectful. This is a difficult time for all of us, but we'll get through it. If you want to help us out, we are looking for contributors, and boosts help the server a lot! We are about to lose our server tag if we don't get more boosts, and I know many of you want to see the gradient role colors come back.

We're also opening ⁠chat for notes and suggestions from the community on what we should work on, and we're going to be accepting applications for a new helper role. You can message me directly if you're interested (will require verification). Thanks for sticking around, and for reading the giant text wall. love you guys.
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It is important to note though, that this is not related to the recent wave of DMCA's sent by Nintendo on GitHub earlier this week, as these decisions were made mainly due to internal conflicts and events unrelated to that wave of DMCAs, more so given how all 3 Switch emulators do not operate within Github and rather self-host their own source code.

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The Real Jdbye said:
I don't think you understand the simple fact that people need money to pay for food and living expenses. You're probably still in school, so you're used to getting everything handed to you for free, but that isn't how the real world works. Somebody has to pay for everything.

Adults don't have unlimited free time, and most of them have families they want to spend time with and not just work 24/7 until they drop dead from exhaustion.

Because open source work is largely unpaid, they have to do that work in their free time, which takes time out of other things they could be doing, and they don't have as much time to spend on the open source project as they maybe would like, because of the paid job they *actually* have to be doing, otherwise they would be on the streets.

Taking donations allows them to work a part time job and put more time into the open source project while still making ends meet. And maybe, they might get enough donations to make that their full time job, which is nothing but a benefit to the users of the program.

As a result, we get a better quality emulator than we otherwise would have had, in fact it's quite possible the emulator would not exist in a usable state at all were it not for donations, because of the massive effort it takes just to get there.
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Like, you're obviously not wrong. But I'm the retro gaming and emulation space, there are many bad players.
With high interest comes higher amounts and more attention from the rights owners who can also use financial gain as an argument for infrigement.

I think the real issues are that emulation does not have the legal protection it requires and that console generations are a thing of the past. Quite frankly, if someone has the skills to backwards engineer an OS, they should be able to be paid for it. It's a problem that Nintendo don't higher these people to make the Switch 2 actually bloody run Switch 1 games properly for starters.
 
Chellarina said:
Like, you're obviously not wrong. But I'm the retro gaming and emulation space, there are many bad players.
With high interest comes higher amounts and more attention from the rights owners who can also use financial gain as an argument for infrigement.

I think the real issues are that emulation does not have the legal protection it requires and that console generations are a thing of the past. Quite frankly, if someone has the skills to backwards engineer an OS, they should be able to be paid for it. It's a problem that Nintendo don't higher these people to make the Switch 2 actually bloody run Switch 1 games properly for starters.
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How many switch 1 games have you encountered the don't run well on switch 2?
 
Sucks that doxxing is even involved with this; I hope the dev talents can at least go into the other emu projects so we can have one or two big stable projects rather than a handful of fragmented ones.

I imagine it's at least somewhat intimidating for the average person when there are so many choices. Few people will have the patience to figure out what's best for them.
 
ViRGE said:
It would be great to see that get on the same level as 3DS emulation.
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isn't 3DS emulation still in it's early stages??
Post automatically merged:

HideoKojima said:
Why did you leak his info tho? Not very nice of you
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Probably shouldn't say stuff like that without providing evidence
 
Last edited by ChronoCrossfangirl2002,
Fyrus said:
If it's early stages, then man, we are eating quite good
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Aye. 3DS emulation isn't perfect (and I'm a bit surprised it isn't better, TBH) but it's doing pretty well. You can go play most of the console's big releases without any real issues.

Vita emulation has come a long way in 5 years. But a lot of games still have issues, and compatibility with the vastly faster Vulkan backend is even worse. Most of the exclusive (i.e. not a port) launch day titles still have noticeable graphical artifacts.
 
BlusterBong said:
So besides the non-issue of Nintendo hitting forks on github (because people still havent learn't thier fuckin' lesson with emulating a currently selling device and putting it on GITHUB for the world to see, btw), the Switch Emulation scene is one again crippled by it own choices, because time is a flat circle.

Nintendo really did kill the hydra and cut off every possible limb if the community could only do just the equivelent of performing a half assed revival ritual that only made the hydra try to kill itself with all of this drama that happens every minute something not done to it by the Big N happens more or less dragging emulation progress by the fucking knees with 100 ton weights
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This is why I said when Yuzu died and all the forks were born, to paraphrase: It's more like a hydra whose heads regrew, tore themselves off the decaying corpse, and then proceeded to devour each other's tails like an ouroboros chain. If Nintendo doesn't send a DMCA to Githud, or C&D or sue the developers directly, more often than not, switch emulator devs often suffer from infighting and jockeying for supremacy in the emulation space.

Because they don't want to just be a head grown from a decapitated hydra body - they want to be THE head grown from a decapitated hydra body that everyone pays attention to. Any other head is little more than a threat that could steal attention away.

It's why I feel that if the Switch emulation community wants to do this right, they need to scrap these forks entirely and start over fresh. Build an emulator that avoids the mistakes made by Yuzu/Ryujinx and their branches, and isn't as likely to draw ire from Nintendo.

(Edit: Noticed some spelling/grammar errors I made and corrected them for clarity.)
Post automatically merged:

Bladexdsl said:
this is why you should not take donations for emulators leave the fucking things free. this is why we can't have nice things because people get greedy :glare:
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Funny that I find myself agreeing with you here. The potential for lawsuits from Sony, Nintendo, and the like aside, taking even donations for an emulator means you're displaying a financial incentive to get said emulator out to the public. At the same time, you're also setting up your development process to be poisoned by those who are only in it for personal gain through the money from those same donations.

Once those kinds of people end up attached to that donation money, it's only a matter of time before greed becomes the sole driving force behind the emulator's development. And only when development falls apart to the point the project is discontinued, or the lawsuits start coming in, is the extent of that greed's roots known fully.
 
Last edited by ChronosNotashi,
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ShadowOne333 said:

Citron, one of the big main 3 Nintendo Switch emulators that came out of Yuzu's downfall is sadly being discontinued.

Yesterday on Citron's subreddit. one of Citron's moderators, lockhart1433, announced that the Citron emulator will be discontinued due to internal conflicts, citing one of the major problems being that one of the lead developers got doxxed, leaking the real name and location of the developer, as well as still some lingering issues with the whole fallout from last year between Citron and some of its developers, which led to the creation of the Eden emulator, as well as the controversy when they switched how their internal Discord server operated, which happened alongside it.

This decision seems to be a culprit of all the previously mentioned topics, and now all of Citron's servers and websites have all been taken down, including their own self-hosted repository.



Not only that, but also one of the other main 3 Switch emulators, Ryubing, will also change, with the main developer GreemDev no longer maintaining the Ryubing project. However, the Ryubing emulator will still remain in "maintenance mode" by other users, like LotP, but GreemDev will no longer be involved in the development of Ryubing going forward.



It is important to note though, that this is not related to the recent wave of DMCA's sent by Nintendo on GitHub earlier this week, as these decisions were made mainly due to internal conflicts and events unrelated to that wave of DMCAs, more so given how all 3 Switch emulators do not operate within Github and rather self-host their own source code.

:arrow: Source
Click to expand...
Dang... even if the DMCA's didn't happen it still would have been dead
 
Be very careful giving out any personal details folks. It hurts to see how many people in the emulation community are the product of drama when they are the ones driving emulation forward.
 
plasma said:
doxxing is wrong and you should feel ashamed for doing so.
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Now watch someone be butthurt by this comment and try to doxx you. :P

Anyway, this stuff right here is exactly why I haven't sold my Switch yet, despite significantly less usage these days. There's only 2 games I plan on playing left on Switch: Mega Man Star Force Collection and Yu-Gi-Oh! The Glory Days Collection. After 100% completing those and Mega Man Battle Network Collection (which I was playing before Metroid Prime 4 absorbed my attention), I am going to remove all games and my account, then find a buyer for it willing to pay at least $375 for it, which is what I paid for it, the jigs and microSD reader, and the 256GB microSD card. I will be emailing a link to the NAND backup as well for good measure. I will be willing to accept $325 if the buyer would pay for shipping both ways as well. Note that I cannot do international shipments. The listing will be in the Trading Area of the forums once I do decide to go through with it.
 
JustAPan said:
We gotta study the people who go out of their way to doxx emulation devs doing thankless work in a lab
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Honestly, the entire Switch emulation scene could be a whole study case by itself. I have not heard of any emulation scene for any other console that has had such frequent degrees of infighting and drama, even when the company whose console is being emulated hasn't even moved a muscle for 5 minutes. Even the PS4 emulation scene has been more mild and quiet in general from what I've seen, and given Sony DMCA'd a 60 FPS mod for a game everyone's been asking them to bring to PC, that's saying something.
 
ChronosNotashi said:
Honestly, the entire Switch emulation scene could be a whole study case by itself. I have not heard of any emulation scene for any other console that has had such frequent degrees of infighting and drama, even when the company whose console is being emulated hasn't even moved a muscle for 5 minutes. Even the PS4 emulation scene has been more mild and quiet in general from what I've seen, and given Sony DMCA'd a 60 FPS mod for a game everyone's been asking them to bring to PC, that's saying something.
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while i don't know how true the doxxing is within this particular situation, yeah it's been pretty bad since the literal inception of the scene and it's i never really got into the scene. the 3ds has had drama quite a bit, which if i recall correctly was around when pokemon USUM was the current game onwards, but alot of it was more underground shit that not many would know about unless you're deep in the trenches of looking for modding tools for a specific game, or something like that but even then i don't think anything compares to how extreme the switch scene tends to get.
 
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