American judge dismisses Joycon-drift lawsuit based on the user's acceptance of the EULA

DS1 · Feb 6, 2023

Is there a 3rd party alternative without the drifting problem and is it guaranteed to support the system (for example, 3rd party chargers and headphones for iPhones may be made defunct by future Apple updates)?

Alternatively, is there a fairly easy home-fix, or does Nintendo still use that stupid proprietary screw in all their hardware, lol.

Foxi4 · Feb 6, 2023

You can’t blame the judge if your suit was presented by an idiot. It’s sad that incompetence led to this decision.

DS1 said:
Is there a 3rd party alternative without the drifting problem and is it guaranteed to support the system (for example, 3rd party chargers and headphones for iPhones may be made defunct by future Apple updates)?

Alternatively, is there a fairly easy home-fix, or does Nintendo still use that stupid proprietary screw in all their hardware, lol.

Gulikit Joycon replacements physically cannot drift. It’s a pricey replacement part, but it improves the lifespan of the controllers by orders of magnitude thanks to its use of hall sensors and minimum amount of moving parts.

https://www.gulikit.com/productinfo/945307.html

ShadowOne333 · Feb 6, 2023

DS1 said:
Is there a 3rd party alternative without the drifting problem and is it guaranteed to support the system (for example, 3rd party chargers and headphones for iPhones may be made defunct by future Apple updates)?

Alternatively, is there a fairly easy home-fix, or does Nintendo still use that stupid proprietary screw in all their hardware, lol.

For people on the know-how, it's a simple fix one can do at home without even opening the Joycon, but thing here is that they shouldn't fail that often nor as consistent as it is at the moment. I even sent my Joycons for repair on this matter not twice, thrice, and by the third time I got back the Joycons, the drift was happening even worse that how I sent them, by this time it wasn't a drift, it was worse. Catch this, I was playing Link's Awakening, moving Link to the left, and in a matter of seconds, Link was slowing down in that direction, until it came to a stop, and THEN Link started moving to the right, while I was still holding down the stick to the left. Tells you just how fucked up their repair and design system goes for joysticks. I even opened up the Joycon (since I do have experience working on console repairs), and I confirmed that the revision of the joystick was not changed, the only thing that could change is the aluminium housing which encases the stick, and that's it, the design itself is the same. After that I simply gave Nintendo the finger, not wanting any more fucking months until I received the things back, and basically pour some slight isopropil alcohol under the joystick's thumbpad's rubber, move the stick in all directions a bit while pressing it down, and that gets the job done for some time, until the whole shit starts again, then you do it again, but saves you months of waiting on repairs in my case in like 10 secs.

Another 3rd party solution can be magnetic Hall analog sticks being developed by some companies, basically using Hall Effect sticks makes the possibility of a stick drift very unlikely, so people can opt for that and replace their joycon's default mechanic sticks with those.

Marc_LFD · Feb 6, 2023

Joy-Con well that part is true.

The Switch Pro Controller is amazing in its own right, but read there were reports of stick drifting too (not as bad as DualSho-- I mean DualSense). Switch Pro Controller with modded analog triggers would be a dream controller!

MarkDarkness · Feb 6, 2023

I'll repeat this as many times as needed: I am very happy to have ended my consumer relation with Nintendo. The Joycon situation was the last straw back in 2019 or so, and I haven't look back since. I still have a historic passion for the brand, I have merch, I play the old games... but screw this current iteration of the company.

zoogie said:
So let me get this straight. Nintendo will fix your joycons if they have drift -- even out of warranty -- but people are still suing, for reasons?

I guess if lawyers are still getting payed, everyone's still happy in freedomland.

Nintendo does not do global service. It's cozy if you live in a place in which it does, but if you don't, they couldn't care less.

moneychild said:
What happens if an adult over 18 accepts the terms of the EULA and experiences drift?????
Why is this judge just focusing on minors?????
(note: I may be missing facts since I have not read the case!)

Bribes

Vine-gar · Feb 6, 2023

The explanation is pretty clear if you read the source PDF. The EULA required that they had to go through arbitration and the judge upheld that for reasons that a lawyer would have to explain. When faced with that, the parents dropped their part of the lawsuit and the two minors continued the lawsuit. The idea was that the kids could not agree to the EULA. However, the judge ruled that the kids did not incur the cost and thus didn't have grounds to sue.

Plaintiffs, then two parents and two minor children, filed the first amended complaint in
November 2020. ...

In December 2020, [Nintendo] moved to dismiss ... due to ... lack of standing, or, in the alternative, to compel arbitration due to a forum selection clause in the EULA. During the hearing, the Court sent the case to arbitration on the issue of the delegation clause’s compulsory effect. An arbitration panel determined claims by the parents, Dolly Vierra and Luz Sanchez, had to proceed in arbitration and that minors, A.D. and M.S., were never parties to the EULA (Dkt. Nos. 27, 43, 73-4).

Following the arbitration panel’s decision, parents abandoned their claims and minors returned to this forum for litigation (Dkt. No. 57).

Basically, go to arbitration if you are in the United States and want compensation. I'm not very familiar with how that process works but I believe it's easier (and thus more accessible) for all involved than a lawsuit.

Ryab · Feb 6, 2023

ShadowOne333 said:
View attachment 351684

An American judge based on California, where the lawsuit was taking place, has dismissed the lawsuit against Nintendo about their infamous Joycon drift that has plagued Nintendo Switch users since the console's release back in 2017.

The lawsuit, which has been going on since 2020, was made by the patents with the statement that the minor's Switch console had the infamous drift, causing by the faulty Joycons making the console unusable, summed up with the lack of response or action from Nintendo regarding the Joycon drift, which many users have encountered even after getting their console serviced through warranty, with many users even getting the drift just a few moments from receiving the console back from service.

In November, 2022, the case came to a close, with the summed up conclusion of the case being that the minors at hand are not the ones who directly purchased the console, and therefore are not the ones who suffered directly by the issue, and secondly, that the minors do not have any kind of pursue claims standing, since they are the ones who agreed to the EULA.

The following is the exact excerpt from the lawsuit's conclusion section:

Source

I mean I can't say I'm exactly shocked. EULAs commonly have a lot of infuriating agreements. Such as every digital storefront having the right to remove anything you have purchased from your library without warning. Though I suppose in this case this isnt too bad seeing Nintendo repairs these things for free.

hatredg0d · Feb 6, 2023

zoogie said:
So let me get this straight. Nintendo will fix your joycons if they have drift -- even out of warranty -- but people are still suing, for reasons?

I guess if lawyers are still getting payed, everyone's still happy in freedomland.

30 hours average before unplayable drift on both sets of my joycons. I literally did not even beat breath of the wild and simply stopped using the system. The people acting like there is not a problem are the problem

Post automatically merged: Feb 6, 2023

moneychild said:
What happens if an adult over 18 accepts the terms of the EULA and experiences drift?????
Why is this judge just focusing on minors?????
(note: I may be missing facts since I have not read the case!)

Minors can not legally accept contracts or eulas, so the judge is literally wrong either way. But the legal system is pay to win.

Ericzander · Feb 6, 2023

Woah woah guys, read the order before jumping to conclusions that the Judge reached a decision on the merits of the case. He dismissed the suit because the kids had no standing to bring the suit. They weren't the ones who bought the console.

For example, if AlanJohn breaks RyRyIV's laptop--Relauby can't sue AlanJohn for the cost of the laptop.

Here, the kids didn't buy the Switch. I can hear you all saying "AHA Ericzander! But you forget, the kid received the Switch as a gift and therefore do have standing to sue!" and to that I remind you that this was already brought up in the arbitration and the arbitrator said that argument doesn't fly so they are not allowed to try again in front of the judge.

The argument of claim preclusion is fresh on my mind right now because I'm currently on GBAtemp while taking a break from working on an appeal where my client's case was thrown out at summary judgment due to claim preclusion. :hateit:

chr0m · Feb 6, 2023

Ah America. The land of the free (as long as you're super rich or a corporation)

Thankfully we have amazing consumer laws in my country and that shit would not fly at all here

gaga941021 · Feb 6, 2023

CompSciOrBust said:
I bought a pair of joycons to use as Bluetooth controllers for my phone which started to drift. I have also never accepted the Switch EULA because I find it fun to stare at the start up screen. Does that mean I can sue them?

You accepted the EULA by buying the Switch Joy-Cons, tho.

Dax_Fame · Feb 6, 2023

I don't even waste my time with the "official" repair process. It's not worth it an I swear sometimes they do nothing.

I'm so good at swapping joysticks now I don't even get upset when they start to drift. I keep a few in a junk drawer and hell, I even shell swapped while I was at it.

Sad it has to be that way

Viri · Feb 6, 2023

PewnyPL said:
Not everywhere. There is no free repair options in some countries.

Yeah, but this is a thread about an American judge.

Smoker1 · Feb 6, 2023

They seriously expect People to Read and somehow understand the TOS or EULA??????? Where does it say Consumers have to accept problematic Products and the Manufacturer is not Responsible????? Hence why there are Hackers, and Parts other Companies make that actually work.

G33ksquad · Feb 6, 2023

Most times you send in a set you get a brand new set back, 4-5 business days on average from the Midwest from the time they receive them in which is about 2-3 days after you drop them off at UPS depending on when your UPS stores pickup is. Is it frustrating, totally, but they do remediate it, and unlike Sony who charges you $10 for the shipping label even if under warranty, the entire process is free. I wouldn’t use the Gulikit sticks unless I was in a country where they didn’t fix for free.

Purple_Shyguy · Feb 6, 2023

zoogie said:
So let me get this straight. Nintendo will fix your joycons if they have drift -- even out of warranty -- but people are still suing, for reasons?

I guess if lawyers are still getting payed, everyone's still happy in freedomland.

You shouldn't have to send your controllers away for weeks to get fixed when they drift every 6 months

TobiasAmaranth · Feb 6, 2023

My problem hasn't been drift. My problem has been that little plastic nub that secures the controller. All three of my sets are fucked and will slip off - something is wrong with my console's cage, and it's damaging my controllers. Early on, I was admittedly rough with the poor thing but for my third set, I've tried to take really good care of it but getting bumped in transit etc has still led to the same damage in the same spot.

The problem makes me have to hold the console in a less-than-pleasant way to avoid the controller slipping or disconnecting, which has greatly exacerbated my hand pains in recent years. The annoying part is I hear no one talking about this problem, nor would I know how to go about repairing it.

Maybe someone here can point me in a direction...

ZeroFX · Feb 6, 2023

Of course it's from the shithole called california.

Viri · Feb 6, 2023

What did they exactly expect to get from this lawsuit? Nintendo is fixing Joycons for free in the US, even outside of warranty.

This is a US judge, so Nintendo not fixing Joycons in other countries is irrelevant. If you want your Joycons fixed in Europe for free outside of warranty, then have your gov do something, where's all those European consumer protections I keep hearing about?

My brother's Joycon had drift, they sent me a box, and fixed it in a few days, warranty or no warranty. Imo, the cost of fixing all these Joycons is going to bite Nintendo in the ass, and force them to be more thoughtful of their next controller.

Foxi4 · Feb 6, 2023

TobiasAmaranth said:
My problem hasn't been drift. My problem has been that little plastic nub that secures the controller. All three of my sets are fucked and will slip off - something is wrong with my console's cage, and it's damaging my controllers. Early on, I was admittedly rough with the poor thing but for my third set, I've tried to take really good care of it but getting bumped in transit etc has still led to the same damage in the same spot.

The problem makes me have to hold the console in a less-than-pleasant way to avoid the controller slipping or disconnecting, which has greatly exacerbated my hand pains in recent years. The annoying part is I hear no one talking about this problem, nor would I know how to go about repairing it.

Maybe someone here can point me in a direction...

This is actually a fail safe mechanism that’s in the joycons on purpose. The idea is that, should you drop your console, the plastic stopper will shear off, thus sliding the Joycon off the rail as opposed to tearing the rail out, along with the connector. You can avoid damage to the plastic by fully depressing the mechanism not only when you take your joycons off, but also when you put them on. The iconic Switch “click” is the stopper latching into the rail - over time metal will damage it through normal wear and tear because the part is intentionally soft. You can replace it with a metal stopper instead which will not be subject to wear and tear nearly as much, but you’ll have to be careful not to drop your console as doing so *will* damage the rail. If your Switch gets “bumped” during transit hard enough to damage this part even though you’re careful with it, you need a better case, friend.

hatredg0d said:
30 hours average before unplayable drift on both sets of my joycons. I literally did not even beat breath of the wild and simply stopped using the system. The people acting like there is not a problem are the problem

My launch day Switch had zero issues in terms of drift until I played Metroid Dread (so a good 4 years of regular use) - that game absolutely wrecked the stick. Everything depends on what games you play - those that require intense stick use (particularly when pressing the stick down is required) will tear right through them in no time flat, others will not. There’s little Nintendo can do to remedy the situation besides abandoning carbon film altogether - the same problem affects all manner of controllers, including Switch Pro, PS4/5 and Xbox One/S/X ones. The difference with the bigger models is that the assembly doesn’t put pressure on the film when L3/R3 is used nearly to the same extent as the potentiometers are on the sides of the assembly whereas on the Switch the film is directly underneath it.

Not to get too technical, when you press the joycon down, you are pressing into the film with the wipers whereas on a traditional ALPS-style stick you don’t - the pots are parallel to the button. The joycon gets double wear - from the wiper moving back and forth *and* pushing down.

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