HTPCs and Emulation. Ryzen?

[Deleted member 42501]

Anyone using an HTPC for emulation? Mainly upto Dreamcast and PS2 but it must be flawless, smooth with no frameskip or judder. What have ye?

Been looking at those new NUCs and Ryzen based small machines and they look great, if a bit pricey. Totally out of the PC loop in every sense of the word so aware me.

 

[Deleted member 42501]

Anyone?

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

Which HTPCs are you looking at exactly? Depending on the price, it may be better to just build a mini ITX PC instead.

But generally speaking, anything that's running at least a Zen 2 CPU (so any 3000 series desktop CPU, and any 4000 series mobile SoC cuz AMDs naming schemes are dumb) should work just fine for PS2 emulation, though don't expect the iGPUs in them to do much more than maybe 1080p upscaling for PS2/Wii/GC depending on the game.

 

[rmorris003]

Go watch ETA Prime on YouTube, he reviews a ton of devices that are good and includes computers.

 

[NNate]

Go watch ETA Prime on YouTube, he reviews a ton of devices that are good and includes computers.

This

 

[notimp]

Anyone using an HTPC for emulation? Mainly upto Dreamcast and PS2 but it must be flawless, smooth with no frameskip or judder. What have ye?

Been looking at those new NUCs and Ryzen based small machines and they look great, if a bit pricey. Totally out of the PC loop in every sense of the word so aware me.

Higher Ghz is king, more cores less so.

So depends on how much money you spend.

Best budget solution currently is to buy an Xbox Series S and google around until you've found how to install retroarch in retail mode (needed for access to all ram, important for PS2 and later emulation - currently involves finding discord channels, and maybe even paying a 'transactional fee'.).

So as an overall guideline, Intel probably is the better solution. (Higher Ghz targets, lower corecount. Also currently becoming "the budget" option at many pricepoints (because 7nm manufacturing is limited, so Ryzens get a price premium at retail currently (demand is high)))

But since your top end is PS2 - depending on game, my 7 year old Intel 4440 with a GTX 970 could do this at higher than normal resolutions with anisotropic filtering - so you should be good anyhow.

Have a Ryzen 3700X HTPC system going currently (form factor, for HTPC purposes (non gaming) I use an android box, like a sane person.. ) - but interestingly not tested in terms of PS2 emulation yet. I doubt that I would run into many issues that are not "emulation related".
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edit:
On the NUC side - maybe still an issue. First - for NUC form factor you want current Ryzen chips, because of lower heat dissipation (7nm), and you are dealing with on board graphics. Dreamcast most certainly will be fine, PS2 less so. Might need more GPU performance than on board Ryzen graphics currently can handle.

At that point we are back to - if you can get the Xbox Series S thing figured out (and again, installing it in User mode, not Dev mode is important - which involves going through someone who has retroarch greenlit to be featured on the microsoft app store.. - which is a little sketch, which is why obscurity is needed to protect the method (otherwise MS might be forced to act)) - thats the best solution currently for your purposes.

ETA primes channel can be your starting point to figure this out, as the others have suggested.

 

[Deleted member 42501]

Thanks. I'm not PC in any respect so all of this nerd crap is generally beyond me.

 

[notimp]

Thanks. I'm not PC in any respect so all of this nerd crap is generally beyond me.

If easy, then price premium.

But in general - a decent 4 year old gaming system (GTX970) was enough to handle PS2 emulation sufficiently.

If you go the Intel route - with spectre and meltdown patches disabled (+15% more performance, less on site security). Use this program (two clicks) to disable those Windows patches:
https://www.grc.com/inspectre.htm

On a NUC with a chip thats relying on on board graphics - you still might not be there yet (ETA Prime videos will tell you).

For a new "mid range" gaming PC, PS2 emulation should not be a problem (past emulation issues). But currently buying any 7nm components, CPUs (current Ryzen chips) or GPUs (current all graphics cards (with 6GB of video memory or higher.. )) comes at a high price premium (lockdown, production limits, GPU mining of asic resistant crypto currencies trended again...). So retailers are asking above MSRP.

 

[Deleted member 42501]

This kind of stuff is the exact reason I'm not PC. The sheer amount of lingo and nerdosity one must stay on top of is an immense waste of the time. Obviously not everyone has to agree with this but its def for the younger folks with plenty of spare time to obsess about this hyperthreadeddotmatrixoverclockcachesuperturbo2x which is great for about 3 days until a new and improved version is released.

Not to mention the sheer amount of faff you need to do to get the games optimized and working correctly which anyone who tinkers will admit:

They spend more time tweaking than actually playing. See what I mean?

Think I'll just get a Shield for DC/everything before and use the PS3 for PS2.

 

[Deleted member 42501]

Wow. Look at the power inside that tiny device. I don't think that it would work reliably long term used primarily as a plugged in emulation machine as it must generate some heat doing all that.

Whats the equivalent of this but as an Android box or similar?

 

[Deleted User]

just gonna point this out since nobody has, pcsx2 is a dogshit emulator still, so it won't be a "flawless" emulator, but it's still the only option available
just a head's up if you're not super informed

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

Nothing, the closest you can get to a "high end" Android box these days is still the now 6 year old Shield TV, which is way weaker than current Snapdragon SoCs in smartphones like the S21. Android TV boxes didn't go "faster and more powerful", they went "smaller, cheaper, and more convenient", so you're really not going to find a TV box out there that's decent for emulating much more than PS1/N64/DC/Maybe GC depending on the game other than the Shield TV.

If you have the money to spend and want something that's just all in one, buy a NUC or SFF prebuilt, anything with modern specs these days is capable of what you want, you can basically ignore notimp's posts because they're not really that informative or helpful at all to someone PC illiterate as you claim. Basically look for anything mid-end (so Core i5+ or AMD Ryzen 3000), and that will work just fine for PS2 and up. Otherwise, buy a Shield TV and whatever additional consoles you need to get console games the Shield TV can't emulate.

 

[notimp]

With android boxes, there are two performance specs currently out there on the market, that make sense:

1. NVidia Shield
2. This Chromecast with Google TV dongle: https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/...pcoming-android-tv-dongle-code-named-sabrina/ (respectively the chip thats inside, which also is in other devices)

None of which are sufficient for PS2 emulation.

The sad truth here is, that android boxes are on a regression slope..

My second (?) generation Amazon 4K Android TV box (btw - stay away from amazon boxes, if you cant root them - they are building closed ecosystems, have blacklisted launchers in the past, ...) is more performant than that google chromecast thingy that came out five years later.

The NVidia Shield is stuck on the same spec for over five years now.

Every manufacturer realized, that they only need so much GPU power, and no CPU power, to decode 4K 24 fps, and thats really all those things are sold for.

Which is really, really sad - but sadly the truth.

They are worse, than current generation smartphones. Which might change the earliest, when a Switch pro comes out (Nvidia would then produce those processors at scale - and probably also update their NVidia shield at that point).
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On the PS2 emulation front - you need about 1.1 TFLOPs of GPU performance - see:


That handheld is using a 4500U Ryzen chip, but also has a graphics card in there. The Ryzen chip alone wouldnt even give you a third of the GPU performance needed.

The GTX 970 I mentioned had about 4 TFLOPs of GPU performance, which was more than enough.

A GTX 950 or 750Ti would be the equivalent at about 1.1 TFLOPs of GPU performance, which is as low as you should go for PS2 emulation.

So thats your GPU target for "how low you could go - buying a (used) gaming PC", and also your answer on - no, a Ryzen APU (what would be in a NUC style device) is not enough for PS2 emulation.
--

Dreamcast is one ARM development cycle away from being able to run on your calculator, so that wont give you many problems (see: ).

And again, the best price performance device to emulate PS2 currently is a Xbox Series S - but you'd have to make sure to be able to get your hands on a non advertised method to install a copy of retroarch from a developer account that Microsoft greenlit for actual public distribution of software. And you arent getting more than hints here at the moment, because people dont want that method to be shut down.


edit: 4500U (What would be in a Ryzen NUC) seems to be enough for some PS2 games - but only at 1x resolution, and not for God of War 2 f.e. - so... not ideal.


edit: Mistake - the handheld above only runs a Ryzen 5 4500U APU, which actually gets 1.1 TFLOPS of GPU performance - which is not enough to run God of War PS2 at full speed.

So maybe eying GTX 970 class GPUs for PS2 emulation isnt such a bad idea after all.

 

[Deleted member 435036]

I'd build something with itx a 3400g and maybe an external brick with a picopsu.

 

[notimp]

I'd build something with itx a 3400g and maybe an external brick with a picopsu.

Has 2TFLOPs of GPU performance, so probably would be enough for most PS2 games.

Performance vs current APU flagship:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-pro-4750g-renoir-review/3

Sounds correct.
--

Or buy used gaming components of the GTX 970 aera, a SilverStone Sugo SG05-Lite case (price/performance) and build an ITX PC with the PSU integrated.

See: https://www.overclock.net/threads/silverstone-sugo-sg05-06-owners-club.1446758/

f.e.

(Better (?) price performance, also itx formfactor.)

edit: B85M-ITX was the motherboard generation to get back then (Asrock B85M-ITX arguably the best price/performer). Ram are DDR3, Socket was LGA 1150 (maxes out with 4core 8thread intels).

 

[Deleted member 435036]

Has 2TFLOPs of GPU performance, so probably would be enough for most PS2 games.

Performance vs current APU flagship:
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-ryzen-7-pro-4750g-renoir-review/3

Sounds correct.
--

Or buy used gaming components of the GTX 970 aera, a SilverStone Sugo SG05-Lite case (price/performance) and build an ITX PC with the PSU integrated.

See: https://www.overclock.net/threads/silverstone-sugo-sg05-06-owners-club.1446758/

f.e.

(Better (?) price performance, also itx formfactor.)

You'd get better price to performane with used parts however they run hotter, uses more power and the whole machine would just be bigger and louder.

 

[notimp]

You'd get better price to performane with used parts however they run hotter, uses more power and the whole machine would just be bigger and louder.

Not necessarily louder.

https://geizhals.eu/silverstone-argon-ar06-sst-ar06-90115-a1179209.html
(Had this cooler in a Sugo case - that was pretty silent with a 84W TDP intel CPU (just on the silent fan profile preset on the motherboard) - GPU on a custom fan curve is a must though (MSI Afterburner) - so its 'fiddly')

For the front intake fan:
https://geizhals.eu/arctic-p12-pwm-pst-black-acfan00120a-a1920159.html
At 800rpm thats silent.


But you get faster ram performance with the newer Ryzen chips.
And maybe better CPU performance.
And lower power consumption.

Intel chips to buy used on LGA 1150 would be
- i5 - 4460 (4 cores, 4 threads)
- i5 - 4570 (4 cores, 4 threads)
- Xeon E3-1231V3B (no GPU, so you are dependent on your graphics card) (4 cores, 8 threads (better))

or i5-4690 or i5-4690K (but may clash with the low noise profile target (higher TDP))

edit: Performance comparison:
https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-intel_core_i5_4570-25-vs-amd_ryzen_5_3400g-953

 

[linuxares]

Nvidia shield + Kodi with emulators. Problem solved.

 

[The Real Jdbye]

Nvidia shield + Kodi with emulators. Problem solved.

Except the Shield TV doesn't run Dolphin perfectly, and I can't imagine PS2 would run well if Dolphin struggles.

 

[Deleted member 42501]

It would be great if these Chinese companies that keep cranking out Android/Linux handhelds would simply take the same chipset and whack it in a set top box thats open for us to do what we want with.

Really should be so much cheaper as there are less parts/weight and portables are cool but a proper controller and couch are so much better. Wonder why no one is doing that as they usually try and one up each other for market share all the time and as mentioned the set top box market (Apart from the new Atari) is stagnant.