How do you feel about abortion?

[Old]

HER body, HER choice. Simple enough. Those withOUT vaginas & repressed 'conservative' trash need to be minding their own business. They stand in their pulpits and at their podiums and spout bullshit about "the sanctity of human life" while bathing in blood-soaked military dollars. The hypocrisy is nauseating. This has never been about unborn babies -- what about the MILLIONS of unwanted/homeless kids already living miserable lives?? -- it's always been about repugnant old white males attempting to control women. Point blank.

The state/gov opting for control over what we do with our genitalia is a very slippery and frightening slope.

 

[granville]

Why assume everyone who is pro-life is also a conservative, warmonger, or even male? A significant percentage of the female population thinks abortion should be illegal. And very few people in general, even pro-choice, think abortion is without any moral dilemma or are legitimately comfortable with it (even when they think women's right to it are paramount over anything else).

In most if not all other aspects of my life I am decidedly liberal. I'm an atheist, pro-LGBTQ, anti war (whenever avoidable), anti torture, support stricter gun regulation, support assistance for the poor or homeless, a socialized healthcare system for everyone, generally against the death penalty and support making contraception much easier and cheaper to get (or even free).

I will still call out people who say or do stupid and hypocritical crap regardless of whether they're liberal or conservative (plenty of nonsense across all party lines). But I generally adhere to decidedly liberal principles in most aspects of my life. It probably won't help to explain my perspective, but I am opposed to death and killing as a whole, and I try to remain as consistent as possible in that aspect throughout my moral compass.

 

[Deleted User]

Why does this even need to be a debate? People who are against it aren't affected by it.

 

[FAST6191]

Those withOUT vaginas need to be minding their own business.

No.
It is a concept that can be discussed by anybody, being in possession of a womb holds no particular bearing on your capability or suitability to do so here.

Why does this even need to be a debate? People who are against it aren't affected by it.

While I would agree "if you don't like one then don't get one" works for me there could be scope for a debate. Historically many dominant religions and philosophies have been against it but eh. More suited to a modern debate would be whether the foetus counts as alive and if in turn abortion counts as killing something that should not be killed, or indeed if it does count then might there still be scope to allow it under various circumstances as part of a greater good type thing. Similarly there is also a discussion for the points at which it becomes questionable.

 

[Old]

No.
It is a concept that can be discussed by anybody, being in possession of a womb holds no particular bearing on your capability or suitability to do so here.

Discussion is one thing, meddling - which is obviously what I was referring to - is quite another. When a council of elderly out-of-touch women begin telling me what I can and cannot do with my own cock you'll be the first to know, eh? Hypocrisy personified.

 

[leon315]

WEIRD, how did this topic live so long? something like this always degenerates into arguments then get closed by mods...

The civility here is insanely civil, remarkable.

 

[FAST6191]

WEIRD, how did this topic live so long? something like this always degenerates into arguments then get closed by mods...

The civility here is insanely civil, remarkable.

Par for the course around here really.

Discussion is one thing, meddling - which is obviously what I was referring to - is quite another. When a council of elderly out-of-touch women begin telling me what I can and cannot do with my own cock you'll be the first to know, eh? Hypocrisy personified.

If the result of the ethical ponderings, as done by whomever, came back as "not acceptable" then I would accept it. At the same time though the rigour I apply to the results of such a pondering is somewhat akin to a scientific enquiry-- reals over feels all day long in all things.

 

[YukiYolo]

you were teached to be carefull already you know, from the moment you left primary school you know that.
you already been teached about protection, about consequences. maybe you didn't learn about finances, but most likely a child costs more than your parents needed for you.
and since you had chance to learn there...
the girl on the other hand has more to say since she's gonna carry the child in her womb, she'll be the first to feed him, and since the child to be is for 9 months in her body, she gets to get attached to this child to be.
you as a father on the other hand might like or dislike the idea of this child, but you had your chance in thinking about protection.
now if you didn't do it there, you'll gotta understand that everything you do has consequences.
and come on, even the people i know without any degree or diploma, they still could do the finances, just you gotta know what rights you have.

Lets not use the 'everything' has consequences excuse when the issue I brought up is an imbalance cause by one sex having the ability to avoid them after the fact. None of this would be a problem if people were responsible but that is clearly not the case.

Also, the child support system is trash. No way to ensure funds going where they should(IE: They don't primarily benefit the child in my indirect experience.)

Because of rape and health concerns, I accept that it needs to be a thing. That people should have bodily autonomy in general.

The real shitty thing though is that the primary reasons for abortion are simply to avoid parenthood(Too young, not financially stable, don't want the child to interfere with studies, don't like the mate, just don't want kids, etc) rather than a strong feeling of wanting to end the pregnancy as a medical condition. Men have the same concerns but don't have a convenient excuse to take advantage of and thus there is an unfair imbalance in regards to their ability to impact their future after the act. But the primary reason this is the case is simply an issue of money. Someone has to foot the bill and so fairness and such gets tossed out the window. Who else besides the father would be able to? The Government/Taxpayers but that is an entirely separate can of worms.

Talking about ethics and morality in relation to this subject is weak anyway given where society already is.

 

[FAST6191]

The real shitty thing though is that the primary reasons for abortion are simply to avoid parenthood(Too young, not financially stable, don't want the child to interfere with studies, don't like the mate, just don't want kids, etc) rather than a strong feeling of wanting to end the pregnancy as a medical condition.

I am still not convinced it is a shitty thing. Eat too many sweets and don't brush your teeth properly and you are going to need fillings, best not to get to that point but no big deal if you do. I would assign the exact same logic and moral/ethical "value" to it.

 

[Jack Daniels]

Lets not use the 'everything' has consequences excuse when the issue I brought up is an imbalance cause by one sex having the ability to avoid them after the fact. None of this would be a problem if people were responsible but that is clearly not the case.

Also, the child support system is trash. No way to ensure funds going where they should(IE: They don't primarily benefit the child in my indirect experience.)

Because of rape and health concerns, I accept that it needs to be a thing. That people should have bodily autonomy in general.

The real shitty thing though is that the primary reasons for abortion are simply to avoid parenthood(Too young, not financially stable, don't want the child to interfere with studies, don't like the mate, just don't want kids, etc) rather than a strong feeling of wanting to end the pregnancy as a medical condition. Men have the same concerns but don't have a convenient excuse to take advantage of and thus there is an unfair imbalance in regards to their ability to impact their future after the act. But the primary reason this is the case is simply an issue of money. Someone has to foot the bill and so fairness and such gets tossed out the window. Who else besides the father would be able to? The Government/Taxpayers but that is an entirely separate can of worms.

Talking about ethics and morality in relation to this subject is weak anyway given where society already is.

why not, it's simple you come from the same country as i do, so you should've gotten the same system and teachings as i do.
you countradict your own words in the last part, first you wanna warn fathers to be for the financial part, and then you wanna cut the rope to escape.
a child needs a lot more then you think it needs, and though you say it doesn't primairly benefit the child to be, that's not true.
you see:
taxes that will come are put to fight legally (industrial) waste wich is a problem for the future of your to be child, is put in eductional progress wich is for a better future for your child, is used to pay our policeman to fight for low criminallety wich means the chances of your child of having a father and a mom throughout his life is higher, is used to pay our soldiers to keep a borderline a bit secured and so keep other countries from taking what's not thiers to begin with and to ensure, there's a ballanced country with room for your kid to find work when he's old enough.
since you and your child wanna be payed enough for doing work so you can spend it on basic needs of life means that the shop you get your daipers need a fair amount of money for the daipers to support thier personel, your now is also his or her future.
this brings the mothers side of the story, she'll need support to be healthy as can be to ensure milk quality, walking with the child, helping the child to explore the world and understand... not all teachings are teaced in school, some are in the garden, some at a sport, most of this will cost money to learn, bet without these lessons there's no real chance of a fair chance in his life to actual getting to face the world.
now comes the price of the health industrie, this is somewhat tricky cause there's a fine line... some docters are not really honest about chances for treatment being the cure, so i do understand if you take them out of th quotation, but i doubt you do.

the way you want it to be isn't fair to yourself and the girl you knocked over.
yes she might have volunteered in to the act, but so did you.
so you should see: action means responsibility you donated your part to her and started (might've been out of love, might've been for fun) the whole thing there.
since you it's your part combined to hers it's as much your problem as it is for her.
without your sperm injection gotten unprotected in to her womb there wouldn't be pregnancy to begin with.
this is not gonna mean she's fully ready to be mother, and it seems to me the same counts in your case for the father.

if you don't have the option to abort here, you make it the child to be's problem that either one of his or hers parents are unfit.
talking about being unresponsibility.
i'm furious that you say that father to be should have the right to eliminate the child to be when he's not even caring the child to be.
i'm moreso furious that you missing the brain part to see that the child to be is nothing more in the first weeks then a kidney is in her body.
you don't let your parents tell you when you donate a kidney do you?
this kidney has a the power to get to have a body around itself and think for itself in time.
but if one parent isn't gonna give ground to grow this way, why wait till it dies eventually.

• yes you have to pay much for a child, but not doing so means you're not fair to the child.
• not paying it's mom is just as evil.
• not giving her a say about what's in her body... i don't have words to say how evil i think you must be.
• thinking you have the right to tell her what's right and wrong when she's pregnant is even worse.

 

[RandomUser]

So we have a dead foetus. Is that something of value that was lost?


How is that a useful response to the quoted part?


Ignoring the perhaps part you think fucking went out of style at one point?

You knew at what point the fetus died or knew what point it becomes alive?

@Lacius That is the best post you have made, in regarding to my post. I wouldn't like the government telling me what I can and cannot do, however in reality, they are telling people what they can do and can't do, albeit in a more subtle ways.
Curious though, why does a female have more right to her bodily autonomy, then a male does to his bodily autonomy? The effect on the male will last a lifetime compared to just 9 months.

 

[Lacius]

You knew at what point the fetus died or knew what point it becomes alive?

@Lacius That is the best post you have made, in regarding to my post. I wouldn't like the government telling me what I can and cannot do, however in reality, they are, albeit more subtle ways.
Curious though, why does a female have more right to her bodily autonomy, then a male does to his bodily autonomy? The effect on the male will last a lifetime compared to just 9 months.

None of what we're talking about has anything to do with a man's right to bodily autonomy. Respectfully, do you know what a right to bodily autonomy means?

Edit: In other words, I'm saying men and women each have an equal right to their own bodily autonomy.

 

[RandomUser]

None of what we're talking about has anything to do with a man's right to bodily autonomy. Respectfully, do you know what a right to bodily autonomy means?

Edit: In other words, I'm saying men and women each have an equal right to their own bodily autonomy.

Maybe my definition may not align up to yours. I cannot speak for other countries, however here male born babies do not have the same rights as female born babies do. Although it is declining in practice though.

Body autonomy basically says that no one, other than the person himself, has a right to his or her body, and no one has the right to use someone else’s body without his or her full consent. This is the law, and why compatible donors cannot be forced to donate, even if he or she would save the life of the other person.
People do have a right to their own bodies before anyone else does, and yes, that’s the law.

 

[Lacius]

Maybe my definition may not align up to yours. I cannot speak for other countries, however here male born babies do not have the same rights as female born babies do. Although it is declining in practice though.

Given our agreed upon definition of what it means to have a right to bodily autonomy, I don't know what you're referring to with this part of your post:

Curious though, why does a female have more right to her bodily autonomy, then a male does to his bodily autonomy? The effect on the male will last a lifetime compared to just 9 months.

When are you saying a man's right to bodily autonomy is violated?

 

[comput3rus3r]

The other thing you don't hear feminists talking about is human baby murders which is 100% perpetrated by women and which is now the leading cause of death in the world.
https://www.lifenews.com/2018/08/02...of-death-surpassing-heart-disease-and-cancer/

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

People got tired of social justice creeping into everyday life. People got tired of being called alt right when they support all groups of people.

It is a fun thread for laughs. And I wanted to see how many people will come to try to defend what obviously shouldn’t be defended. Academic integrity should always be above bias. I like seeing people go at it in the comments. It’s entertaining.

Just look at the dislike ratio on this recent commercial and you’ll see people are tired of this stuff that starts in colleges creeping into every day life.

 

[comput3rus3r]

The other thing you don't hear feminists talking about is human baby murders which is 100% perpetrated by women and which is now the leading cause of death in the world.
https://www.lifenews.com/2018/08/02...of-death-surpassing-heart-disease-and-cancer/

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

well this is how I feel about abortion as it pertains to feminists hence why I posted in the feminist thread. but OK.

 

[mrdude]

Jings, it's a woman's body - woman's decision and is no one else's business apart from hers.

Next people will be wanting to ban masturbation, saying people that do are all mass murderers, because at one time the sperm was alive :-)

 

[comput3rus3r]

Jings, it's a woman's body - woman's decision and is no one else's business apart from hers.

Next people will be wanting to ban masturbation, saying people that do are all mass murderers, because at one time the sperm was alive :-)

it's not the woman's body, it's the baby's body attached to the woman by the umbilical cord for nutrients. Saying the baby is the woman's body is like saying the egg is the chicken's body. The fact that you don't understand the difference between a sperm and a developing human says a lot.

 

[osm70]

The other thing you don't hear feminists talking about is human baby murders which is 100% perpetrated by women and which is now the leading cause of death in the world.
https://www.lifenews.com/2018/08/02...of-death-surpassing-heart-disease-and-cancer/

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------

Let me quote a part of the article you linked:

"Yet, despite the universal acknowledgement that the act of abortion results in a death, abortion is not reported as a cause of death in the vital statistics system in the United States."

Not universal. Not at all. Many people disagree with abortion causing death, because the unborn baby isn't alive in the first place.

 

[comput3rus3r]

Let me quote a part of the article you linked:

"Yet, despite the universal acknowledgement that the act of abortion results in a death, abortion is not reported as a cause of death in the vital statistics system in the United States."

Not universal. Not at all. Many people disagree with abortion causing death, because the unborn baby isn't alive in the first place.

What part of the baby''s heart, brain and a trillion other cells do you think are not alive? Idiots disagree that murdering babies doesn't cause death because they're idiots. It'a good to know that you probably won't reproduce and if you did you will kill your baby, because we need less people in this world that think killing unborn human beings is ok.