Gaming [Poll] Do you think hackers deserve to play Pokémon competitively? Why or why not?

[Favna]

All these people only looking towards breeding in their argument but completely forgetting the legendary heavy meta game of VGC16... Please do tell me how we can IV "manipulate" random encounters?

Yeah we cannot. Sure every legendary is locked to always have 2 stats on 31 IVs but that is still only 2 out of 5 and don't even try argumenting this because if you think it's a piece of cake to get a spread like 31/0/31/30/31/30 (maximum potential hidden power fire with 0 attack for minimum foul play damage) without very specific breeding using very specific parents of which you know the exact IVs (not to mention that to know the exact you need an external program because the IVs guy cannot distinguish between 30 and 31) then you really need to check your brain cells.

 

[Clydefrosch]

I can second this. I have had a chance to peek into the way people like Wolfe Glick and Alex Ogloza through videos etc.

at least I want to say that anyone who is trash talking about garbage players, shit players etc etc has no merit in their words AT ALL until they themselves can make it to the point where they have won a nationals VGC at least.

no one is saying they don't know the mechanics and numbers game.
and despite perfect legendaries being easier to get last gen than ever before, they still cheated.

it doesn't matter if you know -in theory- the stance and physical motions needed to lift a quarter-ton weight. if you didn't put in the time to make your body strong enough to not snap while doing that, you're still not getting a fucking medal.
if you built a machine to lift the weight while you just go through the theoretical motions, you're also not getting a medal.
even if you build yourself some kind of futuristic invisible exo-skeleton to do the heavy lifting for you that no one could find out about (this here is the parable to using pkhex in a VGC) you still don't DESERVE the medal.

From the 2016 vgc guidebook

4.1.
Illegally Manipulated Pokémon
The use of external devices, such as a mobile app, to modify or create items or Pokémon
in a player’s Battle Box is expressly forbidden. Players found to have Pokémon or items
that have been tampered with will be disqualified from competition, regardless of
whether the Pokémon or items belong to that player or were traded for.

just because there's no way for nintendo to know if you cheated to make your team or not, doesn't change the fact that its cheated and you should be disqualified.

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All these people only looking towards breeding in their argument but completely forgetting the legendary heavy meta game of VGC16... Please do tell me how we can IV "manipulate" random encounters?

Yeah we cannot. Sure every legendary is locked to always have 2 stats on 31 IVs but that is still only 2 out of 5 and don't even try argumenting this because if you think it's a piece of cake to get a spread like 31/0/31/30/31/30 (maximum potential hidden power fire with 0 attack for minimum foul play damage) without very specific breeding using very specific parents of which you know the exact IVs (not to mention that to know the exact you need an external program because the IVs guy cannot distinguish between 30 and 31) then you really need to check your brain cells.

I'm almost sure it was 3 stats and no one said it was a piece of cake, it wasn't supposed to be. but its not impossible and if you really want that perfect kyogre, you should be willing to put in the time to get it or use less time and be happy with one with a bit more atk or not HP fire.
again, stop being an entitled bitch.

 

[Favna]

Players found to have Pokémon or items
that have been tampered with will be disqualified from competition, regardless of
whether the Pokémon or items belong to that player or were traded for.

Should be =/= what happens. You are free to think it should happen, but as long as it doesn't top players won't care. At least not as long as this is the only reliable way to get the mons to win with - especially for as far as legendaries goes as i explained just now

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I'm almost sure it was 3 stats and no one said it was a piece of cake, it wasn't supposed to be. but its not impossible and if you really want that perfect kyogre, you should be willing to put in the time to get it or use less time and be happy with one with a bit more atk or not HP fire.
again, stop being an entitled bitch.

Aayyyeeee the insults are starting to fly woohoo!!

And you have to remember that at the point of encountering kyogre you cannot even go to the IV checker guy so you could've chosen a better example

 

[Clydefrosch]

I mentioned earlier that back in the RBY era there were people on Azure Heights (and possibly elsewhere) who claimed that anything that you couldn't do in a single game was 'unfair' or 'against the spirit of the game'.

For example, imagine that you had a Gen I team where 3 of your Pokémon had Earthquake, all of which had learnt it by TM. There's only one TM26 in the game, so to have achieved this 'legitimately' you would have had to own at least one other Gen I game, obtain TM26 in that game, trade your competitive mons to that game, teach them Earthquake, then trade them back (and repeat for each mon, starting a new game for each one if you only own one other Gen I game). Of course, expecting this of people would be ridiculous, but going by @LuxerWap's logic, it would be the only 'fair' thing to do, as the only alternative would be to go against 'how the game was meant to be played' by using Missingno. to duplicate TM26.

This applies much in the same way to hacking in ×999 Wings or Rare Candies in Gen VI, or, as has been mentioned earlier, genning 6IV Dittos, which (hypocritical) people don't seem to care that much about.

thats exactly right. back then, this would be the right thing to do and it wouldn't be ridiculous. millions of people played these games dozens of times back when i was young. trade with your friends to get more tms. (trading was half the point of the game, dipshit)

 

[Favna]

dipshit

More insults !! Keep em coming trigger boy

 

[Clydefrosch]

Should be =/= what happens. You are free to think it should happen, but as long as it doesn't top players won't care. At least not as long as this is the only reliable way to get the mons to win with - especially for as far as legendaries goes as i explained just now

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Aayyyeeee the insults are starting to fly woohoo!!

And you have to remember that at the point of encountering kyogre you cannot even go to the IV checker guy so you could've chosen a better example

but rules are rules. it literally does not matter what 'top players' think.
it also doesn't matter what the community thinks.
they break what little rules there are to gain an official title, arguing they NEED to cheat because everyone cheats.
when no one would need to cheat if no one cheated.
its bs logic and you know it.

you're also not entitled to the iv checker. however, there's still math to calculate your ivs manually, bringing a pokemon with a certain speed value to check for speed iv during the battle etc etc.

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More insults !! Keep em coming trigger boy

stop ignoring the arguments that precede my insults, asshole.
but you really can't. there's no acceptable argument to justify cheating. its still cheating.
its still cheating if you don't call it that.
its still cheating if it saves you time.
its still cheating if you have a reason to cheat.

and acting as if that isn't true, does make you a dipshit, dipshit.
not to mention, insults have been flying all the time already.

 

[Favna]

you're also not entitled to the iv checker. however, there's still math to calculate your ivs manually, bringing a pokemon with a certain speed value to check for speed iv during the battle etc etc.

Yes math is a thing - but you'd need the stats across various levels to determine it exactly. Idk if you have ever done a manual IV checking round but from my own experience I can tell you that it'll come down to ranges of like 25-30 without having stats across 4 or 5 levels. I could look at the stats of my level 100 Kyogre right now and out them into an IV calc and I can guarantee you it will at best tell me 30-31 as a range and it just so happens that the difference between 30 and 31 is extremely crucial. You would know this if you were actually investing time playing competitively instead of brainlessly bashing those who do but with cheated mons

stop ignoring the arguments that precede my insults, asshole.
but you really can't. there's no acceptable argument to justify cheating. its still cheating.
its still cheating if you don't call it that.
its still cheating if it saves you time.
its still cheating if you have a reason to cheat.

and acting as if that isn't true, does make you a dipshit, dipshit.

Well here ya go. I didn't ignore it. That said - I have all reason to ignore if you decide insulting and name calling is the only way to have a conversation that once started as a civil one.

 

[Fishaman P]

I went to my local VGC Regional in 2015, and there were probably 80% hackers there, disturbingly including multiple Top 8.
TO's ran random hack checks, and blatantly edited teams (shiny, hex flawless, contest star ribbon) passed no problem.
Absolutely ruined my experience, likely not going back.

 

[SonicCloud]

i dont care about competitive tbh, it has been years since i last cared.
But in my opinion, i think they should no matter is they hack or not.
What here depends is on how you build your team and your strategy

 

[Clydefrosch]

Yes math is a thing - but you'd need the stats across various levels to determine it exactly. Idk if you have ever done a manual IV checking round but from my own experience I can tell you that it'll come down to ranges of like 25-30 without having stats across 4 or 5 levels.




Well here ya go. I didn't ignore it. That said - I have all reason to ignore if you decide insulting and name calling is the only way to have a conversation that once started as a civil one.

of course i have, i've been playing these games for years, long before there were gts checkers or online battles that set all your pokemons level to 50 and stuff like that.
and it's not rocket science to bring a handful of rare candies.
it comes down to ranges for newly breed pokemon. but not for the lvl 50+ legendaries. the worst you get there is a +/- 2 range from the get-go and that only rarely, it usually comes down to +/-1 and is resolved after 2 rarecandies.

so i call bs, your argument is false, deliberately so i would assume, specifically for the kyogre situation you described earlier.

and of course you ignore it still. the pro-cheating side has been ignoring the simple truth that cheating is cheating since page one, throwing excuse after excuse at it, arguing at best, flimsy semantics and 'my time, my time, its not about the advantage in online-play, but just about time, not that I don't take that advantage happily and all, but really, its just about time and you know you can't play pokemon without perfect pokemon, at all'

again, the discussion hasn't been civil for a while, not from you specifically, or at least i'm too lazy to check.
but stop using one word at the end of my argument as an excuse for not having to deal with the content of my arguments. its a pretty shallow tactic when it comes to arguing, as are insults, of course. but note, i'm not just insulting people without arguing at all, which is exactly the situation in which you have a good reason to say 'I'm not arguing with you anymore'.
you can chose to think less of me as a person, no problem.

but if you believe you are on the right side of this argument, argue how cheating is not cheating, if not for me, then for the benefit of the entire thread

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i dont care about competitive tbh, it has been years since i last cared.
But in my opinion, i think they should no matter is they hack or not.
What here depends is on how you build your team and your strategy

only thats not true. according to everyone who cheats, having perfect pokemon is at least as important as your team building and strategy.
else they wouldn't insist on needing perfect pokemon, which of course, gives them an edge over anyone who doesn't do the same.

 

[Favna]

*sigh* Fine. Do as you please. I'm done making a fuss over it...

But rules are rules, if you want to break it, go for it...

At least I'm playing it safe. Better safe than sorry.

btw... I just sent this message to a discord server and the embedded preview image was this guy's profile picture. Only then I realized it's a furry image.

It all makes sense now. He's in the same disgusting furry fandom as Verlisify.

bring a handful of rare candies.

Except every game only has a handful of rare candies in total so either you'd need 2 consoles and 2 games with 1 constantly doing new games just to get more rare candies, or you'd have to clone them which is by your standard cheating. Starting to thread the hypocritical route there mate.

the worst you get there is a +/- 2 range from the get-go and that only rarely, it usually comes down to +/-1 and is resolved after 2 rarecandies.

Except the +/-1 difference is actually extremely important because if you have a 30 speed Kangaskhan, or anything for that matter, you will whatsoever lose an otherwise RNG speed tie to a 31 kangaskhan, or again anything else for that matter.

of course i have, i've been playing these games for years, long before there were gts checkers or online battles that set all your pokemons level to 50 and stuff like that.

Can you provide proof of this? I can't find a Clyde Frosch in any German nationals or regionals.

which is exactly the situation in which you have a good reason to say 'I'm not arguing with you anymore'.

Then why do you keep replying. Your actions are contradicting your words.

 

[Xiphiidae]

~snip~

Virtually every argument you have made has been a complete strawman; you're not actually addressing anything that any 'pro-genners' have argued.

they break what little rules there are [...] arguing they NEED to cheat because everyone cheats.

No-one in this thread has said this. The arguments being genning have been to save time breeding and training: the end result is the same as if they did breed and train their Pokémon normally, they just want to cut out the middleman and get to battling.

At no point have you actually addressed the fact that genned and legit mons are byte-for-byte identical, and whether they have been genned or legitimately trained/bred affects anyone in any way at all ever.

And don't resort to baseless insults, please. If you have valid points, let them stand on their own merits. As far as I can tell, the only people throwing insults have been the 'moral' anti-genners.

I went to my local VGC Regional in 2015, and there were probably 80% hackers there, disturbingly including multiple Top 8.

How did you know for certain that they were hacked?

 

[AydenTheKilla]

Just cause you have the Pokémon doesnt mean that you'll be any good at competitive battles. That takes time, effort, and patience.

Some of us sadly do not have 100's of hours to raise one pokemon. Or do not want to/can not go to GameStop to get a certain event pokemon.

The guys that bitch are either Pokémon extremist, or they cannot inject .pk6 files and are jealous.

Meanwhile im still in love with my shiny Arceus and shiny Xernas i can use in competitive play

 

[escequi]

but rules are rules. it literally does not matter what 'top players' think.
it also doesn't matter what the community thinks.
they break what little rules there are to gain an official title, arguing they NEED to cheat because everyone cheats.
when no one would need to cheat if no one cheated.
its bs logic and you know it.

you're also not entitled to the iv checker. however, there's still math to calculate your ivs manually, bringing a pokemon with a certain speed value to check for speed iv during the battle etc etc.

--------------------- MERGED ---------------------------



stop ignoring the arguments that precede my insults, asshole.
but you really can't. there's no acceptable argument to justify cheating. its still cheating.
its still cheating if you don't call it that.
its still cheating if it saves you time.
its still cheating if you have a reason to cheat.

and acting as if that isn't true, does make you a dipshit, dipshit.
not to mention, insults have been flying all the time already.

If you're all about the rules, tell me you never used an emulator? Because you know, playing gbc/gba roms is illegal... Unless you're an hypocrite, which would make your opinion worthless

 

[Arkansaw]

For anything to qualify as "cheating", it needs to be proven to be an infringement of some rule. You can have all the rules, but ultimately they are useless without proof.

 

[AydenTheKilla]

If you're all about the rules, tell me you never used an emulator? Because you know, playing gbc/gba roms is illegal

Not if you own the game. You can get around it. And emulators are not illegal either. The only things that are illegal is downloading a game you dont already own. Or obtaining someone elses bios files for an emulator or uploading yours to online

 

[escequi]

Not if you own the game. You can get around it. And emulators are not illegal either. The only things that are illegal is downloading a game you dont already own. Or having the bios files for an emulator

Nope, even if own the game, its only legal if you backup yourself

 

[AydenTheKilla]

Nope, even if own the game, its only legal if you backup yourself

Thats clearly what i meant

 

[Hyoretsu]

Pokémon are not tools your entertainment. They are born from an Egg to a fully grown creature.

Look! I just got an Arceus egg!

Then you guys are sad if that's what you only think about Pokémon...

No, you're just a loser who prefers to create bonds with bits of data inside of a game than to create bonds with real people.
GF: Honey, do you want to spend the holidays on my house?
You: Sorry, I can't. I gotta hatch this box of Charmander's egg because I want a black flying lizard that's not a dragon.
She ditches you the next day.

As far as I know, genning Pokémon is considered cheating and therefore, not fun at all.

Cheating in video games involves a video game player using non-standard methods to create an advantage or disadvantage BEYOND NORMAL GAMEPLAY, in order to make the game easier or harder. (Straight from Wikipedia)

I'm pretty sure that only says something about the Battle Box and competitions, not normal boxes and normal online gameplay.

But that breaks the fun of the games. Game Freak tries to make to make it easier for everyone. Hell, IV training in Sun and Moon have gotten easier, and you guys STILL want to use PKHex?! Highly unfair.

How exactly does it breaks the fun of the games? Just because you get mad at other that do this?

because theres a reason they don't give you access to your pokemon from ORAS right off the bat.

I'm pretty sure that you can get all your precious Pokés as soon as you get the Pokédex.

stop ignoring the arguments that precede my insults, asshole.
but you really can't. there's no acceptable argument to justify cheating. its still cheating.
its still cheating if you don't call it that.
its still cheating if it saves you time.
its still cheating if you have a reason to cheat.

and acting as if that isn't true, does make you a dipshit, dipshit.
not to mention, insults have been flying all the time already.

Looks like we got a child pissed off.

Absolutely ruined my experience, likely not going back.

Why? Just because you don't have good Pokés? That's your problem, not ours. If you want to play competitive with your normal gameplay team, you'll surely lose.

 

[koyuki38]

All these people only looking towards breeding in their argument but completely forgetting the legendary heavy meta game of VGC16... Please do tell me how we can IV "manipulate" random encounters?

Yeah we cannot. Sure every legendary is locked to always have 2 stats on 31 IVs but that is still only 2 out of 5 and don't even try argumenting this because if you think it's a piece of cake to get a spread like 31/0/31/30/31/30 (maximum potential hidden power fire with 0 attack for minimum foul play damage) without very specific breeding using very specific parents of which you know the exact IVs (not to mention that to know the exact you need an external program because the IVs guy cannot distinguish between 30 and 31) then you really need to check your brain cells.

You don't manipulate random encounter, that's also why you don't play with legendary