Hardware Miyamoto on future hardware after Wii U

[Ray Lewis]

The account system should be like the Sony model. It should follow you.

 

[shinkodachi]

Here a few reasons I can think of why they went with Power. The complexity of the Power architecture that makes it a headache to write working machine code for also makes it harder to hack. That and it isn't what a software "reverse engineer" is used to. 99% of the software crackers out there won't touch RISC with a ten foot pole. Even if they implemented some custom instructions, if the thing is basically an x86, it doesn't pose much of an obstacle to hackers.

Yet the Wii U was fully hacked pretty much out of the gate: https://fail0verflow.com/blog/2013/espresso.html. Software crackers don't care about CISC or RISC and they rarely need to write machine code to achieve what they want. Why else would there be Android and iPhone jailbreaking/rooting going on if RISC alone poses that much a threat to reverse engineers? ARM and PowerPC are neither x86. That's fact.

The point here is that there's better portability between PC and console architecture if both are x86. Try understanding it from the point of view that a developer can fully program, debug, test on a PC and move the resulting code to a console for final testing. This has not been the case prior to this generation, as developers had to invest in expensive custom development kits and software to write/debug code. High level code is only as portable as its related software libraries, which has already been established in this thread. That doesn't mean however, that a game developer can copy code from a PlayStation 4 version of a game to the Xbox One and everything will work 100% just because they use very similar architecture. (Just simplifying here to prove my point.)

 

[aofelix]

Its underpowered for games like Dragon Age Inquisition and Witcher 3.

Without really drawing back on the graphical fidelity of a game and making many customizations, a Wii U simply can't stand up to the PS4/XBOX one versions. Yes, with good optimisations and excellent porting, it could work okay... but its A LOT of hassle for developers with very little in terms of money back because the install base is so small.

1080p and 60fps don't mean a game is perfect graphically. They're buzz words which have slowly drawn into the dumb public perception. Anyone that does any research will see Anti Aliasing, tessellation etc. etc. are far more difficult but yes so beautiful when done correctly.

I'm not arguing with your point that MK8 and pretty much every Wii U first party title looks BEAUTIFUL but you have to understand these developers and not going to make their games from the ground for the Wii U's technical specifications and architecture UNLESS the money is there... and its not.

 

[aofelix]

And yes, shinkodachi is spot on when he says theres better portability between the PC and Console... to the extent, games are made on the PC first and then ported to the consoles. FF15 and KH3 not being put on PC despite being developed on them is just blatant big console pay offs to square Enix (which I don't mind... it is a huge system seller). In all reality, PCs are just too powerful now and year to year become stronger and better so going along with their architecture works well for the developers.

Happy developers = key to third party titles.

This conspiracy theory sometimes gets thrown about that third party developers don't like Nintendo... Its not true. They love wherever they can make the most money and Nintendo put restrictions on their hardware so that its just not possible for people to work and port easily.

 

[shinkodachi]

1080p and 60fps don't mean a game is perfect graphically. They're buzz words which have slowly drawn into the dumb public perception. Anyone that does any research will see Anti Aliasing, tessellation etc. etc. are far more difficult but yes so beautiful when done correctly.

Well said. Besides, it's not like 60fps is a new thing: a lot of older generation games ran at 60Hz (or 50Hz in PAL territories). Nowadays we don't deal with PAL or NTSC TV systems or frequencies, but 60Hz and 60fps is essentially the same thing, just expressed differently.

I'm not arguing with your point that MK8 and pretty much every Wii U first party title looks BEAUTIFUL but you have to understand these developers and not going to make their games from the ground for the Wii U's technical specifications and architecture UNLESS the money is there... and its not.

Thank you. This is a point that a lot of people seem to discount because Nintendo as a first party has created graphically beautiful games. And yet Mario Kart 8 is rendered at 720p and runs at 59fps.

 

[aofelix]

Honestly Nintendo are just amazing developers. I honestly believe if MS or Sony tried to make MK8, it would be ugly as hell with the same resources Nintendo work with.

However that does come at a cost. Nintendo's developers are NOT in tune with cutting edge technology. Nintendo admitted the jump from SD to HD this generation really was a shock to their system of work and they underestimated how difficult it is.

For the next gen, I really think Nintendo shouldn't leave such a big gap between them and the competition and they need to make the peripherals like the gamepad optional FOR third party developers AND have a standardized controllers. Imagine how difficult it is for a developer to program for the wii mote, pro controller AND gamepad. I think its beautiful of Nintendo to offer us those options and for me, its a selling point.. but for developers its a huge hassle.

Also next generation.. please please please please add more connectivity and interaction with the whatever the new new 3DS will be and the new Wii U console. The 3DS is so huge and ridiculously popular, it could probably sell Wii U's by itself if nintendo just marketed them better AND actually provided some type of interaction between the two past "omg use ur 3ds as a smash bros controlah!".



Finally they need to advertise and stop their "niche" titles being "niche" titles. Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta aren't really all that niche. Some good marketing could easily have fixed the problem. I see niche titles as what the Vita gets.. Bayo and W101 don't fall into that category.

 

[aofelix]

Also fire whoever is in charge of naming the consoles.

Just fire them.

Full stop.

Out the door.

 

[DebugErr]

As if a name is a big problem -.-

 

[aofelix]

As if a name is a big problem -.-

You are being sarcastic right? The name is a huge problem. The wii's major fanbase was non-gamers. The reason the wii was successful was because it got people who didn't game... to buy a games console due to the attraction of wii sports, motion controls etc.

The problem is the general public don't recognise the Wii U is a new console. A lot of people think the Wii U is just a gamepad add-on.

Then we have the problem with the name Wii from a gamers perspective. The Wii was not a gamers console last gen. The real gaming was at the PC/360/PS3. Therefore from a branding perspective, you're not going to grab a PS3 or XBOX 360 owner and make them get a Wii U... because they already associate the wii as a more family/kiddy console.



Branding is HUGE. Good branding can make up for technical faults (please see: the Wii / every console which has won a generation loljk).

 

[shinkodachi]

Honestly Nintendo are just amazing developers. I honestly believe if MS or Sony tried to make MK8, it would be ugly as hell with the same resources Nintendo work with.

Codemasters tried to make F1 Race Stars and that was... Well, I digress.

However that does come at a cost. Nintendo's developers are NOT in tune with cutting edge technology. Nintendo admitted the jump from SD to HD this generation really was a shock to their system of work and they underestimated how difficult it is.

It's also worrying how they're talking about development of current titles. Miyamoto and Aonuma keep saying that due to hardware limitations their previous Zelda titles had to have separate sections as opposed to a continuous world, and that thanks to the Wii U it's now possible to have a huge area that's not sliced into smaller parts. My problem with that statement is that during the Wii era they had access to higher performing hardware, but chose to neglect it. Sakurai said 8-player Smash was supposed to already come out in Melee, but it took Nintendo two full generations to finally provide their own developers with hardware enabling what they had envisioned a long time ago. That's troublesome.

For the next gen, I really think Nintendo shouldn't leave such a big gap between them and the competition and they need to make the peripherals like the gamepad optional FOR third party developers AND have a standardized controllers. Imagine how difficult it is for a developer to program for the wii mote, pro controller AND gamepad. I think its beautiful of Nintendo to offer us those options and for me, its a selling point.. but for developers its a huge hassle.

I agree 100%, I believe Nintendo will make a barebones gaming system going back to their roots to when you just picked up a controller and played games. No gimmicks, no extras. It'd be interesting to see what Nintendo is going to do next year as the NES will have its 30th birthday in the US...

Finally they need to advertise and stop their "niche" titles being "niche" titles. Wonderful 101 and Bayonetta aren't really all that niche. Some good marketing could easily have fixed the problem. I see niche titles as what the Vita gets.. Bayo and W101 don't fall into that category.

Nintendo's marketing needs an overhaul. I really don't know why they don't bank on their heritage and make it a selling point. They have more than just Mario, so why not bring it up? Here, take a look at this awesome PS4 ad from Sony. Really makes me want to go out to just buy the PS4 this instant if I didn't have one already.

 

[aofelix]

Codemasters tried to make F1 Race Stars and that was... Well, I digress.
It's also worrying how they're talking about development of current titles. Miyamoto and Aonuma keep saying that due to hardware limitations their previous Zelda titles had to have separate sections as opposed to a continuous world, and that thanks to the Wii U it's now possible to have a huge area that's not sliced into smaller parts. My problem with that statement is that during the Wii era they had access to higher performing hardware, but chose to neglect it. Sakurai said 8-player Smash was supposed to already come out in Melee, but it took Nintendo two full generations to finally provide their own developers with hardware enabling what they had envisioned a long time ago. That's troublesome.
I agree 100%, I believe Nintendo will make a barebones gaming system going back to their roots to when you just picked up a controller and played games. No gimmicks, no extras. It'd be interesting to see what Nintendo is going to do next year as the NES will have its 30th birthday in the US...
Nintendo's marketing needs an overhaul. I really don't know why they don't bank on their heritage and make it a selling point. They have more than just Mario, so why not bring it up? Here, take a look at this awesome PS4 ad from Sony. Really makes me want to go out to just buy the PS4 this instant if I didn't have one already.

I actually think they won't give up on their gimmicks and I don't really mind that. But they need to attach a normal controller TOO! I actually like the gamepad, its excellent. It makes gaming that much more personal and it gives me something that PCs/PS4s/XB1s can't compete with. Its fun, its interactive, its beautiful... the problem is its being poorly marketed and poorly utilised... and I think if the finances are true... was just too expensive to make for this generation. I read they can make a 50-80$ cut if they exclude the gamepad.. that tells me they introduced this technology one gen too early as its a huge premium to put on a console for a peripheral.

They chose to neglect higher end hardware during the Wii era because the gamecube bombed. Nintendo paid big money for exlucives to come to the title which were "mature" like every Resident Evil game, Eternal Darkness etc... and they didn't do well. Nintendo had to rethink its marketing and its target audience as back to back losses in a generation would be really hard to stomach. The Wii was genius tbh from a financial and marketing perspective but it basically said to every hardcoreamer, we don't need you.


YEah LOL Sonys marketting is nuts. Honestly they have basically NOTHING in terms of exclusive on their consoles but due to excellent marketing deals, they push games like COD/Dragon Age/FIFA and people are going out in hoards to buy them. Even Sony's OS and multimedia capabilities are pretty crap compared to the XBOX One. What they've done this generation is genius and pretty much down to an excellent job of saving their brand name last generation by pumping out as many PS3's at low prices as they could, giving away a tonne of free crap on PS+ to entice loyalty for gamers AND releasing AMAZING exclusives near the end of the generation through Uncharted 2, Uncharted 3, TLOU, Ni no kuni etc.

Its sad that they've totally bombed the handheld market though. If I were Sony... I'd wonder if theres any point even making a successor to the Vita as they couldn't be arsed to market or even support it till the end of its cycle.. or even push it with PS4s. Bewildering.

 

[aofelix]

Oh that advert was awesome BTW.

The way they make console gaming "cool" and "modern" is really smart.

Nintendo could market themselves 100% better. That gamepad is fun as hell, Nintendoland is excellent at entertaining family, friends and girls. They've really missed so many tricks in the West. But then again.. in the UK, you need FIFA. You need COD. You need those utterly crap rubbish repetitive games to sell to the masses.. only then will they think of buying that 10/10 bayonetta game. No one is buying a console for a low profile game regardless of reviews.

 

[shinkodachi]

I actually think they won't give up on their gimmicks and I don't really mind that. But they need to attach a normal controller TOO! I actually like the gamepad, its excellent. It makes gaming that much more personal and it gives me something that PCs/PS4s/XB1s can't compete with. Its fun, its interactive, its beautiful... the problem is its being poorly marketed and poorly utilised... and I think if the finances are true... was just too expensive to make for this generation. I read they can make a 50-80$ cut if they exclude the gamepad.. that tells me they introduced this technology one gen too early as its a huge premium to put on a console for a peripheral.

As much as I love the GamePad, it creates a hindrance for developers. Simply porting a game to the Wii U won't suffice, so extra work must be done to add GamePad support. That's not exactly how you want developers to approach your platform. Nintendo already toyed with a similar idea back with the GameCube and GameBoy Advance Link Cable. Things like seeing the map on a second screen in Wind Waker isn't new to the Wii U, that was possible with the GameCube already. And the competition has had Remote Play / SmartGlass for a full generation now and they're pushing it more than Nintendo has pushed the GamePad. The fact Sony is selling PlayStation TV as an accessory to the PS4 so you can play in another room should tell us something. Nintendo just made the wrong calls when making the GamePad. It's great, but the execution is just poor.

The Wii was genius tbh from a financial and marketing perspective but it basically said to every hardcoreamer, we don't need you.

And that's why the Wii sucks from a business perspective. If you create a single hit-seller and fail to reproduce your sales with the next iteration, you are a failure. Plain simple.

YEah LOL Sonys marketting is nuts. Honestly they have basically NOTHING in terms of exclusive on their consoles but due to excellent marketing deals, they push games like COD/Dragon Age/FIFA and people are going out in hoards to buy them.

That's why PS4 is excellent: the marketing ensures there's a huge user base, which attracts game developers, and once the games are coming, they will practically sell themselves. With Nintendo you have a small user base, which pushes game developers away. It also means Nintendo is in a position where their games must justify the added expense of their console, because it's likely that a gamer already has a PS4 / Xbox One rather than a Wii U. And that's due to the Wii's success turning into a failure this generation.

Its sad that they've totally bombed the handheld market though. If I were Sony... I'd wonder if theres any point even making a successor to the Vita as they couldn't be arsed to market or even support it till the end of its cycle.. or even push it with PS4s. Bewildering.

I don't think there will be a follow-up to the Vita... At least, not a commercially successful one.

 

[aofelix]

Yup you're right, the gamepad is a hindrance to developers which is why I think a wii U pro controller should be bundled too or even made mandatory whilst the gamepad an accessory. People WILL buy the gamepad as it enhances some games so well (like Nintendoland) but you need to let people figure that out for themselves in situations like this gen.

I think the PS TV will bomb personally. Its a crap idea which PCs do way better with Steam's streaming.

Well I wouldn't call the Wii a single hit seller... it sold and won a generation by a huge margin with very little financial outlay. what Nintendo failed to do was entice and migrate those old users over to this gen.. and when you have a name like Wii U and a new gamepad with the same motion controls... you can forgive those fans for thinking its just an add-on. I agree though in that they should have pushed (once again) a normal controller with the wii, so that gamers didn't feel alienated.

Yup you are totally right although the Sony's model of success can only go so far. The company as a whole is doing terribly so they will have less resources to make first party titles which will be needed to sell the system later on down the line. Third party wise, there is no doubt that unless PC Gaming gets the publicity it deserves (which it wont due to its inaccessibility), Sony has the best third party exclusives this generation.

However, I wouldn't rule out the XBOX one from making a come back. The problem with the XBOXONE is they don't seem to buy real exclusives. They either get a game which can play on the PC and XB1 or even worse they buy timed exclusives which suck too. I can't wait for Tomb Raider vs Uncharted though. That should be awesome. I personally think TR was the better game but Uncharted makes me feel like I'm in a film (well at least uncharted 2 did, uncharted 1 made me feel like I'm playing a shit shit shit video game).

 

[MisterB]

I didn't know Scalebound was coming to Wii U...

Nintendo also isn't known to be in the habit of shopping for exclusives. The best they can come up with is Lego City Undercover.

I would rather have a new Lego game like this than one that is on every console.

It's nice that they have implemented off screen multiplayer, but the extra gameplay you got with undercover realy should have been in every lego game on Wii U. It made it very unique and not the little brother of the other consoles.

Little edit:

Looked up Scalebound and saw it was xbox1 exclusive. But looking at Xenoblade this might not be bad. Both look like they have the same gameplay. Only WiiU has an offscreen map.

 

[RevPokemon]

Another problem is that Wii u never has commercials where ms or Sony do (nbc,abc, ESPN and what not) rather it's on kid channels

 

[WiiCube_2013]

Whatever they do they must have analogue triggers on their next-gen Nintendo home console's controller because it's ridiculous that the Wii U Pro Controller didn't.

 

[RevPokemon]

Whatever they do they must have analogue triggers on their next-gen Nintendo home console because it's ridiculous that the Wii U didn't.

They should just re use the GameCube controller

 

[Walker D]

I hope Nintendo next era decide to get off their high horse and actually give developers what they want. I only want them to this for their own sake. I can afford 2 consoles and I have a gaming PC for my third party needs... but I do feel sorry for Nintendo fans who can only afford one console and also want to get in on the action of the triple A titles from third parties.

I kinda agree with your previous lines, but not at all with this.

IMO they should never "give developers what they want". If they simply do so, then we would get a Nintendo PC ....and the gaming hardware world would get completely bland..
When Nintendo do that I'll be sure that it finally gave up completely, threw its principles in the trash and let specs win over experience/gameplay.

I'm not saying Nintendo need to be terrible to work with (and by what I know from real devs that worked with them, and from how its indie program is, they are not that bad to work with at all). I'm saying they should care about what hardware will have new experiences and better gameplay, and keep trying to evolve the media hardware-wise.

No need to let it get stale ...Since when devs know what they need? ..they only know what they "want", or what is more convenient.

 

[shinkodachi]

No need to let it get stale ...Since when devs know what they need? ..they only know what they "want", or what is more convenient.

Convenience is ultimately better for everyone. If Nintendo consoles shared 90% of the content available for other consoles at equal quality, but have that 10% of original content differentiating them, then that's the perfect console for Nintendo.

Nintendo's first and only priority when designing a game console is to make the hardware platform convenient for developers to play around with and develop for. If they impose too many restrictions on the hardware or make it difficult for developers to use, then they have failed. That's as simple as it gets. Game developers' first and only priority when designing games is to make something that appeals to the masses. If you mix these roles, e.g. having Nintendo design a console around a game that Miyamoto or someone else had in mind, then you get a convoluted situation where only your first party developers know their way around the console, but third parties not. And that's where we are with the Wii U.