Hardware New Faster Lighter 3DS Console Announced

[DiscostewSM]

It's an interesting thing. The New 3DS, imo, is much like the refresh the DSi is, except it is getting/retaining more than what the DSi. The n3DS is getting an actual retail exclusive (which the DSi never got if you discount DSWare), some of the features built-in are available externally (CPP guess, and soon-to-be NFC), and it retains the backwards compatibility of the last-gen games (DSi lost GBA BC). Now, I don't know if I'll ever get it, but it has piqued my interest. Will wait for more info about it.

This is something though. Could Xenoblade Chronicles on n3DS be a digital-only game? At the very least if it was, then it would prevent people from purchasing it physically, expecting it to play in their o3DSs and not be able to.

 

[VMM]

It's an interesting thing. The New 3DS, imo, is much like the refresh the DSi is, except it is getting/retaining more than what the DSi. The n3DS is getting an actual retail exclusive (which the DSi never got if you discount DSWare).

It had some exclusive catridge games, none made success but they still exist, one of them is shown below:

Spoiler

 

[doorbell8423]

If patches allowing the games to utilize the superior specs of the system come out - sure. If not, no. Future games will probably utilize the better specs though.

what do you mean? what patches?
I mean fps is not locked right? like on PC games, the better PC you got, the better FPS you have... right?

 

[kineticUk]

I used to respect nintendo...

 

[Foxi4]

what do you mean? what patches? I mean fps is not locked right? like on PC games, the better PC you got, the better FPS you have... right?

That's not how console games work, or at least not Nintendo's consoles for the most part. Everything depends on the firmware - if there is an underlying runtime then the application that's currently running will always try to sync with the refresh rate, thus it will never be "too fast", but it can be "too slow" if there are insufficient resources and it can't keep up. If there is no runtime, the application syncs with CPU clicks instead and any increase of the CPU frequency leads to the application running "physically faster" so to speak - that's the case on the DS, for instance.



This video will show you what I mean by synchronising with CPU timing. I don't really know if the 3DS has a runtime embedded or if the games run on bare metal.

 

[henn64]

Whipped up an image comparison for myself, thought I would share.
Ain't no portable Wii.
New 3DS vs Wii (Youtube Screencap *NOT AT ALL 100% ACCURATE*)

Spoiler: Huge images

Raw screencap
N3DS

Wii

Cropped to match

N3DS

Wii

Wii image cropped/shrunk instead of blowing up the N3DS image and making it look 10x uglier.

 

[Shadow#1]

Whipped up an image comparison for myself, thought I would share.
Still doesn't match up to the Wii *yet.*
New 3DS vs Wii (Youtube Screencap *NOT COMPLETELY ACCURATE*)

Spoiler: Huge images

Raw screencap
N3DS
View attachment 10154
Wii
View attachment 10155


Cropped to match

N3DS
View attachment 10152

Wii
View attachment 10153
Wii image cropped/shrunk instead of blowing up the N3DS image and making it look 10x uglier.

u might be retarded

 

[dario14]

If the new 3ds can play Wii ports, this proves how under-powered the Wii was. I'd rather see GameCube games in the wiiu's eshop

 

[Foxi4]

Ha! Cutting polygons wherever they can!

 

[Arras]

Why is everything so bright on the 3DS pic? Did they cheap out on the lighting too, or did the event just happen at a different time of the day?

 

[TemplarGR]

1. You can't really compare the two ports, because the 3ds one plays on a lower resolution.

2. The 3ds has about half the cpu and gpu processing power, but more ram and vram*.

3. The 3ds has much faster media access compared to the dvd drive of the Wii.

4. Although the Wii has double the gpu power, it renders on a higher resolution (480p compared to 240p) and it lacks the shader-like features of the PICA200, so they are about even in terms of what they can output. At least on the primary screen. Usually the lower screen is not used for graphically intensive purposes.

5. Xenoblade was perfectly possible on the older hardware, don't let Nintendo's PR fool you. Sure, it would need some changes to better fit the 3ds hardware, but to say that it was in no way possible is a blatant lie. Nintendo 64 vs the DS had similar differences, and they ported Super Mario 64, Diddy kong racing and Ridge Racer 64 just fine... They just want to sell more hardware, especially gateway-free hardware...

*That is why it is absurd to say that Xenoblade needs more ram, especially since the 3ds has cartridges also so it doesn't need to buffer data so heavily...

 

[Guild McCommunist]

1. You can't really compare the two ports, because the 3ds one plays on a lower resolution.

2. The 3ds has about half the cpu and gpu processing power, but more ram.

3. The 3ds has much faster media access compared to the dvd drive of the Wii.

4. Although the Wii has double the gpu power, it renders on a higher resolution (480p compared to 360p) and it lacks the shader-like features of the PICA200, so they are about even in terms of what they can output.

5. Xenoblade was perfectly possible on the older hardware, don't let Nintendo's PR fool you. Sure, it would need some changes to better fit the 3ds hardware, but to say that it was in no way possible is a blatant lie. Nintendo 64 vs the DS had similar differences, and they ported Super Mario 64, Diddy kong racing and Ridge Racer 64 just fine... They just want to sell more hardware, especially gateway-free hardware...

Why are people treating Gateway like it's Nintendo's bogeyman or something? It's the only cart on the market, it barely works, and people panic every time there's a system update. Nintendo doesn't develop a new system to fight the small percentage of Gateway users, they do it to make more money and sell more units period.

They'll fight piracy where they can, but this isn't the biggest threat to their commerce like people make it out to be. And honestly, Gateway is shit, just buy the goddamn games.

 

[jakrodriguez]

Why is everything so bright on the 3DS pic? Did they cheap out on the lighting too, or did the event just happen at a different time of the day?

I'm pretty sure the event happened at a different time on the 3ds version.
In the Wii version I believe that event could happen in the day or at night.

 

[TemplarGR]

Why are people treating Gateway like it's Nintendo's bogeyman or something? It's the only cart on the market, it barely works, and people panic every time there's a system update. Nintendo doesn't develop a new system to fight the small percentage of Gateway users, they do it to make more money and sell more units period.

They'll fight piracy where they can, but this isn't the biggest threat to their commerce like people make it out to be. And honestly, Gateway is shit, just buy the goddamn games.

Of course, the primary reason is always to sell more hardware and potentially allow for lazy (aka less costly) ports. When you hear Iwata say that Xenoblade wasn't possible on the older 3ds, he doesn't completely lie. He justs omits the last part of the phrase: ... without investing more resources and making less profits.

Nintendo is f*ing greedy. Of course it is a company, and companies exist to make money. And i am a customer, and i have every right to complain and publish my criticism when they want to invest less and less and demand more and more money...

The Gateway is not their primary concern, but as long as they exist their is always the possibility than a new exploit and an improved Gateway will make piracy more widespread. They will always strive to make everything difficult for them.

 

[Satangel]

Looks great, if the price is right, I might consider it. Really want to experience the new premier titles myself, but not really keen on spending too much €€€

 

[hippy dave]

The goggles, they do nothing!

 

[Foxi4]

2. The 3ds has about half the cpu and gpu processing power, but more ram and vram*.

3DS CPU: 2x ARM11 MPCore @ 268MHz
ARM11MPCore - 530 DMIPS per core (Dual-Core Area Optimized) @ 427MHz, 1.24 DMIPS per cycle per core (530/427)
1.24 * 268 * 2 = 664,64 DMIPS total
Aprox. 0.55 GFLOPS (results based on ARM11 - 0.5 FLOPS @ 482MHz)

3DS GPU: PICA200 @ 268MHz
PICA200 - 15.3 millions of polygons per second, 4.8 GFLOPS @ 200MHz
Adjusted to 3DS clockspeed - 20.502 millions of polygons per second, 6.432 GFLOPS

Wii CPU: Broadway (Modified PPC 750) @ 729MHz
PowerPC 750 - 525 MIPS @ 233MHz, 2.3 DMIPS per cycle per core (525/233)
729 * 2.3 = 1676,7 DMIPS total
2.9 GFLOPS

Wii GPU: Hollywood @ 243MHz
Hollywood - aprox. 9 - 18 millions polygons per second (Based on the Flipper, just running faster. Full quality, not flat-shaded polygons counted. Higher polycounts could be achieved at the cost of quality/performace from what I'm reading)
Aprox. 12.9 GFLOPS

Basing this on several sources, should you wish to double-check my maths:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_second#Timeline_of_instructions_per_second
http://www.arm.com/products/processors/classic/arm11/arm11-mpcore.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadway_(microprocessor)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_(graphics_chip)
http://3dbrew.org/wiki/Hardware#GPU
http://kyokojap.myweb.hinet.net/gpu_gflops/
http://dctradio.webcindario.com/gamecube.html
http://www.bsc.es/sites/default/files/public/mare_nostrum/hpcac2012-15_mont_blanc.pdf

 

[TemplarGR]

3DS CPU: 2x ARM11 MPCore @ 268MHz
ARM11MPCore - 530 DMIPS per core (Dual-Core Area Optimized) @ 427MHz, 1.24 DMIPS per cycle per core (530/427)
1.24 * 268 * 2 = 664,64 DMIPS total
Aprox. 0.55 GFLOPS (results based on ARM11 - 0.5 FLOPS @ 482MHz)

3DS GPU: PICA200 @ 268MHz
PICA200 - 15.3 millions of polygons per second, 4.8 GFLOPS @ 200MHz
Adjusted to 3DS clockspeed - 20.502 millions of polygons per second, 6.432 GFLOPS

Wii CPU: Broadway (Modified PPC 750) @ 729MHz
PowerPC 750 - 525 MIPS @ 233MHz, 2.3 DMIPS per cycle per core (525/233)
729 * 2.3 = 1676,7 DMIPS total
2.9 GFLOPS

Wii GPU: Hollywood @ 243MHz
Hollywood - aprox. 9 - 18 millions polygons per second (full quality, not flat-shaded), 11 GFLOPS (based on the Flipper, just running faster. Higher polycounts could be achieved at the cost of quality/performace from what I'm reading)
Aprox. 12.9 GFLOPS

Basing this on several sources, should you wish to double-check my maths:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_second#Timeline_of_instructions_per_second
http://www.arm.com/products/processors/classic/arm11/arm11-mpcore.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadway_(microprocessor)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_(graphics_chip)
http://3dbrew.org/wiki/Hardware#GPU
http://kyokojap.myweb.hinet.net/gpu_gflops/
http://dctradio.webcindario.com/gamecube.html
http://www.bsc.es/sites/default/files/public/mare_nostrum/hpcac2012-15_mont_blanc.pdf

You are funny, because you did all that work just to prove my points. Thank you, because i was really bored. It is nice when someone in trying to appear smarter than you does all the work...

Now let's see:

1. 664,64 dmips vs 1676,7 dmips is about half the performance in my book. Well, a little lower, but cpu performance is not that important for a console, case in point: PS4.

2. You forgot that the 3ds has 2 vector co-processors so the cpu gflops are way higher than what you listed... I am too bored to search, but i am sure you will make the effort to add the co-processors gflops to the 3ds cpu total...

3. 6.432 GFLOPS vs 12.9 GFLOPS for the gpu is more than half the gpu performance of the wii. Triangles are about the same, but are not that important, especially on the 3ds where the smaller screen allows for fewer polygons without sacrificing perceived quality.

4. So, what are you trying to prove? That i am absolutely right? Thank you.

5. The 3ds has 128mb ram compared to 88mb for the wii, and 6mb video ram compared to just 3mb vram for the wii...

6. Now that you can see the actual numbers, tell me why a Xenoblade port was absolutely not possible on the original 3ds and needs to be exclusive on the "new 3ds"...

 

[henn64]

u might be retarded

Just comparing visually...
So what if I was curious, I'm not dumb enough to think the 3DS = Wii x9999

1. You can't really compare the two ports, because the 3ds one plays on a lower resolution.

2. The 3ds has about half the cpu and gpu processing power, but more ram and vram*.

3. The 3ds has much faster media access compared to the dvd drive of the Wii.

4. Although the Wii has double the gpu power, it renders on a higher resolution (480p compared to 240p) and it lacks the shader-like features of the PICA200, so they are about even in terms of what they can output. At least on the primary screen. Usually the lower screen is not used for graphically intensive purposes.

5. Xenoblade was perfectly possible on the older hardware, don't let Nintendo's PR fool you. Sure, it would need some changes to better fit the 3ds hardware, but to say that it was in no way possible is a blatant lie. Nintendo 64 vs the DS had similar differences, and they ported Super Mario 64, Diddy kong racing and Ridge Racer 64 just fine... They just want to sell more hardware, especially gateway-free hardware...

*That is why it is absurd to say that Xenoblade needs more ram, especially since the 3ds has cartridges also so it doesn't need to buffer data so heavily...

Nobody said pictures were accurate.

 

[DSoryu]

3DS CPU: 2x ARM11 MPCore @ 268MHz
ARM11MPCore - 530 DMIPS per core (Dual-Core Area Optimized) @ 427MHz, 1.24 DMIPS per cycle per core (530/427)
1.24 * 268 * 2 = 664,64 DMIPS total
Aprox. 0.55 GFLOPS (results based on ARM11 - 0.5 FLOPS @ 482MHz)

3DS GPU: PICA200 @ 268MHz
PICA200 - 15.3 millions of polygons per second, 4.8 GFLOPS @ 200MHz
Adjusted to 3DS clockspeed - 20.502 millions of polygons per second, 6.432 GFLOPS

Wii CPU: Broadway (Modified PPC 750) @ 729MHz
PowerPC 750 - 525 MIPS @ 233MHz, 2.3 DMIPS per cycle per core (525/233)
729 * 2.3 = 1676,7 DMIPS total
2.9 GFLOPS

Wii GPU: Hollywood @ 243MHz
Hollywood - aprox. 9 - 18 millions polygons per second (full quality, not flat-shaded), 11 GFLOPS (based on the Flipper, just running faster. Higher polycounts could be achieved at the cost of quality/performace from what I'm reading)
Aprox. 12.9 GFLOPS

Basing this on several sources, should you wish to double-check my maths:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instructions_per_second#Timeline_of_instructions_per_second
http://www.arm.com/products/processors/classic/arm11/arm11-mpcore.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadway_(microprocessor)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_(graphics_chip)
http://3dbrew.org/wiki/Hardware#GPU
http://kyokojap.myweb.hinet.net/gpu_gflops/
http://dctradio.webcindario.com/gamecube.html
http://www.bsc.es/sites/default/files/public/mare_nostrum/hpcac2012-15_mont_blanc.pdf

Clear example that powerfull hardware and more GHZ =/= Better performane.

Instead: Newer architectures and technollogy = Better Performance.