Gaming Oh, so Nintendo can remotely delete your games!

[RedCoreZero]

If you're too lazy to watch it:


Any awkward skips or silences are due to my redacting of my personal information. I have a feeling this will prevent the internet hate brigade from kicking down my doors.

A little background information:

I share my 3DS with my family. I created a family account because people from my family sometimes buys multiple copies of the same game. I also exchange codes with my friends or we give each other codes we don't want/need for various reasons (for example, some friends don't care about Club Nintendo). In exchange sometimes I buy things from Club Nintendo for my friends and family. I used all of these codes on my Club Nintendo family account.

Recently, I was able to redeem more than one $30 promotion for buying Shin Megami Tensei IV and Fire Emblem. As a result Nintendo remotely deleted the games I bought using that credit. These games included: Mario and Luigi: Dream Team, Zelda 2, Megaman 6, and Ninja Gaiden 1 & 2.

I don't hold any ill will towards Nintendo for this incident. I don't believe I broke the rules, but it is their perogative what to do with their own system architecture. However, some have called me a liar because what I posted so far can easily be "faked." I have no reason to lie about any of this. I uploaded this conversation with Nintendo customer service as further proof that Nintendo CAN, in fact, remotely remove your games at their convenience, regardless of whether you purchased it or not. The worst you can accuse me of is being cheap and cutting costs where I can - and let's be honest, who DOESN'T try to keep costs down when buying games? I did not break any rules, and I did not do anything wrong. I am many things, but a liar isn't one of them.

Again, I hold no ill will towards Nintendo for this. I plan on continuing my patronage towards their systems and games (in fact, I preordered my Pokemon 3DS XL recently, as well as Zelda: Wind Waker HD with Ganondorf figure). However, this does impact my confidence towards Nintendo's digital practices. The knowledge that they can, for any reason, and at any time, delete my games remotely, even when I am not doing anything wrong, sits unwell with me. I originally started buying digital-only because I believed it was best that my money goes directly towards developers/publishers, but now I am finding myself not as confident in that decision any longer.

 

[AngryGeek416]

Interesting...

 

[3bbb7]

does it say anywhere that if you buy multiple copies of each game that you can't redeem multiple codes?

 

[Inuuto]

If Nintendo can remotely delete games, then it should *theoretically* be possible for them to brick a system for using unofficial software. I'm wondering how this is even possible.

 

[Rydian]

If Nintendo can remotely delete games, then it should *theoretically* be possible for them to brick a system for using unofficial software. I'm wondering how this is even possible.

Send an update that won't boot. It's possible on the PS3 and 360 and other shit too.

 

[calmwaters]

Here's an example of why going completely digital is bad. This kind of stuff can happen and probably might, either by accident or on purpose. Did their customer service say that it was some sort of mistake? I'd think that; I know Nintendo's not this mean.

 

[Langin]

If Nintendo can remotely delete games, then it should *theoretically* be possible for them to brick a system for using unofficial software. I'm wondering how this is even possible.

They are legally not allowed to brick you system. Consumers can sue Nintendo for that. But I recall something in their terms that they are allowed to though.(This is why I don't hack my systems any more because of those terms which get more strict every time.)

 

[Dork]

I don't get the big deal here, Xbox Live, PSN, Steam, and any other digital service are all capable of deleting your games at their will.

 

[Vengenceonu]

Digital downloads are considered "Services" unlike physical cartridges which are "Goods". Nintendo can take back services. You dont actually own digital versions.

 

[Saturosias]

They are legally not allowed to brick you system [...] But I recall something in their terms that they are allowed to though.

Regardless of whether or not it's in their Terms & Conditions, they can not purposefully brick your device, period. Sending an update that malfunctions w/ mods present =/= sending a package purely to brick a system.

 

[Foxi4]

They haven't literally deleted the games remotely - they revoked the license for said games as the promotion allowed you to only claim once per account. In effect, the system picked up the games as corrupt content and purged them.

Regardless of what the nice lady was telling you on the phone, Nintendo has no control whatsoever over the system you are holding, merely over the eShop account that's on their server. Revoking the license stored there equals deactivating the game on the system on which it is stored. I'm assuming that she used the word "deleted" to make it understandable to the customer since that's the end effect of such an operation.

Upon connecting to Nintendo Network, license files have been updated, along with the license files for the games in question - the system itself did the rest of the job.

 

[the_randomizer]

And people ask me why I'm against digital downloads on consoles.

 

[RedCoreZero]

If Nintendo can remotely delete games, then it should *theoretically* be possible for them to brick a system for using unofficial software. I'm wondering how this is even possible.

I guess they have background processes checking stuff on Nintendo's service.
Now, obviously if Nintendo can check what you have on the system they can fuck with your system with on a greater level.
They can brick your system; but just like the PS3, you can get sued. If you have an unlicensed app on your home menu say good bye to online services.

 

[Rockhoundhigh]

Well the Fire Emblem/Shin Megami Tensei promotion was a great deal. I guess they just didn't want any one person to have too much of a good thing. Still, I guess it proves that if you abuse their promotions they can invalidate your credit.

 

[Xarsah16]

Nintendo is essentially penalizing the consumer for buying multiple copies of the same game...

genius.

Excellent marketing strategy, Nintendo. You deserve a pat on the back for that one. [/sarcasm]

 

[Foxi4]

I guess they have background processes checking stuff on Nintendo's service.

They indeed do, every contemporary Online system does. There needs to be a framework of license verification in place to prevent abuse and/or piracy. PlayStation Plus Instant Game Collection works in a very similar fashion - the games redeemed have a license with a specified time period of validity, once it becomes invalid, the title will not work anymore until it receives new information from the server, extending this period.

Now, obviously if Nintendo can check what you have on the system they can fuck with your system with on a greater level.

They can't do that, actually. All they do know is what content is linked to the eShop and nothing beyond that - cartridge-based content has embedded licenses.

They can brick your system;

No, they can't and you were explicitly told so.

but just like the PS3, you can get sued.

Sued for what? If you leak corporate secrets or spread pirated copies you can, but not because you sneezed. There has to be a good legal reason for a lawsuit to take place.

If you have an unlicensed app on your home menu say good bye to online services.

An unlicensed application on the home menu will be automatically deleted as soon as you log on, yes.

Nintendo is essentially penalizing the consumer for buying multiple copies of the same game...

genius.

Excellent marketing strategy, Nintendo. You deserve a pat on the back for that one. [/sarcasm]

Not "buying multiple copies" - using a free, promotional voucher multiple times on the same account which is against the rules of the promotion itself.

 

[ShadowSoldier]

"Recently, I was able to redeem more than one $30 promotion for buying Shin Megami Tensei IV and Fire Emblem."

How? Doesn't it work only one per console? :/

 

[Xarsah16]

Not "buying multiple copies" - using a free, promotional voucher multiple times on the same account which is against the rules of the promotion itself.

I thought I heard what the woman said right - promotion aside. what I got out of it was having multiple copies of the same game on the account is a no-no/grey area which she seemed to be dancing around, and not giving a real answer.

 

[Foxi4]

"Recently, I was able to redeem more than one $30 promotion for buying Shin Megami Tensei IV and Fire Emblem."

How? Doesn't it work only one per console? :/

It works per Club Nintendo account as far as I know, not per console, which is why he was penalized for redeeming it more than once.

I thought I heard what the woman said right - promotion aside. what I got out of it was having multiple copies of the same game on the account is a no-no/grey area which she seemed to be dancing around, and not giving a real answer.

Once he asked if he should make separate accounts for every system or not "so that this situation does not occur again", she clearly stated "either way is fine" - he was penalized because he broke the rules of the promotion, but I'll give it a re-hear just to make sure.

 

[Rydian]

Digital downloads are considered "Services" unlike physical cartridges which are "Goods". Nintendo can take back services. You dont actually own digital versions.

The download of the game is the service, but the game itself is a good. As Foxi said, it was just the license removal since it was an error on Nintendo's part that it went through twice.