SquareEnix: Why Final Fantasy Needs a Reboot!

Issac

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I know many disagree with me, but I think FFVIII and FFV are brilliant, and those are my favorites.
The job system in V, customising your character with two handed melee monk skills and white magic and stuff :) It was just fun!

And the love, the story, characters and stuff in VIII :3
 
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xist

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and the battle system was one of the best systems in the entire series. I love the fact how you can plan the battle so far ahead, as well as being able to win any battle easily just through having intimate knowledge of the game mechanics.

The thing is that XII does this in spades. Based on battle systems alone, X is worst of the PS2 games....not as fluid as X-2 (which refined X's system) and whilst some argue that you don't feel involved in XII, it was a new system that totally broke away from everything before. The fact that it works so well is a testament to it's ingenuity.
 

Hells Malice

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People didnt like XIII because it was too hard for them and the story was too complex for their minds.
Thats the conclusion i've come to after analyzing gbatemp.

That's kinda like the argument 12 year olds use when people insult CoD, saying that people just suck so they hate it.
Good logic IMO. I mean...until your brain develops.
 

Black-Ice

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That's kinda like the argument 12 year olds use when people insult CoD, saying that people just suck so they hate it.
Good logic IMO. I mean...until your brain develops.
My brain is well developed.
Thats why I can understand what happens in XIII unlike 70% of people on this site.
 
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There's no reason to argue which Final Fantasy sucked and which didn't, it's mostly based on a personal opinion. Personally, I prefered Final Fantasy IX and X over 7, this doesn't make 7 suck, because it's known to be one of the best Final Fantasy's.
 
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The thing is that XII does this in spades. Based on battle systems alone, X is worst of the PS2 games....not as fluid as X-2 (which refined X's system) and whilst some argue that you don't feel involved in XII, it was a new system that totally broke away from everything before. The fact that it works so well is a testament to it's ingenuity.

See it all really depends on what you're looking for. I love the amount of strategy you were able to put into FFX's system, but you just can't do that with real-time battle systems. Some people prefer the quick "think on the spot" action, but I don't because I don't believe it gives you a real opportunity to think of innovative strategies. Your strategies have to be far more simplistic when you're talking about real-time battles, whereas with conditional turned-based systems, your strategies can be far more dynamic, and you can actually see in advanced how your strategy is going to perform. You can wait there and think for ages, looking for that one out you have for your terrible predicament.

Surprisingly enough, it's also great fun when you have friends around you, and you're all discussing what move should be taken next. I remember all of the great fun we had when trying to beat Sinspawn Gui and Yunalesca. I remember when my friend first showed me FFX, and while I knew absolutely nothing about RPGs, my turn-by-turn advice helped him beat Yunalesca after losing to her so many times. Really fun times.
 

Black-Ice

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Actually it's known to be one of the best and most popular.
I believe I just said that 'best' is a parameter scaled by opinion only.
I never disagreed with what you said, i merely want to correct your terminology.
For me, the 'best' are Crisis Core, the whole IV series and XIII
 

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Aren't Hiroshi Minagawa and Hiroyuki Itou still with the company?

I'm having a hard time believing you've played too many of these games.

I don't think Hiroshi worked on any final fantasy games before FF12 but still if you have a majority of staff that left the company, the company is not the same, even if one is left.
 

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My brain is well developed.
Thats why I can understand what happens in XIII unlike 70% of people on this site.

There is a rather large gulf between understanding a story and having it told well. Others have taken the subpar characters and I want to pull it up on being told badly- "behind the curtain/boss to end all bosses" "twists" aside most of the other games at least had a nominal direction a few hours in where XIII really did not have a lot going for it here and what it did have would have to have been teased out by the player. I am all for having a world/narrative built across a large chunk of a game but I can never hold FF XIII as a shining example of the method and given there were other games released around the same time that pulled it off.......
 
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There was nothing wrong with VIII, X and XII. Some people hate it, and some people like it.

I suggest moving this thread to general gaming.

Making a comment you know will be inflammatory without any reasoning is verging on just being trolling.

Meh, FFVII is just plain overrated and is surrounded in nostalgia in my opinion. I'm NOT saying it's a bad game, just that it doesn't deserve the hype it gets. Also, most of the new FF's don't deserve the hate they get either.
 

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Guys, you will never get a real Final Fantasy game under the final fantasy brand anymore, everyone that worked on those good old games left the company and joined either Monolith Software (makers of Xenoblade) or Mistwalker that made The Last Story, <- this here is pretty much final fantasy it has the same name, just using different words.

Which proves my point in a thread I made a while back, that Hironobu Sakaguchi was the reason Final Fantasy games were amazing. Lost Odyssey is a masterpiece.

Also, FFX was the last good Final Fantasy game, stands as one of my favorites, behind VIII and VII. X-2 and beyond are just pure shit.
 

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The issue is not Final Fantasy needing a reboot, is Final Fantasy needs to stop being rebooted every time and just get back to it's classic style.
We need Hironobu Sakaguchi back (Lost Odyssey was the real FF XIII) and possibly Nobuo Uematsu for the music!
 

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Final Fantasy is definitely stale. Hitting a few points I spotted reading through the thread first:

- VIII is a good game. The combat system was designed in such a way that you could play the game just about any way you wanted to, modifying the challenge to however you saw fit. The first play through, you're unlikely to see this, barely beating the final boss by the skin of your teeth, at least if you're anything like me. Subsequent plays will result in really seeing the game for what it is though. It can be very time consuming depending on how you play, but hell, any good RPG should take up a solid amount of time. Plus, that story. Definitely one of the best stories in an FF game. Makes you want to keep playing.

- VII really isn't that great of a game. The story isn't fantastic, and the characters aren't all that loveable. It's certainly tainted by nostalgia, making an okay experience seem like the best ever. VII to FF isn't like OoT to Zelda. It hasn't aged well, and remaking it would simply reveal how dated much of it is.

- Following the VII train, Crisis Core was an abysmal game. The story was garbage, and the battling was ridiculously generic. Progression was slow, and the game was lacking. It was good when it was new, before the PSP actually had some half decent games. Crisis Core has aged terribly the past few years though, showing just how clunky and crappy it is. While I'm on this topic, Dirge of Cerberus also wasn't good. In fact, it was easily the worst of the VII milking train. Advent Children was pretty cool for what it was, at least.

- XII was too experimental. It tried to change too much too quickly, and the story and character development, the staples of a good RPG, suffered because of it. That's inexcusable. The augment system was also kind of crappy. The license system was okay, an interesting attempt to reinvent the generic class system, but I'm doubting too many people actually strayed from the armor and weapon types that characters initially started with. I mean, they pretty much set you up with a decent balance of characters for any situation. Changing it up was practically discouraged. The world was honestly a bit too big at times as well. It was simply a rather tedious experience with the chance to be brilliant with some refining later on. So instead they made FF XIII. Brilliant move, SE!

- XIII, well, we all know why it isn't very good. If it wasn't an FF game, after initial reviews, most gamers wouldn't have touched it. With that in mind, I'll leave it with this: Black-Ice, if the story telling was good, that "70%" of people on this site would understand it fine. Clearly, there's a problem with the story telling if people are beating the game without a proper understanding of events. When it comes to a problem, majority always rules.

- Yes, IX concluded kind of badly, but all in all, it was a fun game to play through, and it was better than VII in terms of story, yet better than VIII in terms of general battle mechanics. It was kind of the balance of the PS1 games. Not absolutely brilliant, but not bad either. Simply worth having in your collection.

Having played nearly ever Final Fantasy game to some degree, I can say without a doubt that VI and the entries previous to it were the most consistently well done. Most had a problem or two here or there, but for the most part, you could enjoy playing through all of them. I mean, I've beaten IV to death, and V and VI have had their respective playthroughs. I've never actually beaten I, II, and III though. I and II, I simply don't have the patience for anymore (I have a hard time getting into games these days), and III I got to the end of but even I thought the game was too tedious to grind myself to a point where I could actually challenge the final boss with a reasonable chance of victory.

I've never played X or X-2. No opinion there.

Essentially though, from VII and beyond, you can easily find at least one flaw that would be game breaking to a large number of people in every entry. The formula broke in the transition to 3D and attempts to rework it has left it in a continually worse condition. As pretty much everybody that apparently made FF palatable no longer even works on the games, the odds of FF coming back in anyway that resembles the great games of old that made us love the series are slim at best. SE has turned into a company that doesn't innovate, but rather milks existing series for all they can possibly give. It's a shame, as Square truly was a great at one time. That merger was the worst idea they ever had, regardless of the reasons.

FF doesn't need to reinvent itself to survive. It has a terminal illness, and nothing will bring it back. It's just about getting as much out of it as possible before it finally dies.
 

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I only really started on the Final Fantasy series when 7 came out on the PSX many years ago. I absolutely loved it from start to finish.

I like others couldnt get in to 8 and I think i only got a part ways through 9 before I chucked the towel in. I dont think that 8 or 9 were probably any worse than 7, its just that the novelty had kind of wore off. 7 was new, everything was new. The first game to tell a proper story with video cut scenes and an amazing soundtrack. 8 and 9 were just the same really. Probably just as good, but it had been "done before"

Through the PS2 era I again tried to play FF10 and FF12 and only got a few hours in to each one and just shelved them.

I know im in the minority here but I then gave FF13 a go and I couldnt put that down from start to finish. And to this day it remains one of only a handful of games Ive played and finished twice (once on PS3 and once on 360) and its probably my favourite alongside FF7.

Ive just got FF13-2 on the cheap and will get down to that shortly.

Final Fantasy games will always be made and will always split the audience. The only danger i see is that they will stop being released anywhere outside of Japan because it just doesnt sell very well anywhere else in the world, which is a massive shame. The gaming world these days is happy to just play year on year rehashed COD, FIFA etc and its killing off gaming for me
 

xist

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Which proves my point in a thread I made a while back, that Hironobu Sakaguchi was the reason Final Fantasy games were amazing. Lost Odyssey is a masterpiece.

Also, FFX was the last good Final Fantasy game, stands as one of my favorites, behind VIII and VII. X-2 and beyond are just pure shit.

And another opinion that is probably amongst the minority. In my opinion nothing in this post is right....X was a response to pressure to make something epic for the new platform, X-2 was a refinement of the gameplay and XII was a refreshing attempt at something different. And prevailing opinion doesn't seem to make Lost Odyssey a masterpiece (i've not played it) but it seems odd that a review makes the statement - "If you're too attached to the sorts of innovation introduced by the likes of Final Fantasy XII, there's a chance that it's just too old-fashioned for your cutting-edge tastes." Why is it that RPG's are the one genre where people get upset when things are changed in an attempt to improve the genre?


- VII really isn't that great of a game. The story isn't fantastic, and the characters aren't all that loveable. It's certainly tainted by nostalgia, making an okay experience seem like the best ever. VII to FF isn't like OoT to Zelda. It hasn't aged well, and remaking it would simply reveal how dated much of it is.

The thing that was clever about VII was the levels of story....peeling away layers like an onion. On first play you're chasing Sephiroth around the world, but later you realise that it's not Sephiroth at all....he's been in the Northern Cave the entire time, locked away from the world and is bringing the Jenova cells (and Cloud) to him for a reunion. The "Sephiroth" who's foiled you is in fact a cluster of mimetic cells. I think it's a nice story telling trick where you may never even think about the switch in villain even during play, but it's done subtly enough to imply a greater threat.


- XII was too experimental. It tried to change too much too quickly, and the story and character development, the staples of a good RPG, suffered because of it. That's inexcusable. The augment system was also kind of crappy. The license system was okay, an interesting attempt to reinvent the generic class system, but I'm doubting too many people actually strayed from the armor and weapon types that characters initially started with. I mean, they pretty much set you up with a decent balance of characters for any situation. Changing it up was practically discouraged. The world was honestly a bit too big at times as well. It was simply a rather tedious experience with the chance to be brilliant with some refining later on. So instead they made FF XIII. Brilliant move, SE!

I think that this is a divisive title for many of the reasons you mention, but remove the FF tag and it'd have been received much better. It's sad that FFXII really indicates that the fans of the series don't actually want genre pushing development but a return to old mechanics...and i'd bet that if things did go back people would still be unhappy. Also do try the Zodiac Jobs version....i think that will at least fix some of your issues, as it polishes off some rough edges.


- Yes, IX concluded kind of badly, but all in all, it was a fun game to play through, and it was better than VII in terms of story, yet better than VIII in terms of general battle mechanics. It was kind of the balance of the PS1 games. Not absolutely brilliant, but not bad either. Simply worth having in your collection.

I honestly felt the stories and characters in IX just weren't very interesting. They tried to go back to the fantasy setting after the futuristic foray in VII and VIII and ended up creating a shallow trek around the world with mainly forgettable characters and enemies. Aspects of the plot were good (Vivi's desire to determine what it is to be human for instance) but on the whole it was just a bit unadventurous. Also Chocobo Hot and Cold was awful.


Essentially though, from VII and beyond, you can easily find at least one flaw that would be game breaking to a large number of people in every entry.
FF doesn't need to reinvent itself to survive. It has a terminal illness, and nothing will bring it back. It's just about getting as much out of it as possible before it finally dies.

I think your first point is the real problem - Vociferous fans and Square-Enix chasing both fan fervour and their own ideas. This whole multi entry farce regarding XIII is a case in point of a messup...are new ideas really that hard to come by. The company isn't beyond saving, and there's plenty of new talent that might be waiting to be given a shot, but what needs to be done is totally ignoring fan pressure and going for a truly fantastic story and set of characters combined with an interesting game mechanic. Also, how about they use the P3 encounter system....
 

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