Hacking Hacking: What qualifies as illegal?

[tdub154420]

Yep. I'm gonna be this guy. My last discussion on .wad's got closed due to forum rules on piracy, so I'm opening another thread. Just to be clear, I am NOT using this discussion to seek wad's. Nope, that was last thread. Now I'm going to start a debate cause the closing of my first, and maybe second to last thread on this website has got me wondering.

When hacking a Wii, what qualifies as illegal?

WADs are f'ing immoral as hell to Wii hackers because they're illegal, but roms, isos, and wbfs' are basically morally accepted.

"Oh this is the USB loader, you can use it to play 'back ups' of wii games" Who are we fooling here? Lets say you do use the USB loader to play back ups of your Wii games cause you graduated with honors from your boyscout troop, lets say you do that, but realize that it can be used and is used for massive amounts of pirating. Isn't it slightly wrong to perpetuate the existence of this app when its popularly used to play pirated games?

Furthermore lets go into hacking your Wii. What's the legal purpose of hacking your Wii other than to
1. Change the color of your Wii's background (Wohoo?) or
2. To eliminate the need for you to ever use your disc loader again.

Well as exciting as both those things sound, many many users hack the Wii with the intention of playing pirated games. It's like buying a bong. Those who buy a bong but don't smoke out of it may be legitimately using it as a centerpiece on their coffee table, much like those who hack their Wii and only play legitimate back ups, but most people buy a bong to illegally smoke out of it. Which is why the law considers even owning the tool in which to do this illegal activity, the bong, as ILLEGAL. It's called paraphernalia, much like how a hacked wii is paraphernalia for playing pirated games.

Now I know, it all can be legally justified. But why? When we KNOW it's a very popular tool for piracy, when we know its only legal use is for customization and minor convenience, why do we stand by and not blow the whistle on hacking wiis?

 

[Black-Ice]

If you are worried about legality
Dont hack. You'll only hurt your morales.

 

[C-Kronos]

Yep. I'm gonna be this guy. My last discussion on .wad's got closed due to forum rules on piracy, so I'm opening another thread. Just to be clear, I am NOT using this discussion to seek wad's. Nope, that was last thread. Now I'm going to start a debate cause the closing of my first, and maybe second to last thread on this website has got me wondering.

When hacking a Wii, what qualifies as illegal?

WADs are f'ing immoral as hell to Wii hackers because they're illegal, but roms, isos, and wbfs' are basically morally accepted.

"Oh this is the USB loader, you can use it to play 'back ups' of wii games" Who are we fooling here? Lets say you do use the USB loader to play back ups of your Wii games cause you graduated with honors from your boyscout troop, lets say you do that, but realize that it can be used and is used for massive amounts of pirating. Isn't it slightly wrong to perpetuate the existence of this app when its popularly used to play pirated games?

Furthermore lets go into hacking your Wii. What's the legal purpose of hacking your Wii other than to
1. Change the color of your Wii's background (Wohoo?) or
2. To eliminate the need for you to ever use your disc loader again.

Well as exciting as both those things sound, many many users hack the Wii with the intention of playing pirated games. It's like buying a bong. Those who buy a bong but don't smoke out of it may be legitimately using it as a centerpiece on their coffee table, much like those who hack their Wii and only play legitimate back ups, but most people buy a bong to illegally smoke out of it. Which is why the law considers even owning the tool in which to do this illegal activity, the bong, as ILLEGAL. It's called paraphernalia, much like how a hacked wii is paraphernalia for playing pirated games.

Now I know, it all can be legally justified. But why? When we KNOW it's a very popular tool for piracy, when we know its only legal use is for customization and minor convenience, why do we stand by and not blow the whistle on hacking wiis?

Honestly, I'd wager that most people on this site that has a hacked Wii does a lot of what you've listed above, but there's a reason you shouldn't discuss piracy on forums. The reason being, it could land the site in hot water, and potentially the staff and various members. Being immature about this fact, and not realizing the potential dangers of talking about piracy on a forum as popular as this will probably just end up with you getting the boot.

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

Prove to me everyone who hacks their Wii does it for piracy. Oh? You can't? Sad. I hacked my Wii because my DVD drive was getting loud and was dying.

Once a person buys...anything really, it's theirs to do with as they please. They can hack it, fuck it, break it, or resell it again and not a damn thing is illegal about it. The illegal part everyone talks about is downloading content that does not belong to you.

One of the main reasons people seem to hack their consoles is to play and use homebrew applications that expands the usability of the Wii.

You can bitch and whine all you want but no one gives a shit anyways.

 

[C-Kronos]

Prove to me everyone who hacks their Wii does it for piracy. Oh? You can't? Sad. I hacked my Wii because my DVD drive was getting loud and was dying.

Once a person buys...anything really, it's theirs to do with as they please. They can hack it, fuck it, break it, or resell it again and not a damn thing is illegal about it. The illegal part everyone talks about is downloading content that does not belong to you.

One of the main reasons people seem to hack their consoles is to play and use homebrew applications that expands the usability of the Wii.

You can bitch and whine all you want but no one gives a shit anyways.

I modified my Wii for the use of homebrew, and USB loading for backups of games that I own. Not to mention, the ocarina cheat function in most USB loaders is pretty damn nice if you're just wanting to mess around in a game and have some mindless fun. Heck, I bought Skyward Sword, and the first thing I did was copy it to my USB drive so I wouldn't be hassled of having to swap out discs if I want to play another game of mine. Emulating consoles such as the NES and SNES is also nice on the Wii when you're using the classic controller, because it makes it feel like you're actually playing on the real console in my opinion.

 

[tdub154420]

Yep. I'm gonna be this guy. My last discussion on .wad's got closed due to forum rules on piracy, so I'm opening another thread. Just to be clear, I am NOT using this discussion to seek wad's. Nope, that was last thread. Now I'm going to start a debate cause the closing of my first, and maybe second to last thread on this website has got me wondering.

When hacking a Wii, what qualifies as illegal?

WADs are f'ing immoral as hell to Wii hackers because they're illegal, but roms, isos, and wbfs' are basically morally accepted.

"Oh this is the USB loader, you can use it to play 'back ups' of wii games" Who are we fooling here? Lets say you do use the USB loader to play back ups of your Wii games cause you graduated with honors from your boyscout troop, lets say you do that, but realize that it can be used and is used for massive amounts of pirating. Isn't it slightly wrong to perpetuate the existence of this app when its popularly used to play pirated games?

Furthermore lets go into hacking your Wii. What's the legal purpose of hacking your Wii other than to
1. Change the color of your Wii's background (Wohoo?) or
2. To eliminate the need for you to ever use your disc loader again.

Well as exciting as both those things sound, many many users hack the Wii with the intention of playing pirated games. It's like buying a bong. Those who buy a bong but don't smoke out of it may be legitimately using it as a centerpiece on their coffee table, much like those who hack their Wii and only play legitimate back ups, but most people buy a bong to illegally smoke out of it. Which is why the law considers even owning the tool in which to do this illegal activity, the bong, as ILLEGAL. It's called paraphernalia, much like how a hacked wii is paraphernalia for playing pirated games.

Now I know, it all can be legally justified. But why? When we KNOW it's a very popular tool for piracy, when we know its only legal use is for customization and minor convenience, why do we stand by and not blow the whistle on hacking wiis?

Honestly, I'd wager that most people on this site that has a hacked Wii does a lot of what you've listed above, but there's a reason you shouldn't discuss piracy on forums. The reason being, it could land the site in hot water, and potentially the staff and various members. Being immature about this fact, and not realizing the potential dangers of talking about piracy on a forum as popular as this will probably just end up with you getting the boot.

That's definitely legitimate, and I may get the boot for this reason, but I think for the same reason hacking a Wii should be just as taboo as piracy for staff members and moderators since it's a gateway to piracy. And maybe homebrew should be under fire and not the hacking of a Wii, homebrew supports 80% legitimate apps, its just those emulators and USB loaders.

 

[tueidj]

Furthermore lets go into hacking your Wii. What's the legal purpose of hacking your Wii other than to
1. Change the color of your Wii's background (Wohoo?) or
2. To eliminate the need for you to ever use your disc loader again.

3. To develop and/or run software developed by yourself or others on a piece of hardware that belongs to you.
Does it really seem odd that someone might think "Hmmm, I paid $400 for this console, I wish I could use it to play some games I made myself (or made by others) instead of paying more money for the privilege."

Some examples:
Descent
Corsix-TH
Eduke32
Quake
Smashing!

 

[DeadlyFoez]

Anything that gets you any copyrighted content other than by the source is illegal. ModMii at least gets around this (arguably) by downloading all the IOS's from Nintendos servers. But if you are downloading games and WAD files, then you are in fact in the illegal territory.

Now, about the argument of "If you own a device, you can do whatever you want with it", is also an arguable statement because most companies, like Sony, are not selling you the console, but instead licencing you to be able to use it (which I think is utter fucking bullshit that they try to call it that). But no matter what you or I think, there is the law of our countries that can uphold that "license" if any company really wants to act like a fucking jerkhole.

In the end, I have learned a lot from being a member here. I used to be a filthy pirate back in my days, but I changed my ways because there was no real fun in owning shitloads of games that I really don't give a damn about anyways. I now literally own about 15 games currently, and they all get used regularly. All the games that I have on my HDD are games that I have backed up myself. If I ever see anyone talk about downloading a game I will call them out and let them know that this community will not/should not help them.

I know that a great portion of the members here are most likely pirating, but as long as they don't openly tell me that they are then I can assume that they are using a legal backup dump.

 

[tdub154420]

Prove to me everyone who hacks their Wii does it for piracy. Oh? You can't? Sad. I hacked my Wii because my DVD drive was getting loud and was dying.

Once a person buys...anything really, it's theirs to do with as they please. They can hack it, fuck it, break it, or resell it again and not a damn thing is illegal about it. The illegal part everyone talks about is downloading content that does not belong to you.

One of the main reasons people seem to hack their consoles is to play and use homebrew applications that expands the usability of the Wii.

You can bitch and whine all you want but no one gives a shit anyways.

Not everybody hacks their wii for piracy, but I can certainly prove its popular. Just craigslist the word "Wii" and you will get a list of ads claiming that someone can hack your wii and give you 100's of games for free. These ads are of course illegitimate but its this illegitimacy that has found its way into popular use of hacking, at least in its solicitation.

And yes you can do anything to whatever you buy once it is in your possession, but that becomes a problem once it becomes a tool for illegal activity. It's just the difference between consuming and obtaining.

 

[tueidj]

And yes you can do anything to whatever you buy once it is in your possession, but that becomes a problem once it becomes a tool for illegal activity. It's just the difference between consuming and obtaining.

Well shit, guns can kill people. Let's ban hunting and disarm our police forces before all hell breaks loose, because apparently people can't be expected to control themselves.

 

[MelodieOctavia]

Yep. I'm gonna be this guy. My last discussion on .wad's got closed due to forum rules on piracy, so I'm opening another thread. Just to be clear, I am NOT using this discussion to seek wad's. Nope, that was last thread. Now I'm going to start a debate cause the closing of my first, and maybe second to last thread on this website has got me wondering.

When hacking a Wii, what qualifies as illegal?

WADs are f'ing immoral as hell to Wii hackers because they're illegal, but roms, isos, and wbfs' are basically morally accepted.

"Oh this is the USB loader, you can use it to play 'back ups' of wii games" Who are we fooling here? Lets say you do use the USB loader to play back ups of your Wii games cause you graduated with honors from your boyscout troop, lets say you do that, but realize that it can be used and is used for massive amounts of pirating. Isn't it slightly wrong to perpetuate the existence of this app when its popularly used to play pirated games?

Furthermore lets go into hacking your Wii. What's the legal purpose of hacking your Wii other than to
1. Change the color of your Wii's background (Wohoo?) or
2. To eliminate the need for you to ever use your disc loader again.

Well as exciting as both those things sound, many many users hack the Wii with the intention of playing pirated games. It's like buying a bong. Those who buy a bong but don't smoke out of it may be legitimately using it as a centerpiece on their coffee table, much like those who hack their Wii and only play legitimate back ups, but most people buy a bong to illegally smoke out of it. Which is why the law considers even owning the tool in which to do this illegal activity, the bong, as ILLEGAL. It's called paraphernalia, much like how a hacked wii is paraphernalia for playing pirated games.

Now I know, it all can be legally justified. But why? When we KNOW it's a very popular tool for piracy, when we know its only legal use is for customization and minor convenience, why do we stand by and not blow the whistle on hacking wiis?

Honestly, I'd wager that most people on this site that has a hacked Wii does a lot of what you've listed above, but there's a reason you shouldn't discuss piracy on forums. The reason being, it could land the site in hot water, and potentially the staff and various members. Being immature about this fact, and not realizing the potential dangers of talking about piracy on a forum as popular as this will probably just end up with you getting the boot.

That's definitely legitimate, and I may get the boot for this reason, but I think for the same reason hacking a Wii should be just as taboo as piracy for staff members and moderators since it's a gateway to piracy. And maybe homebrew should be under fire and not the hacking of a Wii, homebrew supports 80% legitimate apps, its just those emulators and USB loaders.

How far are you willing to stretch that logic? Hacking a Wii is a gateway for piracy? So is buying one.

If I have a knife, and I modify it (sharpening), does that mean it should be illegal for me to have, because it could be used for illegal activity?(assault and homicide) No, because I have a legitimate use for it. Cutting and filleting meat and vegetables.

Well, then by that same vein, it's not illegal to hack a Wii, or own a previously hacked Wii. Even though it is used a lot for piracy, It also has legitimate uses such as media streaming, and developing, testing and playing homebrew programs and games.

However, Discussing where and how to get ROMs, WADs and ISOs is in no way legal no matter how you shake it, cut it or flip it.

Understand the difference?

 

[Tom Bombadildo]

And yes you can do anything to whatever you buy once it is in your possession, but that becomes a problem once it becomes a tool for illegal activity. It's just the difference between consuming and obtaining.

The internet is a tool for piracy, better ban that.

Oh and PCs are tools, too, better ban those.

Oh and most forms of digital media are tools as well. Might as well get rid of all modern technology.

 

[triassic911]

It is not illegal to hack your Wii, but it is illegal to download games you do not own.

Most people hack their Wii to play downloaded games they do not own.

 

[DeadlyFoez]

Well, since most humans will decide to get things for free by means of piracy, maybe we should ban humans from living. Sure, I will kill everyone to make sure this planet does everything legally. :evilgrin:

 

[JoostinOnline]

I hate people who say that the only reason to hack a Wii is for piracy. There are lots of benefits besides the ones you mentioned:

1. Using System Menu hacks to disable that horrible dinging sound that could drive a man insane (seriously, that is one of my favorite benefits).
2. Playing movies and music from your Wii, whether from DVD, USB, SD, or SMB.
3. Being able to import games and play them on your Wii. This is especially useful for people in the Americas, because NoA seems to hate us.
4. Brick protection/recovery. It's true that most any (software related) brick is likely a result of messing up while hacking, but some aren't. If you warranty has expired, it's good to have a free alternative.
5. Homebrew games. Some of the games are actually quite fun.
6. Emulators. This is somewhat of a gray area in terms of legality, but my NES is broken and I like to play my old games without having to repurchase them from the Shop Channel.

And those are just a few off the top of my head.

 

[DeadlyFoez]

I hate people who say that the only reason to hack a Wii is for piracy. There are lots of benefits besides the ones you mentioned:

1. Using System Menu hacks to disable that horrible dinging sound that could drive a man insane (seriously, that is one of my favorite benefits).
2. Playing movies and music from your Wii, whether from DVD, USB, SD, or SMB.
3. Being able to import games and play them on your Wii. This is especially useful for people in the Americas, because NoA seems to hate us.
4. Brick protection/recovery. It's true that most any (software related) brick is likely a result of messing up while hacking, but some aren't. If you warranty has expired, it's good to have a free alternative.
5. Homebrew games. Some of the games are actually quite fun.
6. Emulators. This is somewhat of a gray area in terms of legality, but my NES is broken and I like to play my old games without having to repurchase them from the Shop Channel.

And those are just a few off the top of my head.

Here are my arguments.
4; There is no reason to need brick protection if someone doesn't hack their wii. Yes, there have been a few (very rare) bricks that have been caused while using the authorized software, but in that case Nintendo will still fix it for free even if it is out of warranty.
5; Please show me a homebrew game worth playing besides wiibrator. I ask this only because I have not yet found one worth playing, but I also have not tried everything or looked very hard. So I'd like to see some examples because I may enjoy those games.
6; Legally, the only way someone can play a rom is if they dump the game themselves. Even if you own the game, you can not go and download the game and think that it is legal. When it comes down to facing a court (which never happens), even though it is still a grey area, the court will dismiss any litigation if you can prove that you legally dumped/backed up the game yourself. But thinking that you own the NES cartridge of Zelda does not make it alright to download a ROM of the Zelda game.

 

[JoostinOnline]

Here are my arguments.
4; There is no reason to need brick protection if someone doesn't hack their wii. Yes, there have been a few (very rare) bricks that have been caused while using the authorized software, but in that case Nintendo will still fix it for free even if it is out of warranty.

I was unaware of that. Scratch that one off the list.

5; Please show me a homebrew game worth playing besides wiibrator. I ask this only because I have not yet found one worth playing, but I also have not tried everything or looked very hard. So I'd like to see some examples because I may enjoy those games.

These aren't amazing games, but I enjoy them when I want to pass the time, like most games you would download on your phone:
http://wiibrew.org/wiki/TowerDefense
http://wiibrew.org/wiki/Quake_Wii

 

[DeadlyFoez]

I will check those out. Thanks man.

And thank you for providing the links.

EDIT: Ehh, after watching the videos for all of them. I'd almost rather play Commander Keen or Hugo's House of Horrors in DOSBox. Or even the kings quest or space quest series. Those homebrew games are cool, but I got fulfillment from watching the videos. I don't need to bother playing those games at this point.

Super Metroid Redesign on my Android phone, here I come.... again.

 

[JoostinOnline]

I will check those out. Thanks man.

And thank you for providing the links.

EDIT: Ehh, after watching the videos for all of them. I'd almost rather play Commander Keen or Hugo's House of Horrors in DOSBox. Or even the kings quest or space quest series. Those homebrew games are cool, but I got fulfillment from watching the videos. I don't need to bother playing those games at this point.

Super Metroid Redesign on my Android phone, here I come.... again.

Lol, they are more fun than they look, so I suggest you try them out next time you have nothing to do. I find TowerDefense to be especially fun, although its network code is a bit unstable.

 

[Cyan]

It is not illegal to hack your Wii, but it is illegal to download games you do not own.

It is illegal to download a game you already own too.
The only legal way to possess a backup is to make the backup yourself from your own original copy.