iPad 3 event - March 7 2012

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@Foxi4 Apple actually has it good releasing a new tablet/phone every year. With Android once you buy that new phone that just came out, a better one will come out in 2 weeks. Same goes for Android tablets.
With an Android phone nothing forces you to upgrade - you are sure that whatever comes out on the market will be compatible with your model for at least 2-3 years. Go on, prove me wrong.

I'll go one step further - my uber-old Windows Mobile device which had stock Windows Mobile 5 has gone through all the updates of 5, the update into 6, all updates through 6, all updates of 6,5 and finally I was unable to update, but only because the CE core has been deprecated. That's basically 8 years worth of support for a 512Mhz phone.
You aren't making any sense at all. My phone which came out like 6 months ago still doesn't have an ICS update. Apple is still updating the iPhone 3GS which is a 3 year old phone. And what do you mean nothing forces you to upgrade? How does one force someone to upgrade there iPhone 4 to the iPhone 4S? You can still run the iPhone 4 and it will be fine, no one is forcing you to update.
 
It's unacceptable to sentence users to "obseleteness" within a year.
Sent from my obsolete Android 2.3 device
 
Not only that but, just look at Android manifactures. My phone is running Android 2.3.4 with Sense 2.1, and now the newer HTC phones have Beats Audio and so many more new features which I just can't get. The new HTC One V is getting Android 4.0, with Sense 4.0 and has the SAME hardware my phone has yet my phone won't be getting the update. Apple iPhone is my next phone.
 
You aren't making any sense at all. My phone which came out like 6 months ago still doesn't have an ICS update. Apple is still updating the iPhone 3GS which is a 3 year old phone. And what do you mean nothing forces you to upgrade? How does one force someone to upgrade there iPhone 4 to the iPhone 4S? You can still run the iPhone 4 and it will be fine, no one is forcing you to update.
Android is a Linux-based system - all you need to update is the drivers for your particular hardware, a system image and you can cook a ROM for your device. I can bet that there are ROM's for your device that have this update, you just didn't bother to look. Android is quite organic and most good ROM's are actually cooked by the community.
 
You aren't making any sense at all. My phone which came out like 6 months ago still doesn't have an ICS update. Apple is still updating the iPhone 3GS which is a 3 year old phone. And what do you mean nothing forces you to upgrade? How does one force someone to upgrade there iPhone 4 to the iPhone 4S? You can still run the iPhone 4 and it will be fine, no one is forcing you to update.
Android is a Linux-based system - all you need to update is the drivers for your particular hardware, a system image and you can cook a ROM for your device. I can bet that there are ROM's for your device that have this update, you just didn't bother to look. Android is quite organic and most good ROM's are actually cooked by the community.

Yes but what about the average person who knows nothing about that kind of thing?
 
You aren't making any sense at all. My phone which came out like 6 months ago still doesn't have an ICS update. Apple is still updating the iPhone 3GS which is a 3 year old phone. And what do you mean nothing forces you to upgrade? How does one force someone to upgrade there iPhone 4 to the iPhone 4S? You can still run the iPhone 4 and it will be fine, no one is forcing you to update.
Android is a Linux-based system - all you need to update is the drivers for your particular hardware, a system image and you can cook a ROM for your device. I can bet that there are ROM's for your device that have this update, you just didn't bother to look. Android is quite organic and most good ROM's are actually cooked by the community.
I think I would be aware of that, but the ROMs that developers make just aren't as good as real official ones. They are slow, unstable, and very buggy. I would rather use something reliable.
 
You aren't making any sense at all. My phone which came out like 6 months ago still doesn't have an ICS update. Apple is still updating the iPhone 3GS which is a 3 year old phone. And what do you mean nothing forces you to upgrade? How does one force someone to upgrade there iPhone 4 to the iPhone 4S? You can still run the iPhone 4 and it will be fine, no one is forcing you to update.
Android is a Linux-based system - all you need to update is the drivers for your particular hardware, a system image and you can cook a ROM for your device. I can bet that there are ROM's for your device that have this update, you just didn't bother to look. Android is quite organic and most good ROM's are actually cooked by the community.

Yes but what about the average person who knows nothing about that kind of thing?
Buy an iPhone. Nobody said using Google for updates was easy. ;)

On a serious note though, is typing "Android" + "The name of your device" + "The edition you are interested in" + "ROM" so incredibly difficult? I updated the ROM of my device when I was 14-15, I don't see why other users wouldn't be able to. That, and you can go to any random phone repair store and they'll do it for you on the spot.

I think I would be aware of that, but the ROMs that developers make just aren't as good as real official ones. They are slow, unstable, and very buggy. I would rather use something reliable.
Custom ROMs are the exact oposite of what you just said because they have the branding crap and slow-mo-ware removed.
 
Yes but those are the only Custom ROM's that are based on stock. Not ported from another phone. Then you get problems such as drivers, were if you want an ICS custom ROM you can't get one because HTC doesn't open source their drivers.
 
I'm just stating my opinion, I'm no cursader - I won't forcefuly Androidize you, I just gave you my opinion and a set of arguments that I believe validate it. The thread has been derailed enough, let's finish it here.
 
And I agree. It's quite acceptable to release a tablet/product on a yearly basis. In fact I prefer it that way.
I wonder what you'd do if Nintendo released a new DS each year cutting the compatibility and support to the previous model. :creep:

Apple gets a pass because it's Apple? I don't think so.
I don't really care anyway. Simply because I don't buy these products every year or whenever they launched.
Fair play, but by accepting complete make-overs of a device on a yearly basis you accept the fact that your $300+ worth device will become obselete by the end of the year.

The DS Lite was just a smaller DS, the DSi was an upgrade, the DSi XL was just a bigger DSi, altogether you had one hardware update throughout the whole DS cycle.

What would happen if Sony did it with the PS3,4,5,6? Or Nintendo with 3,4,5DS? Or Microsoft with the XBox 1024 and so on and so forth?

It's unacceptable to sentence users to "obseleteness" within a year.
First of all, game consoles and smartphones are completely different markets. Smartphones are subsidized by the price of the contract, and users are permitted (and encouraged) to update their phone to the latest and greatest every two years.

Consoles/handhelds, on the other hand, are only mildly subsidized based on the hope that you will buy games for it. People buy new Consoles/handhelds based solely on luxury, if they want a game on that platform so bad that they have to go and buy it. Phones are bought and upgraded because they are necessary, they are a communication device. When customers walk into a carrier after their upgrade is available, the sales rep is going to push them towards the latest greatest smartphone with the highest pricetag and data plan, they're paid on commission so it's in their interest to make customers buy more.

Not only that, but consoles typically come out with kickass hardware that isn't fully used or optimized until a few years into it's life span, while on smartphones, the games are usually simple things that don't take many system resources (excluding the likes of Infinity Blade). Plus development for the consoles is typically much longer because developers are making a longer, more involved gaming with much better graphics.

You aren't making any sense at all. My phone which came out like 6 months ago still doesn't have an ICS update. Apple is still updating the iPhone 3GS which is a 3 year old phone. And what do you mean nothing forces you to upgrade? How does one force someone to upgrade there iPhone 4 to the iPhone 4S? You can still run the iPhone 4 and it will be fine, no one is forcing you to update.
Android is a Linux-based system - all you need to update is the drivers for your particular hardware, a system image and you can cook a ROM for your device. I can bet that there are ROM's for your device that have this update, you just didn't bother to look. Android is quite organic and most good ROM's are actually cooked by the community.

Yes but what about the average person who knows nothing about that kind of thing?
Buy an iPhone. Nobody said using Google for updates was easy. ;)

On a serious note though, is typing "Android" + "The name of your device" + "The edition you are interested in" + "ROM" so incredibly difficult? I updated the ROM of my device when I was 14-15, I don't see why other users wouldn't be able to. That, and you can go to any random phone repair store and they'll do it for you on the spot.

I think I would be aware of that, but the ROMs that developers make just aren't as good as real official ones. They are slow, unstable, and very buggy. I would rather use something reliable.
Custom ROMs are the exact oposite of what you just said because they have the branding crap and slow-mo-ware removed.

You absolutely cannot say that since your Android device was easy to unlock, root, and flash, everyone else's is too. The different devices have wildly varying levels of difficulty for doing so, and many (usually lower end) devices can't even be flashed at all (usually because there isn't enough developer interest to crack the bootloader).

I can't speak about phone repair stores, they might offer the service, but who's going to pay to have someone update your phone? If you're geeky enough to care about getting custom ROMs, you can probably get it on there yourself.

And don't act like all Custom ROMs are a glorious, perfect world. While there are many that are very stable, there are far more than aren't. A manufacturer's ROM on the other hand, is always stable when it's released. People who want their phone to actually be functional all the time and depend on it for communication need to have that reliability.
 
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By no means am I saying that it is an equally-easy task on all makes - of course every phone will have a varied degree of difficulty when it comes to flashing, but don't you think that's a matter of interest for the users of particular phones? I'm also not saying that all Custom ROM's are glorious, I just said that the great majority is actually an improvement over the stock ones. I don't think that the stock firmware is always 100% stable - that's not a general rule, that's a matter of who designed and customized it - there are better and worse stocks.

I also disagree with your point that phones are upgraded because of the necessity of communication - communication implies that a phone is supposed to make phonecalls and send texts, everything over that is extra functionality. You don't even need a smartphone to satisfy that need and you don't need any updates to facilitate it - that much I can assure you of.

When it comes to development, it is only "quicker" because many smartphones are really based off of similar blueprints with certain parts replaced with different ones. Not once and not twice have I seen two smartphones of basically the exact same make but marketed as two different products due to some superficial difference.

Not only that, not all people buy phones on a contract - I actually buy phones boxed and SIM Unlocked, simply because I like my number enough not to change it and I never get "neat enough" deals to actually decide on one.

Other then that, I agree with you, however I do believe you also see my point, even though I grasped it quite crudely. ;)
 
By no means am I saying that it is an equally-easy task on all makes - of course every phone will have a varied degree of difficulty when it comes to flashing, but don't you think that's a matter of interest for the users of particular phones? I'm also not saying that all Custom ROM's are glorious, I just said that the great majority is actually an improvement over the stock ones. I don't think that the stock firmware is always 100% stable - that's not a general rule, that's a matter of who designed and customized it - there are better and worse stocks.

I also disagree with your point that phones are upgraded because of the necessity of communication - communication implies that a phone is supposed to make phonecalls and send texts, everything over that is extra functionality. You don't even need a smartphone to satisfy that need and you don't need any updates to facilitate it - that much I can assure you of.

When it comes to development, it is only "quicker" because many smartphones are really based off of similar blueprints with certain parts replaced with different ones. Not once and not twice have I seen two smartphones of basically the exact same make but marketed as two different products due to some superficial difference.

Not only that, not all people buy phones on a contract - I actually buy phones boxed and SIM Unlocked, simply because I like my number enough not to change it and I never get "neat enough" deals to actually decide on one.

Other then that, I agree with you, however I do believe you also see my point, even though I grasped it quite crudely. ;)
Official ROMs from the OEM undergo far more extensive testing than Custom ROMs (maybe CyanogenMod is an exception). I never said they were 100% stable, but they're significantly more stable than Custom ROMs.

I didn't mean to say they're upgraded because of a necessity of communication, but that the phone itself is necessary because of communication and it's other utilities (that only smartphones provide) such as an actually good and efficient email experience, a web browser, calender, etc. Furthermore there are tons of desirable reasons to own the latest and greatest smartphone, and people can use the excuse that it's necessary to make them more efficient, it feeds their consumerism.

I was referring to the development of software, not the physical device, and it's not like Apple is the only one who retreads designs.

From what I've heard, it is different in other parts of the world, but in the US, there are no regular consumers who even have the thought cross their mind that they could buy their phone off contract. Carriers are the phone sellers, and they control everything to do with your phone in the US, just the way it is.
 
From what I've heard, it is different in other parts of the world, but in the US, there are no regular consumers who even have the thought cross their mind that they could buy their phone off contract. Carriers are the phone sellers, and they control everything to do with your phone in the US, just the way it is.
That is truly a shame. Where I live, you can cheaply buy a phone on-contract or you can opt to pay the full price of the phone and buy it unlocked with the stock, non-branded firmware in just about any supermarket or electronics store. I can't even begin to explain why this is an exceptionally good deal if you can afford it.

I can see what you mean by the "update for better connectivity" now, but then again, I doubt anyone in their right mind uses the stock browser on either device - they're usually pretty nasty compared to third-party ones. :P

That said, it's best if I eject from the thread before I get pitch-forked out of it. :P We unnecessarily shifted to phones when the innitial chit-chat was actually about the iPad.

In my opinion, "deprecating" a year-old device that costed me $300+ bucks is simply a slap in the face, and it's hard not to treat it that way when "hardware needs to be updated" despite compatibility, and that was the exact case with SIRI with which this whole argument even started. I only said "iPhone" because I have a nasty tendency of treating the iPad as an iPhone on steroids. :P
 
You aren't making any sense at all. My phone which came out like 6 months ago still doesn't have an ICS update. Apple is still updating the iPhone 3GS which is a 3 year old phone. And what do you mean nothing forces you to upgrade? How does one force someone to upgrade there iPhone 4 to the iPhone 4S? You can still run the iPhone 4 and it will be fine, no one is forcing you to update.
Android is a Linux-based system - all you need to update is the drivers for your particular hardware, a system image and you can cook a ROM for your device. I can bet that there are ROM's for your device that have this update, you just didn't bother to look. Android is quite organic and most good ROM's are actually cooked by the community.

Yes but what about the average person who knows nothing about that kind of thing?

The average person wouldn't own an android phone but instead be blinded advertisements and what's 'cool' and buy an iPhone instead. If you're smart enough to buy an android, you're smart enough (or likely to know someone) to know how to update it.
 
It's unacceptable to sentence users to "obseleteness" within a year.
Sent from my obsolete Android 2.3 device
Google are combating that. Starting with ICS, all manufacturers releasing devices with officially certified Android (i.e. if they have Market access by default) have to guarantee updates for a certain period of time. Can't remember what it is, but it is there. With Apple, there is no guarantee. Yes, they do update older devices for a while, but there is no guarantee they have made that they will do that.
 
It's unacceptable to sentence users to "obseleteness" within a year.
Sent from my obsolete Android 2.3 device
Google are combating that. Starting with ICS, all manufacturers releasing devices with officially certified Android (i.e. if they have Market access by default) have to guarantee updates for a certain period of time. Can't remember what it is, but it is there. With Apple, there is no guarantee. Yes, they do update older devices for a while, but there is no guarantee they have made that they will do that.

but they do do it. so you rather have a promise than an action?
 
It's unacceptable to sentence users to "obseleteness" within a year.
Sent from my obsolete Android 2.3 device
Google are combating that. Starting with ICS, all manufacturers releasing devices with officially certified Android (i.e. if they have Market access by default) have to guarantee updates for a certain period of time. Can't remember what it is, but it is there. With Apple, there is no guarantee. Yes, they do update older devices for a while, but there is no guarantee they have made that they will do that.

but they do do it. so you rather have a promise than an action?
They have in the past, there is no guarantee they will in future. You cannot possibly use historical events as a factual prediction of the future.
 
It's unacceptable to sentence users to "obseleteness" within a year.
Sent from my obsolete Android 2.3 device
Google are combating that. Starting with ICS, all manufacturers releasing devices with officially certified Android (i.e. if they have Market access by default) have to guarantee updates for a certain period of time. Can't remember what it is, but it is there. With Apple, there is no guarantee. Yes, they do update older devices for a while, but there is no guarantee they have made that they will do that.

but they do do it. so you rather have a promise than an action?
They have in the past, there is no guarantee they will in future. You cannot possibly use historical events as a factual prediction of the future.

and have you read the full description of the android upgrade guarantee? can they really hold manufacturers legally liable to upgrade their devices? i wouldn't think they can.

and yes, historical events are more reliable than wishy washy guarantees. for all you know a gurantee update might be a totally gimped update just to fill the requirement.
 
I am pretty sure in the iPhone EULA, it says updates for 3 years. But I'll have to double check on that. When / if I do, I'll edit this post.

EDIT: I was wrong. It doesn't mention any time frame.
 

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