American Economy in a Tailspin

[titan_tim]

Things are hitting the fan much sooner than anyone could have estimated!

- In less than a month:
The S&P 500 went from 6,163 to 5,596.
The DOW went from 44,811 to 41,890.
The Nasdaq went from 22,250 to 19,299.

- Almost all tech stocks have gone down immensely, and in three months Tesla has gone from $480 to $222 with no signs of slowing.
- The American dollar has gone down in value across the world.
- Canadians are booing the American national anthem whenever they get the chance.
- The UK has said outright that they can no longer rely on the US.
- I'll even give a write-off for eggs going from $4 a dozen to $14 due to the bird flu. However prices across the country are going up still!
- Trump himself has said he wouldn't rule out a recession.

These are all repercussions from Trump:
- Putting tariffs on other countries.
- Causing mass chaos within his own government.
- Cutting programs in order to give a giant tax cut for the rich.
- Blatantly siding with Putin against an allied country.

Again, this has only been three months. How much worse do you think it'll get in a year? In four years?

 

[Xzi]

Just wait until they start fucking with social security checks, that's all the money some people have to contribute to the economy. I do think pushing us toward a recession/depression is intentional though, it allows billionaires and corporations to buy up an even bigger slice of the pie for pennies on the dollar, much like they did following the 2008 crash.

 

[titan_tim]

Just wait until they start fucking with social security checks, that's all the money some people have to contribute to the economy. I do think pushing us toward a recession/depression is intentional though, it allows billionaires and corporations to buy up an even bigger slice of the pie for pennies on the dollar, much like they did following the 2008 crash.

Oh shoot! I forgot they're cutting $880 billion from Medicaid as well!!! Yeah, that's definitely not going to go over well.

Gotta find 4.5 trillion for those rich people SOMEWHERE!

 

[CMDreamer]

In all this, -thanks to Trumpet who still lives in the world from 10 years ago-, the only ones that will pay for his screw-ups will be USA's citizens -directly or indirectly-.

They will be forced to do jobs they don't even know exist, over-pay taxes, and that's just the beginning of it all.

 

[DarknessPlay3r]

Just wait until they start fucking with social security checks, that's all the money some people have to contribute to the economy. I do think pushing us toward a recession/depression is intentional though, it allows billionaires and corporations to buy up an even bigger slice of the pie for pennies on the dollar, much like they did following the 2008 crash.

This is exactly what's happening. The sad thing is, thanks to stuff like meta, google, ect. They have plenty of data on how to convince people that the things being done are for the benefit of the same people they are screwing over. (I got enough ignorant users who I've blocked here; who are proof of this.)

The rest who see this is for what it is, don't really have a good course of action to take to course correct.

The people who would normally fight back, usually through violence are pacified or brainwashed, and the rest of the population isn't willing to go to that extreme (can't blame them either)

Modern media/journalism is designed around misdirection and dis/misinformation, because of who it benefits.

It's a new era of Kings, disguised as "politicians" and "elected officials"

 

[chrisrlink]

ever heard of the second part of the second amendment (the right to rebel if a tyranical government takes shape?) not only that it is also baked into the nato charter and others signed after WW2) basicly if it meets the requirements of an oppressive regime survivors of the overthrow are protected from treason charge

Post automatically merged: Mar 11, 2025

more info on the IL side (Geniva con and Roman charter) https://www.justsecurity.org/95653/right-to-rebellion/

Post automatically merged: Mar 11, 2025

edit heres thethe checklist of what IL defines as an oppressive government (seems like we had the green light to rebel for a month at least

Human rights violations

• Freedom of expression: Censorship, surveillance, and persecution of the media
• Freedom of movement: Forced deportation
• Torture: Used in judicial and extra-judicial processes
• Persecution: Of religious and ethnic minorities, human rights advocates, and trade unions
• Discrimination: Based on race, gender, disability, or other factors

the only thing trump hasn't done (yet) is torture/killing innocent civilians

 

[titan_tim]

ever heard of the second part of the second amendment (the right to rebel if a tyranical government takes shape?) not only that it is also baked into the nato charter and others signed after WW2) basicly if it meets the requirements of an oppressive regime survivors of the overthrow are protected from treason charge

What do you do when the majority of nut-bags with guns actually believe that the government isn't tyrannical? They'll let all their social security and jobs be taken away as long as they think it's sticking it to the dems.

 

[DiscostewSM]

Oh shoot! I forgot they're cutting $880 billion from Medicaid as well!!! Yeah, that's definitely not going to go over well.

Gotta find 4.5 trillion for those rich people SOMEWHERE!

If I recall correctly, $880 billion is practically their entire budget.

Post automatically merged: Mar 11, 2025

Just wait until they start fucking with social security checks, that's all the money some people have to contribute to the economy.

The thing about Social Security is that it is separately funded by the people of the country not really meant for anything other than financial assistance for retirement, disability, etc. Technically, it's supposed to have a surplus as more of the young generation contribute to it even when the older generation that are eligible take from it. The reason why it isn't is because government has been "borrowing" from it and not putting back in. If they were to cut Social Security, it not only would result in them not having to pay back what they borrowed, but they'll take whatever is left in it for their own purposes, including giving the rich their tax breaks.

 

[titan_tim]

The thing about Social Security is that it is separately funded by the people of the country not really meant for anything other than financial assistance for retirement, disability, etc. Technically, it's supposed to have a surplus as more of the young generation contribute to it even when the older generation that are eligible take from it. The reason why it isn't is because government has been "borrowing" from it and not putting back in. If they were to cut Social Security, it not only would result in them not having to pay back what they borrowed, but they'll take whatever is left in it for their own purposes, including giving the rich their tax breaks.

But they kept saying that it's a ponzi scheme, and therefore they have the right to go in and take it from all the people who have been contributing to it for their entire lives..... I mean, that couldn't have been a lie, could it?!

 

[SeltzerMist]

I track my retirement account every pay period (just out of curiosity and to observe trends) and it has not been doing great the last couple months.

 

[Taleweaver]

Hmm...while I can't deny seeing all Biden's post-covid economic momentum going down the drain, I figured it was just a tad early to raise the alarm.
* Yup, I've seen the news that the tech companies have lost billions since the inauguration. Yes, actively boycotting tesla is a hot thing here. Yes, bluesky is a valid alternative to X. Yes, my local news media spreads potential alternatives to amazon. The big question is: so what? The current wealth inequality is of such degree that what to us mortals sound like fortunes going down the drain, I honestly can't say if that's not just pocket change for them. Musk has his hand in dozens of companies, so even if tesla manages to bankrupt, he's not going to lose much aside reputation. And some of his other ventures (eg starlink) are "kind of" harder to boycott.
* the whole "firing the entire government" thing is a strong signal to the market that something's going wrong, especially with the added news that these are done both thorough and reckless. This isn't just adding to the unemployment rate (never a good economical indicator), but it harkens to the very functioning of a country. I'm no expert, but I think the actual experts see this as a sellout (whether its intentional or not is irrelevant).
* I'm actually a bit annoyed by the whole egg-price thing. There's bird flu, okay? That's why there are less eggs, and that's why they're more expensive. Yes, Trump has given the wrong signal by also cutting into the health and safety inspection side of government, but otherwise this is beyond his control. Focussing on it is a false signal, as this will stabilize in a couple months.
* I have to ask...did Trump at ANY point in his campaign mention anything about tariffs on the closest neighbors? This whole drug traficking thing isn't even pretending to be anything but a joke, so I'm presuming this is intentional. Whether it's to divert attention, to cause chaos or just for lulz I cannot say.

That all said...I have a few nitpicks with the OP:

* the booing of the US anthem in Canada is pretty much only for the tariffs placed on the country. I can't rule out they're booing some other aspects of Trump's behavior, but even so...how is this part economic news? If you're talking Canada, mention that they're putting huge tariffs on US goods in return. Mention they're responding to how the US (supposedly? ) also acts: by encouraging to buy local rather than import from the US. Mention that both Canada and Mexico are direct neighbors and as such are the logical trading partners (just ask the UK how well cutting off ties went...and economically they did far less to the EU than the 250% Trump is flirting with).
* that "wouldn't rule out a recession" remark. Trump is just way out of his depth here. I've heard hims say that, but it was his typical spiel. Meaning: he said he "wouldn't rule out a recession" in a same way he wouldn't rule out going golfing during the weekend, or that he might fire <insert anyone's name>. It was just an absent-minded remark by someone with his mind on other things (if any at all).
* I don't see how the siding with Russia is economical news.

 

[titan_tim]

Hmm...while I can't deny seeing all Biden's post-covid economic momentum going down the drain, I figured it was just a tad early to raise the alarm.

Currently, it's bad, but I agree. Not alarm bells yet. Which is why I asked what people thought it would be after a year or four years. Three months to do this much damage is pretty out of the ordinary.

Musk has his hand in dozens of companies, so even if tesla manages to bankrupt, he's not going to lose much aside reputation. And some of his other ventures (eg starlink) are "kind of" harder to boycott.

Musk has most of his money tied up with his companies. Out of his 400 billion that he was worth, he's lost about 150 billion in the last little while due to stocks. Sure, he'll never be poor, but it's definitely taken the wind out of his sails.

* the whole "firing the entire government" thing is a strong signal to the market that something's going wrong, especially with the added news that these are done both thorough and reckless. This isn't just adding to the unemployment rate (never a good economical indicator), but it harkens to the very functioning of a country. I'm no expert, but I think the actual experts see this as a sellout (whether its intentional or not is irrelevant).

Gutting the departments which are there to keep companies honest is only an indicator that rich people want more ability to get away with horrible working practices. But that's just one section of all the different departments getting fired, so who knows.

* I'm actually a bit annoyed by the whole egg-price thing. There's bird flu, okay? That's why there are less eggs, and that's why they're more expensive.

Yeah, that's why I said it wasn't really an issue. Trump can't Un-kill the infected birds. But it's still moronic of him on the campaign trail to complain about the prices of eggs and say that they'll come down on day one, and then see the price triple so soon.

* I have to ask...did Trump at ANY point in his campaign mention anything about tariffs on the closest neighbors? This whole drug traficking thing isn't even pretending to be anything but a joke, so I'm presuming this is intentional. Whether it's to divert attention, to cause chaos or just for lulz I cannot say.

Yes, many times. Over and over again. People on the left were ringing the warning bells saying that tariffs are a tax on themselves, but nobody listened.

* the booing of the US anthem in Canada is pretty much only for the tariffs placed on the country.

There are the tariffs..... and you know, the whole making Canada the 51st state garbage he kept touting.

they're putting huge tariffs on US goods in return. Mention they're responding to how the US (supposedly? ) also acts: by encouraging to buy local rather than import from the US.

That's usually how things go when a country does that. It's how Trump lost the tariff wars with China the last time. The soy farmers were hit so hard, they were put on subsidies just to survive. Canada is doing more strategic tariffs as well, targeting red states for a lot of them. Canadians buying Canadian products is just the outcome of Trump's 'Us vs Them' mentality. Luckily Canadians are much more unified in their goal, whereas the US is split entirely.

* that "wouldn't rule out a recession" remark. Trump is just way out of his depth here. I've heard hims say that, but it was his typical spiel. Meaning: he said he "wouldn't rule out a recession" in a same way he wouldn't rule out going golfing during the weekend, or that he might fire <insert anyone's name>. It was just an absent-minded remark by someone with his mind on other things (if any at all).

The market demands stability to do well. Trump went from "We're going to bring prices down on day one!" and "You're all going to be so rich!" to 'Well, I can't rule out a recession'. The market and investors react seriously to that sort of change in attitude.

* I don't see how the siding with Russia is economical news.

Loss of worldwide trust, and less desire to do business within the country. That's from a culmination of all of this administrations bizarre choices, but this one is also an important part of the amalgamation of mistakes so far. Depending on how blatantly Trump licks Putin's feet, there may be sanctions against the US from other countries.

Jesus, that was long. Sorry!

 

[Taleweaver]

Sorry...I'm at work, so I have to divide my attention. I haven't addressed how I see the future. Well...
For starters: feel free to call me paranoid, but it's my opinion.


That said...I think this is deliberate.
Think about it this way: when the USSR fell, it created a vacuum where all the government's assets were sold dirt cheap to robber barons that would later become oligarchs.
While he might have many fooled, Trump knows damn well he's a convicted criminal that manages to keep out of trouble by, ironically, creating more trouble. It's something he's somehow become good at, seeing how he's still pretty damn rich for someone who bankrupted six times.
In one of the handful books I've read on Trump's first term, one encounter was with an economist who burst out "you can't do that! That'll bankrupt the country!" to some measurement. To which Trump replied something akin to "so what?"...after which the economist realised that he was dealing with someone who bankrupted himself to success.
While controversial, the first administration was still for a large part acting as guard rails to Trump's stupidity(1). Nowadays, nobody in his inner circle criticizes Trump.
I flat out don't know Musk enough to have more than vague theories, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's his plan to bankrupt the country in order to then buy up parts of the gutted infrastructure(2). Trump has no reason not to go along with it, as he's got enough money to buy himself some parts of it, and it'd actually mean the end of any chance of prosecution for his former actions.

So...TL;DR: I predict a US bankrupcy before the 2028 election.



(1): their words, though I won't deny I believe it 100%
(2): in other words: I suspect Musk wants to buy NASA for less than it's currently worth

 

[gamefan5]

Day one: It's going to a great economic growth for the americans!!

Few days earlier: There will be no recession because Trump keeps winning!!!!

Today during the press conference: We cannot deny the possibility of a recession happening.

Me: *Chef's kiss
Gotta love it when CoMmOn SeNsE makes its magic work.

This administration is a riot.

 

[titan_tim]

Day one: It's going to a great economic growth for the americans!!

Few days earlier: There will be no recession because Trump keeps winning!!!!

Today during the press conference: We cannot deny the possibility of a recession happening.

Me: *Chef's kiss
Gotta love it when CoMmOn SeNsE makes its magic work.

This administration is a riot.

I was thinking that he would possibly see the current state of the market and take the foot off the gas. Then if the market started to recover, he'd say "See, the market is just fine!". Instead, it seems he's doubling down on tariffs to Canadian steed and aluminum. All because Canada put their own tariffs to fight against his tariffs. It's just a giant joke.

What's funny is, we probably won't see the usual suspects of supporters here to try and spin it. Pretty hard to spin what is demonstrably horrible.

 

[LoggerMan]

Hard to have faith in the American economy when you are looking to invest and the President creates a 25% tax on steel and aluminium imports, then suddenly raises it to 50%. You may be better off investing in countries that will now be buying those resources instead.

 

[Exidous]

Think about it this way: when the USSR fell, it created a vacuum where all the government's assets were sold dirt cheap to robber barons that would later become oligarchs.

This is an incredibly destructive canard that has been cultivated by Putin in order to rabble rouse his orcs, to ease those inclined to blame 'capitalism' for Russia's myriad social ills into his war machine. That the Western left is still clinging to it speaks for itself both on your historical susceptibility to Russian propaganda and your own confirmation bias. That you're using it here to theorize an incoherent supervillain plot for the Trump administration is stupid and counterproductive - Trump can still be an evil asshole, and more people will believe it if you aren't superimposing nonsense on top of your accusations.

So...TL;DR: I predict a US bankrupcy before the 2028 election.

The US is nowhere near needing to sell state assets to pay current debts to foreign powers, as Russia had to. Frankly, given the structure of US debt, the US likely never will be in such a position regardless of how horrific the fiscal situation gets. There would certainly be consequences in a horrific fiscal situation (most likely massive inflation), but none of them will be 'we just sold the Washington Monument to evil oligarchs.'

A declared US bankruptcy (assuming it actually happens) would mean future borrowing costs increase - frankly, because the US would be likely to repudiate the national debt in such a scenario, especially the foreign held portions. Only then would the future prospect of selling state assets be conceivable, after foreign powers insist on such collateral for subsequent loans. Right now US bondholders stand to get nothing in a national debt repudiation scenario.

As an aside, the main reason Russia was poor in the 90s was because it very suddenly lost more than one hundred million slaves in Eastern Europe and Asia. Not because the fallen slave empire's oil assets (fka nothing for the serfs) suddenly became private oil assets (barely anything for the serfs). Privatization turned nothing into at least something, as far as the orcish commoner's well being was concerned. Concern about the sale price of those assets being too low can be slotted somewhere between Russia seizing Western passenger planes and de facto ending copyright, among concerns about contracting in Russia. You know, significant, but well below the whole genocidal invasion of Europe, thing.

 

[titan_tim]

The US is nowhere near needing to sell state assets to pay current debts to foreign powers, as Russia had to. Frankly, given the structure of US debt, the US likely never will be in such a position regardless of how horrific the fiscal situation gets. There would certainly be consequences in a horrific fiscal situation (most likely massive inflation), but none of them will be 'we just sold the Washington Monument to evil oligarchs.'

The US debt is definitely near a breaking point. This video really opened my eyes on what Trump may be trying to do. It's kind of a crazy but smart plan if true. It also kind of puts a lot of Trump's comments about hurting a bit into context.

Basically, Trump may be ruining the economy purposely in order to force the fed to lower interest rates. A large portion of the US debt is set to be refinanced soon, and if that is done at a much lower rate than its currently high point, then the US will have more time to pay things off without having to worry about interest. I didn't realize, but the US is currently paying more on interest than military spending currently. That's CRAZY!

 

[Viri]

American eco has been in "tailspin" since 2020. lmao

 

[titan_tim]

American eco has been in "tailspin" since 2020. lmao

That isn't true at all. The US had the strongest recovery from COVID in comparison to all other developed countries. Jobs were way up. Salaries were increasing. Inflation was getting towards the expected 2%. Stocks were booming.