Thoughts about otaku/anime fan stuff

[quote name='Blebleman' post='3581952' date='Apr 10 2011, 10:40 AM'][quote name='DeathStrudel' post='3581942' date='Apr 10 2011, 10:33 AM'][quote name='Blebleman' post='3581916' date='Apr 10 2011, 10:23 AM']When I was a teenager, I'd watch anime once in a while (a lot each time though), back when "the classics" came out, and it was a cool foreign-movie type of thing. I would never have cosplayed.
That was at least ten years ago, and that was the closest to an "otaku" (by your terms) that I've ever been.

I was sincerely learning Japanese to play games back then. I thought it'd be good listening practice, and I might be entertained as well.
Then I started watching Dramas (which is much much much much better practice, btw!), and watched less and less anime.

Then I learned Japanese.
Then I went to Japan.
Then I got married.

Let me set the record straight : the anime you guys watch and that people tell you is for kids....well, they're right. I do not know one sane Japanese adult that watches anime. Sure, they'll read manga. But those animated cartoon versions are exactly that -- like Fox's Saturday Morning cartoons. They are targeted towards the kid/preteen audience. A lot of the manga series themselves are too (Shounen Manga,right?). One interesting exception is One Piece. Now, I don't know s**t about One Piece, but an interesting study showed that a majority of their readership is in their mid-late twenties, a sharp contrast to most of the other serialized series.

I know a lot of you are young, and that's OK, enjoy your youth. But Otaku culture is definitely not encouraged in Japan. Just like your American/Canadian/English/Australian girlfriend might say "Aren't those for kids?", I can personally guarantee that most Japanese girls will say the same.

Some of the series are genuinely entertaining! Take it like watching a good movie, or reading a really good book. But would you dress up as Harry Potter on weekends with your friends? Would you dress up as Frodo or Darth Maul?

I can sincerely recommend to those of you who are older, and honestly interested in the language to start watching Dramas. You can get a lot of them subtitled, and they present a much more realistic view of Japan, as well as the language (NO ONE SPEAKS LIKE ANIME IN REAL LIFE.).[/quote]
I'm not trying to say you're wrong, but if it's only for children then why do they have anime that is targeted towards mature men/women and certainly wouldn't be suitable for children? Gantz is a prime example of something that children should definitely not be watching
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I totally agree with you! There are many good series targeted for a seinen or adult audience! (Hokuto no Ken comes to mind for me, hahahaha!). Honestly I can't really bash on those, but as long as people remember all things are good in moderation, like all things in life.
Adult Manga is where you go when you want a fantasy setting, considering Drama series don't really do fantasy.
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But most anime isn't for kids (such as Dragonball Z, thanks to censoring it gets classified as that, though). I mean, it really goes without saying people don't speak like they speak in anime. Personally, I don't think that anime should be limited to a specific audience kids only, nor do I believe it matters what others say about age appropriate content, if I didn't I wouldn't still play pokemon.

When anyone says anime is for kids, I recommend Kodomo no Jikan and for the fools that actually watch this in an attempt to prove me wrong they change their opinions real quick.

I myself am not familiar with Japanese culture (I've never been to Japan before, so that would be why) but I would like to refute one argument you (Blebleman) brought up. That anime, or any kind of animation, is for kids. Granted, you will have series that are like Blue Clues, or Anpanman which have a clear child audience in mind, but a lot of animation is geared to an adult (Or general) audience. Yeah, you'll obviously get looks for dressing up like the characters, and letting it control your life, but I think there's a good balance you can achieve when watching. As an example, people who watch a lot of tv (In any country) are also looked down upon because the habit is obsessive and unhealthy. However, I'm sure an adult wouldn't get odd looks or considered an otaku/nerd if they enjoyed animation and watched movies and tv series. It's all a matter of keeping the hobby in a non-life controlling state.

I consider myself somewhat of an animation enthusiast, so I won't be switching to dramas anytime soon. I'm definitely unusual in this regard, but that's just how I am. I grew up on Mickey Mouse and Disney, and I still find those cartoons funny and relevant to me today. If animation was only for kids, you wouldn't see adult oriented cartoons.

Blebleman never said anime was only/just for kids, so no need to attack him with the bandwagon effect.

[quote name='phoenixgoddess27' post='3582041' date='Apr 10 2011, 06:23 PM']Blebleman never said anime was only/just for kids, so no need to attack him with the bandwagon effect.[/quote]

Well, he did say the anime "We watched" was for kids so I don't entirely agree with you. And I don't see anyone attacking him here.

[quote name='Tonitonichopchop' post='3582055' date='Apr 10 2011, 10:30 AM'][quote name='phoenixgoddess27' post='3582041' date='Apr 10 2011, 06:23 PM']Blebleman never said anime was only/just for kids, so no need to attack him with the bandwagon effect.[/quote]

Well, he did say the anime "We watched" was for kids so I don't entirely agree with you. And I don't see anyone attacking him here.
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I'm not asking you to agree with me, I just said he never said the words "only" or "just", which is why I put them in bold.

[quote name='phoenixgoddess27' post='3582063' date='Apr 10 2011, 11:34 AM'][quote name='Tonitonichopchop' post='3582055' date='Apr 10 2011, 10:30 AM'][quote name='phoenixgoddess27' post='3582041' date='Apr 10 2011, 06:23 PM']Blebleman never said anime was only/just for kids, so no need to attack him with the bandwagon effect.[/quote]

Well, he did say the anime "We watched" was for kids so I don't entirely agree with you. And I don't see anyone attacking him here.
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I'm not asking you to agree with me, I just said he never said the words "only" or "just", which is why I put them in bold.
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But he pretty much said that it was mostly for kids and that its considered weird in japan for adults to watch anime

[quote name='DeathStrudel' post='3582074' date='Apr 10 2011, 10:39 AM']But he pretty much said that it was mostly for kids and that its considered weird in japan for adults to watch anime[/quote]

Mostly, doesn't make it only. He's not entirely wrong either. Densetsu could probably vouch for him, but in my opinion, it depends on what you're interested in, no matter where you are. Not everyone in Japan watches it, but they do read a lot of manga. The majority of my Japanese friends in Japan read manga rather than watch anime, too. But he never said it was only for kids as you said yourself, he said mostly. Each person has their own interests, so there's no way it's only for kids.

[quote name='DeathStrudel' post='3582074' date='Apr 10 2011, 04:39 PM'][quote name='phoenixgoddess27' post='3582063' date='Apr 10 2011, 11:34 AM'][quote name='Tonitonichopchop' post='3582055' date='Apr 10 2011, 10:30 AM'][quote name='phoenixgoddess27' post='3582041' date='Apr 10 2011, 06:23 PM']Blebleman never said anime was only/just for kids, so no need to attack him with the bandwagon effect.[/quote]

Well, he did say the anime "We watched" was for kids so I don't entirely agree with you. And I don't see anyone attacking him here.
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I'm not asking you to agree with me, I just said he never said the words "only" or "just", which is why I put them in bold.
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But he pretty much said that it was mostly for kids and that its considered weird in japan for adults to watch anime
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Mostly for kids. Which a lot is, let's face it.
Yes, I obviously think that there's nothing wrong with watching anime, but in Japan adults that watch it are, to my knowledge, looked down upon.

Hi oneesama

[quote name='BobTheJoeBob' post='3581807' date='Apr 10 2011, 09:18 AM'][quote name='Linkiboy' post='3580703' date='Apr 9 2011, 10:01 PM'][quote name='DeathStrudel' post='3580651' date='Apr 9 2011, 05:36 PM'][quote name='RiotShooter' post='3580646' date='Apr 9 2011, 05:33 PM'][quote name='Linkiboy' post='3580604' date='Apr 9 2011, 02:06 PM']But inside my circle of friends, I do make a mockery of it. Like, we blast jpop while driving down roads. Problem?[/quote]

LULZ. My friends and I blasts Kpop going down the road sometimes. We get the funniest looks.
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you too are part of the problem. If you actually enjoy it then why would you want to give it a bad image?
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Because we're mature enough to not care what people think of us.

Edit: no one knows what it is anyway. If anything we're giving it a better image that it would receive by default. Ignorant school-age students associate it, by default, with quiet nerds who might blow up the school (since anime is unpopular, etc, for nerds, whatever). That's America's current perception of it. Now image 4 huge/ripped guys in a Mini Cooper blasting it. Case in point.
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You do realise that not everyone likes the music you like? When you're blasting your music as loud as you bloody can down the road, it can irritate people, and doing it makes you look like a dick, no matter what genre of music it is.
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Well obviously. I don't really care. The point was, that it doesn't matter whether its jpop or generic radio songs. We're not giving it a worse image than what it receives by default.

[quote name='Linkiboy' post='3582359' date='Apr 10 2011, 02:35 PM'][quote name='BobTheJoeBob' post='3581807' date='Apr 10 2011, 09:18 AM'][quote name='Linkiboy' post='3580703' date='Apr 9 2011, 10:01 PM'][quote name='DeathStrudel' post='3580651' date='Apr 9 2011, 05:36 PM'][quote name='RiotShooter' post='3580646' date='Apr 9 2011, 05:33 PM'][quote name='Linkiboy' post='3580604' date='Apr 9 2011, 02:06 PM']But inside my circle of friends, I do make a mockery of it. Like, we blast jpop while driving down roads. Problem?[/quote]

LULZ. My friends and I blasts Kpop going down the road sometimes. We get the funniest looks.
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you too are part of the problem. If you actually enjoy it then why would you want to give it a bad image?
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Because we're mature enough to not care what people think of us.

Edit: no one knows what it is anyway. If anything we're giving it a better image that it would receive by default. Ignorant school-age students associate it, by default, with quiet nerds who might blow up the school (since anime is unpopular, etc, for nerds, whatever). That's America's current perception of it. Now image 4 huge/ripped guys in a Mini Cooper blasting it. Case in point.
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You do realise that not everyone likes the music you like? When you're blasting your music as loud as you bloody can down the road, it can irritate people, and doing it makes you look like a dick, no matter what genre of music it is.
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Well obviously. I don't really care. The point was, that it doesn't matter whether its jpop or generic radio songs. We're not giving it a worse image than what it receives by default.
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but you're still making no attempt to give it a better one. And really it's just your opinion that you're not giving it a worse image, I think the idea of a bunch of douche bags that blast music is worse than "nerds" as you put it.

edit: and it's not that your mature enough to not care what people think of you, it's that you're too immature to realize that what you're doing is incredibly annoying and demonstrates you're lack of respect for others

I've never really been into anime except during the end of junior high and beginning of high school. Back then I didn't know any Japanese and watched it purely for the story, and also because it was "cool" since I started watching anime way before it ever became mainstream in the US (early to mid-90's).

Once I started studying Japanese, I read Jump Comics in Japanese in order to learn kanji (because all of the kanji in JC manga have furigana), but I moved on to more mature titles a long time ago. I only read manga in Japanese because a lot of the culture is integrated into the language, and you miss out on cultural nuances, puns, and other subtle meanings when you read it in English. The only good English translations are the ones where the translators leave "translator's notes" at the bottom of the page explaining certain things that can't be translated directly. I'm going to have to agree with Blebleman that anime isn't the way to go if you're trying to learn Japanese. I've had weeaboos try to tell me that "dattebayo" is a real Japanese word Dramas are where the money is at. Not only are they a good tool for learning real, spoken Japanese, but they also give you a real look into normal, every day Japanese life (perhaps surprisingly to some, it's not all about perverted demon tentacles and ninja magic and "kawaii" girls with cat ears).

None of my friends in Japan watch anime, but a lot of them read manga. And it's quite common to see adults reading manga while riding on the trains in Japan. It's accepted as a legit form of literature there, every bit as prevalent as novels are.

I don't know very many adults in Japan who watch anime regularly, but there are obviously adults who do watch it. Those kinds of people tend to be more closed off to society and spend a lot of time hikikomori'd in their homes, hence the name "otaku." I'm not saying that all adult enthusiasts of anime are like that, but that's just the tendency. Since otaku are generally associated with hikikomori, the word "otaku" doesn't carry a positive connotation in Japan. The only time a Japanese person would ever refer to himself/herself as an "otaku" would be as a joke.

Some Japanese take the word "otaku" loosely to mean someone who takes their interest very seriously, whether it be plastic Gundam models, anime collectible figures, etc. But even then, they use that word sparingly or as a joke. For example, I've been called a "kanji otaku" by my friends because of my devotion to studying kanji. At the peak of my Japanese ability I was able to read and write even more kanji than most of my native Japanese friends (though that ability has dwindled due to lack of use over the past few years). Whenever they called me a kanji otaku, they'd always pull back and say "I'm sorry, I was just kidding" and laugh nervously. What that told me was that even when they joke about it, it's generally not a word you can use without offending someone at least slightly.

If certain people in this thread are proud to call themselves "otaku" for whatever reason, just know that if you called yourself an otaku in Japan no one's exactly going to admire you for it.

Also, any group of guys blasting any kind of music while cruising in a small car is just asking to get laughed at. At that point, it's not even about the music that's being played, but just the comical image that people fixate on. If you like a certain genre of music, that's fine and all, but if you really didn't care what people think of your interests, you probably wouldn't care enough to make a big show of it.

[quote name='Densetsu9000' post='3583058' date='Apr 11 2011, 02:44 AM']I've never really been into anime except during the end of junior high and beginning of high school. Back then I didn't know any Japanese and watched it purely for the story, and also because it was "cool" since I started watching anime way before it ever became mainstream in the US (early to mid-90's).

Once I started studying Japanese, I read Jump Comics in Japanese in order to learn kanji (because all of the kanji in JC manga have furigana), but I moved on to more mature titles a long time ago. I only read manga in Japanese because a lot of the culture is integrated into the language, and you miss out on cultural nuances, puns, and other subtle meanings when you read it in English. The only good English translations are the ones where the translators leave "translator's notes" at the bottom of the page explaining certain things that can't be translated directly. I'm going to have to agree with Blebleman that anime isn't the way to go if you're trying to learn Japanese. I've had weeaboos try to tell me that "dattebayo" is a real Japanese word Dramas are where the money is at. Not only are they a good tool for learning real, spoken Japanese, but they also give you a real look into normal, every day Japanese life (perhaps surprisingly to some, it's not all about perverted demon tentacles and ninja magic and "kawaii" girls with cat ears).

None of my friends in Japan watch anime, but a lot of them read manga. And it's quite common to see adults reading manga while riding on the trains in Japan. It's accepted as a legit form of literature there, every bit as prevalent as novels are.

I don't know very many adults in Japan who watch anime regularly, but there are obviously adults who do watch it. Those kinds of people tend to be more closed off to society and spend a lot of time hikikomori'd in their homes, hence the name "otaku." I'm not saying that all adult enthusiasts of anime are like that, but that's just the tendency. Since otaku are generally associated with hikikomori, the word "otaku" doesn't carry a positive connotation in Japan. The only time a Japanese person would ever refer to himself/herself as an "otaku" would be as a joke.

Some Japanese take the word "otaku" loosely to mean someone who takes their interest very seriously, whether it be plastic Gundam models, anime collectible figures, etc. But even then, they use that word sparingly or as a joke. For example, I've been called a "kanji otaku" by my friends because of my devotion to studying kanji. At the peak of my Japanese ability I was able to read and write even more kanji than most of my native Japanese friends (though that ability has dwindled due to lack of use over the past few years). Whenever they called me a kanji otaku, they'd always pull back and say "I'm sorry, I was just kidding" and laugh nervously. What that told me was that even when they joke about it, it's generally not a word you can use without offending someone at least slightly.

If certain people in this thread are proud to call themselves "otaku" for whatever reason, just know that if you called yourself an otaku in Japan no one's exactly going to admire you for it.

Also, any group of guys blasting any kind of music while cruising in a small car is just asking to get laughed at. At that point, it's not even about the music that's being played, but just the comical image that people fixate on. If you like a certain genre of music, that's fine and all, but if you really didn't care what people think of your interests, you probably wouldn't care enough to make a big show of it.[/quote]

So basically, Japan is similar to the US? We have the same kind of deal where few adults watch cartoons, but some do but are usually shut-ins. That's actually nice to know.

I also found your info about the word "Otaku" interesting. Makes me wonder how the word acquired positive connotations in the first place...