Is time fixed?

Such that your future is already pre-determined?

A friend brought up this question the other day and I have brainstormed through ideas.

Since time has this very clever way of working through a relationship with the past, present, and future; I decided a good start to approach this would be to try and define this relationship. The best relationship I came up with is that the future is bridged to the present and then things in the present are again bridged to the past. It's pretty obvious but the relationship between these concepts are Future ----> Present ----> Past.

Working from this:
Future ----> Present ----> Past

I decided to think about why I am posting this blog now, it is because I just got into the discussion with a friend. Why did I get into the discussion with my friend, because she asked the question if I thought things were fixed in time. Why did she ask that question, probably because some arbitrary event A led her to asking that question.

Then I formulated a hypothesis, everything we do in the present is some way formulated (or a better term, is influenced) by something of the past. Since we already have some kind of mapping how the future eventually falls into the present, this hypothesis can then raise an extension to everything in the future is influenced by something in the past (where present will eventually be kicked into the past).

In other words, let event_A be the action you are doing now; there exist an event_A-1 that has lead to event_A. The same induction follows through such that there exists an event_A-2 that leads to event_A-1 ... All the way back to there exists an event_1 that leads to event_A-(A-2) or Event_2. In summary, every event has been lead from event_1.

What is event 1?
While event_1 can have some speculation, it is not important although some may argue it is the creation of the universe or the very beginning of time. It is not important because whether it was defined or not would still show significance how everything is derived from one point and creates a linearity line of progression through the events of time and a subset, your life. My friend proceeded to ask the question or random occurrences (such that what if you did something random, how can that bridge off an event) or what if someone can utilize this linear pattern and alter events.

I will begin with the second question, what if someone realizes this linear pattern and tries to alter events.
The only argument I could formulate is an arbitrary event B would lead up to the fact you are trying to realize the pattern. Since arbitrary event B falls in the linearity of these events, an event to try to change the pattern will only continue to have a linear pattern (such that it could have been pre-determined to make that choice to try and alter the pattern thus not really going against it).

Now the true question, randomality.
The next argument was that if I asked you to pick a or b, you have choice to pick one at random, you can either pick a or b or even mix it up and pick both or none. However, once again, this falls in chain with the events, what is the reason why you are picking a or b, what is the reason why I asked you to pick a or b and ... The true question is it so random? If you were to 'randomly' draw a number out of the hat, the number you pick may seem random, but everything is based on position in a way so it is not random at all. Someone with enough brain power can throw a bunch of numbers in a hat and pick the numbers in a linear order on purpose when it may seem random. The only speculation that can be seen is that random is just an illusion. The reason why someone would pick a or b is not at all random, and there may be some unconscious reasoning behind why a or b.

Another supporting argument to back that up is if you could ask the first human being to pick a or b, what response would you get? Based on they can't communicate, you would expect maybe a different response then a or b. Which shows that there can exist an event C that leads to someone to pick either a or b.

---

Conclusion:

Bridging off of the illusion of randomality (some people who do program would know random numbers aren't as random as you would think), I drew to the conclusion that free-will is an illusion. The reason is because we have many different options we can use to do at any second (which throws up this illusion) but with the hypothesis that everything is influenced by a past event, the options we have chosen in the present is because of some influence of the past either consciously or subconsciously and that things are fixed overall.

I know many people do not want to hear this and from this may induce into comments such as "You're wrong {insert invalid argument}"

What does everyone else think?

Comments

Personally I don't worry about such things. As once said by a favourite character of mine, the chances of finding out what's really going on out there are so minutely small that the only logical thing to do is say hang the sense of it all and try to keep yourself busy. I'd rather be happy than right anyday.

Of course I'm not happy and that's where the plan falls down...

Cookie for the reference?
 
My bad. Had Jess distracting me. I'll leave exactly how to your imaginations.

And yes, it was Slartibartfast. Have some cookies.

cookies.jpg
 
[quote name='ProtoKun7' post='3004583' date='Jul 25 2010, 02:50 PM'][quote name='Uncle FEFL' post='3004113' date='Jul 25 2010, 07:01 PM']Er, it's called physics. Water isn't going to roll the opposite way of the slope (ie, "uphill"). It's not an event chain-reaction phenomena, it's a simple physical property of water. Not just water, but ALL liquids.[/quote]
No, but it's chaos theory. It can go straight down, down and a bit to the left then right, left, right, right then left then right then right then left, etc.
[/quote]
Not sure how I'm wrong or how that changes what I said. On a slope, the water will never reverse its initial direction and start moving up the slope. I didn't mention how water would move down the slope, I only mentioned that it would move down the slope, and not up the slope.

EDIT: Just so we're not confused here: I'm disagreeing on his point not his example, lol. So there's no point in us even arguing.
 
When you said it I wasn't quite sure if you had understood everything he said about it. No problem, I wasn't trying to argue either. :)

And of course it won't go up the slope. ;)
 
[quote name='Uncle FEFL' post='3004609' date='Jul 25 2010, 11:06 PM'][quote name='ProtoKun7' post='3004583' date='Jul 25 2010, 02:50 PM'][quote name='Uncle FEFL' post='3004113' date='Jul 25 2010, 07:01 PM']Er, it's called physics. Water isn't going to roll the opposite way of the slope (ie, "uphill"). It's not an event chain-reaction phenomena, it's a simple physical property of water. Not just water, but ALL liquids.[/quote]
No, but it's chaos theory. It can go straight down, down and a bit to the left then right, left, right, right then left then right then right then left, etc.
[/quote]
Not sure how I'm wrong or how that changes what I said. On a slope, the water will never reverse its initial direction and start moving up the slope. I didn't mention how water would move down the slope, I only mentioned that it would move down the slope, and not up the slope.

EDIT: Just so we're not confused here: I'm disagreeing on his point not his example, lol. So there's no point in us even arguing.
[/quote]


That was exactly what I was going at, the Chaos theory had to steal that example from Jurassic Park :)

In no way I'm going to try and prove time is fixed. I was given the question on my opinion on it after looking at both sides I'd rather believe time is fixed and everything is happening by some event of that past in some controversial way. I'm not trying to involve any religious beings or more controversial discussions as we have already seen what happens with that.

While I know the water drop was a horrible example and I know general physics (a year of physics completed), my main point was that every next step the water takes has some influence by an event that has already happened or in the past. In a twisted horrible metaphorically way was supposed to relate to events in general.

Considering that anything anyone says in this thread can't be proved, I offer the challenge to try and disprove something (keeping in mind that being able to find a counter example and there exists a counter example are a world apart from each other).

So I offer you the challenge FEFL, find one event, just a single counterexample, where it has not been influenced by the past. I will either:

A) Re-position my argument realizing there is a counter example.
B) Show you how something of the past actually can affect it maybe in a more indirect way.

You're best bet would be to try and find something that is truly random. For if it was truly random, how can anything affect the outcome. Before you do this, I would read what I put about randomality and how the idea of random is just an illusion and there can exist some factors deciding an outcome. An example was pulling a number out of a hat. While it may seem random, this event is connected by the position of each number in the hat, the numbers are in the hat therefore had some past event associated with it.
 
[quote name='Zetta_x' post='3004973' date='Jul 25 2010, 07:16 PM']That was exactly what I was going at, the Chaos theory had to steal that example from Jurassic Park :)

In no way I'm going to try and prove time is fixed. I was given the question on my opinion on it after looking at both sides I'd rather believe time is fixed and everything is happening by some event of that past in some controversial way. I'm not trying to involve any religious beings or more controversial discussions as we have already seen what happens with that.

While I know the water drop was a horrible example and I know general physics (a year of physics completed), my main point was that every next step the water takes has some influence by an event that has already happened or in the past. In a twisted horrible metaphorically way was supposed to relate to events in general.

Considering that anything anyone says in this thread can't be proved, I offer the challenge to try and disprove something (keeping in mind that being able to find a counter example and there exists a counter example are a world apart from each other).

So I offer you the challenge FEFL, find one event, just a single counterexample, where it has not been influenced by the past. I will either:

A) Re-position my argument realizing there is a counter example.
B) Show you how something of the past actually can affect it maybe in a more indirect way.

You're best bet would be to try and find something that is truly random. For if it was truly random, how can anything affect the outcome. Before you do this, I would read what I put about randomality and how the idea of random is just an illusion and there can exist some factors deciding an outcome. An example was pulling a number out of a hat. While it may seem random, this event is connected by the position of each number in the hat, the numbers are in the hat therefore had some past event associated with it.[/quote]How about quantum fluctuations? Things popping in and out of existence? Things that come from NOTHING? Like, in theory, our universe?
 
Unfortunately I should have added a option C, not sure. While I have had general physics, I have no knowledge of quantum fluctuations. Interesting, makes me want to continue my minor in physics :)
 

Blog entry information

Author
Zetta_x
Views
409
Comments
56
Last update

More entries in Personal Blogs

  • 4: Reddit
    Finally, number 4! Never thought this day would come, did you? Uhh...
  • books
    1. I am cool as hell, have one million dollars 2. I am banned from...
  • Syncthing is fun!
    Having been kinda active in an Android forum I quickly got sick about...
  • Feeling at home here
    Not much to say this time. I'm depressed. Like almost always. Trying to...
  • I'll start, rate mine 1-10
    It's a very mixed bag, some rock, some rap, some video game music, a...

More entries from Zetta_x

Share this entry

General chit-chat
Help Users
  • BakerMan @ BakerMan:
    more of a platinum guy myself personally
    +1
  • BakerMan @ BakerMan:
    guys i just checked to see what's in the fortnite item shop today and saw that metallica skins, atla skins and jjk skins are in the item shop at the same time rn, shit's not real 💀
    +1
  • PandaPandel @ PandaPandel:
    im playing fortnite rn and just got rsn over by a car
    +1
  • Xdqwerty @ Xdqwerty:
    @PandaPandel, irl or in the game?
  • Xdqwerty @ Xdqwerty:
    Btw it seems like the user dtapple disabled others posting on their profile, either they are going through something or they blocked me. Better leave them alone ig
  • Veho @ Veho:
    I sat on my ball and I think I crushed it

    :sad:
  • Xdqwerty @ Xdqwerty:
    @Veho, atleast you still have the other one
  • Veho @ Veho:
    Yeah that's why we have two balls. Redundancy.
    +2
  • Veho @ Veho:
    The squished one still hurts like a motherfucker tho.
  • 4d1xlaan @ 4d1xlaan:
    why did you do that
    +1
  • Xdqwerty @ Xdqwerty:
    @4d1xlaan, he just wanted to sit down
  • T @ Texasauras:
    admonish
  • Xdqwerty @ Xdqwerty:
    @AncientBoi, fixed it?
    +1
  • Veho @ Veho:
    As in, kiss and make better?
    +1
  • Xdqwerty @ Xdqwerty:
    Oh wait wrong edit
    +1
  • Xdqwerty @ Xdqwerty:
    That edit was made by ancient and i forgot to change the name
  • AncientBoi @ AncientBoi:
    Yea right. :tpi::rofl2::tpi:
    +1
  • AncientBoi @ AncientBoi:
    oops, PSP just went blank [black screen]
  • AncientBoi @ AncientBoi:
    Me thinks I forgot to charge it again :sad:
    AncientBoi @ AncientBoi: Me thinks I forgot to charge it again :sad: