Censorship

[quote name='Bob Evil' post='1182703' date='Jun 1 2008, 12:15 PM']having to deal with it

You two are clueless ... seriously ... wait until you have kids, then come back and talk to me ... You know nothing about the subject until you are having to deal with it directly ... simple as that ... no experience = no valid opinion ...[/quote]
That is an exercise in futility, like yourself I am also a victim of this group think. Just because I think it's wrong doesn't mean I'm unaffected by it, it just means I'll try to fight against it.

[quote name='RyukeDragon' post='1182694' date='Jun 1 2008, 05:09 PM'][quote name='spectral' post='1182678' date='Jun 1 2008, 11:59 AM']Restriction and censorship aren't the same thing though. It was your parents job to keep you away from porn and scary movies as a child not the companies that make them. The big thing with censorship is that it is other people choosing what another adult can or cant see and that is wrong. Why should their opinion be more valid than mine? If something contains content that is worthy of censorship then a child has no place watching/playing it anyway, with or without the cuts.[/quote]
So basically you're promoting a ban of books, movies, and games that contain any objectionable content at all? You're saying that no child should be taken to an art museum and see a replica of David? No child should see "Birth of Venus", regardless of any artistic merit? How about "God Creates Adam", by Michelangelo?


[quote name='Endogene' post='1182683' date='Jun 1 2008, 12:05 PM']i guess as long as video games are seem as something reserved for kids by the general opinion censorship won't stop
I hate the general opinion...[/quote]
Except that censorship spans almost all popular genres of media. TV, Movies, Music, Games.
[/quote]

No that isn't what I said at all. I'm saying if for example a song needs the lyrics changing before its suitable for a child then they shouldn't be listening to that song in the first place. Not that it should be banned they should just not be allowed acccess to it. As for your comments on art, again it should be available and down to the parent of a child to decide if it is suitable or not for them to see, it shouldn't be decided for them my a government or other organisation.

There's censorship and then there's quality control.

I see shows that go out of their way to belabor that it might have questionable content, and then you realize, hey, its 10 oclock, any parent that actually cared has put their little ones to bed already. And really, if you monitor your tv like you have a brain, the little ones are only watching shows that don't need worrying over. Dora the Explora doesn't swear by the way.

I told my son I had no intention of letting him see Rambo 4. Frankly the film was hard on my senses, and I'm an old man that has seen a lot of violence in my time. I didn't think my son needed to see that quite yet. It's odd though that we have next to no concern for graphic violence, but we go over board fussing about sex.

I get annoyed when the swearing is knee deep in movies. But no, I don't have a problem with swearing, I just think it soils the film when it over done.

The same with sex. I think there is a time and a place for sex scenes. In the case of some films, I find it a bit to shallow and a bit too tied to shallow marketing. It's not that I have problems watching people have sex, I just prefer some films didn't use it as a ploy to sell tickets.

I've brought up the subject of swearing and sex with my son who is nearing 14 and will be in high school next year.
I've told him he can swear like a trooper in front of me, but if his mother objects and he doesn't listen to her he deals with me.
I've also told him his granny will NOT tolerate it at all. And he's aware in granny's home it's granny's rules.

I'm not sure my son is fuuuully versed in sex at his age level, but I also get the impression he's just not interested in talking about it too. He's at least aware I can bring it up and talk about it. He knows dad isn't squeemish about talking about straight blunt sex. And he's "been out with the guys" that being me and friends, and we crack all the usual jokes and that means adult content humour, and it's not like he can't draw the conclusions.

But I think we take PC paranoia a bit far. Under the age of 5, I highly doubt a child even knows what the words mean. Under the age of 5, I highly doubt a child really would know sex for what it was if they caught mom and dad actually doing it.
Between 5 and 10 it's not easy to say. Most kids tend to believe what they are told until they are about 12 when they start "understanding" a lot more.

Often its OUR reactions that teach them everything.
If you have trouble shutting off the swearing, your kids will be swearing in no time.
If you have troubles with sex, chances are they won't learn anything useful before they end up learning by trial and error.

Censoring is not the answer, explaining is the answer.

I think censorship is something that should be in place... My sister has kids and her 7 year old son has learned about sex from his father, and he has seen pornography since he was born and he knows all about sex... He also learned the word fuck from his father too, and he has tried to get the neighbour girl at my sisters apartments to have sex with him... My sister can't do much because she doesn't have custody of her son right now. When you have kids and you hear that their innocence is taken away, you will understand.

It's considered abuse to wash a child's mouth out with soap, but I really think that if a child is going to say fuck when they know it's wrong, then I don't see anything wrong with putting a bar of soap in their mouth for a few seconds.

I can see how people are becoming more and more accepting of uncensored media... People want children to learn bad things so that they will buy into as they grow older.

Look at the child pregnancy rate, little girls the age of 12 are getting pregnant... How can anyone view this as being right? It's because of all the crap on TV and parents are too busy working to watch their kids and make sure they aren't off having sex with the neighbour boy/girl.

I know when I was 12 - 15, I didn't even know what sex was... I didn't know what a cock was or what it was used for. Now kids at the age of 8 know what sex is and they are experimenting with it.

This world is sad...

EDIT:

I know a lot of people are going to say that parents aren't doing their job, etc... But when you have children and you turn your back for a few minutes to do something and then come into the room and it's 1 pm in the middle of the afternoon and the kids have been flipping through the channels and find comedy central and they are talking about sex and all sorts of things, you can't control that... A lot of parents can use devices that will block channels with anything above TV-PG, but you can't do that if you don't have the device to do it... Plus a lot of shows that are for adults, but have "TV-PG" rating on them still have content that I wouldn't want my children to see. My parents let me watch pulp fiction when I was 13, but they understood that I wasn't going to go off and have sex, etc... I think explaining things to kids is vital, but when you have a split home and one parent is saying one thing another parent is saying something else, it's difficult to control what the child is being subjected to, and you can explain that explicit things are bad, but some kids don't want to listen to the parent that doesn't let them watch boobies on TV.

I agree Joujoudoll, parents can't be everywhere.

I think the problem is we have too few parents wanting to BE anywhere at all.

Sex ed isn't a school subject, it's a parental responsibility. I don't want my child being taught safe sex or any sex. That's MY job.

Now the issue gets tricky in that some parents are of course influenced by their own lives and choices and values.

I can't solve the single divorced parent problem as it likely has no solution. And I have seen divorced parents do some incredible shitty stuff to the kids when they should be limiting their hostility to each other. Then again, maybe the divorce happens because one or both parent(s) sucked as a parent in the first place.

The media is not our friend though. I've seen some fairly creative violations in my day. Girls on fashion shows walking around defacto topless behind some idiotic justification for clothing. It's not considered "sex" and the show comes with no warning, and little boys get to see tits on the news.

As for the swearing thing, I grew up in an era where soap was a safe "option". But I also know a smart and or clever parent can get across the message of "no" quite easily in a large array of non physical methods.
My son's last infraction got him sitting in front of several sheets of lined paper where he got to write several sentences saying various forms of sorry to his mother. And he was told his electronics wouldn't be returning till he finished the lines.
He didn't enjoy it, and he got the message.
He could have been told he was washing every car that drove in for a free car wash during a full weekend.
He might have been told he was going to write out verbatim several pages of a dictionary or encyclopedia.

Being a "good" parent means teaching their child "no" and not having any risk from the PC brigade in the process.
And as long as your kid fears the punishment, your job is done.

But again, the media is not your friend.
If you have little ones, the tv is either on and monitored, or it is off and not possible to turn on.
The media out there is really that bad, that you need to go that far.

As for teenage pregnancies, the moment a girl menstruates, the light is on, and they know something has changed. The first time a boy understands his balls have something interesting in them, it's time for some clear frank talk.
Just because the law says they can't doesn't mean their bodies can't.
And I remember my teens being a time of massive confusion.
Don't expect a teen to listen. You need to be 1 step ahead of them, or you get to be an under aged grand parent.

Losing one's innocence is not nearly as bad as losing one's youth to an unplanned preventable disaster.

The issue with my sister is she is disabled... She has to do things around her house herself and while she is doing things, she can't keep an eye on her kids, but she can listen to what they are doing. I feel bad for my sister because she tries so hard to get the message across to her oldest son who doesn't live with her, and when he goes home, it's like everything she has said has been washed away.

He is teaching her other son bad things, and he has even gotten to the extent of molesting his own brother... It's very disturbing when a child is acting out something that they don't even know what it is.

My nephew was a great kid until her ex lied about her in court and used her disability against her to get her son taken away from her... Now he is a smart ass and he treats people like shit and is molesting his own brother and other kids in my sisters apartment complex.

All the things you said a parent could do to discipline their child are things that older kids could do, but my nephew is only 7, and he is just starting to learn how to read... My sister will also get in trouble from her ex if she disciplines her son and her son doesn't like it, then next thing she knows her ex will keep her son away from her for 2 months and won't let her see him. Even though the court order says she gets a certain allotted time with her son, her ex has family in the judicial system and they have made it impossible for her to voice out her frustrations about her limited time with her son. So, she walks on egg shells to try to make her ex happy so that she can see her son as much as possible.

It's up to the parents to monitor what their children watch, not the government to bar adults from seeing stuff just because some people are too irresponsible to bring up their kids.

As for the teenage pregnancy rate, that's caused by the West (and America in particular) having a very prudish attitude towards sex and idiots taking their kids out of sex education or using bible-basher 'abstinence only' education rife with lies. Look at Sweden where they're much more open about sex and nudity and have an incredibly low teenage pregnancy rate. You don't see them going into a seizure because there was a side-boobie on public TV.

Kids should be learning about sex pretty early on, without drama and from teachers and responsible parents. But because parents are terrified of educating them, and idiots want to prosecute teachers for answering student's questions in sex-ed class, sex becomes something seen as seedy, dirty and mysterious and kids get a distorted view on what sex is from the wrong sources - advertisers trying to sell them stuff, misogynist assholes in the playground, etc.

The answer is more education, not less and sex discussed freely in all forms of media, not tucked away in violent adult programmes which are relegated to late night or R certificates. But try telling that to the morons who have a panic attack about their child actually learning something and take them out of school so they can teach them that babies come from the stork, dinosaurs lived alongside people, the force which holds molecules together is Jesus, the earth is 6000 years old and global warming is caused by homosexuality, keeping their loved ones safe from the dangers of knowledge - carnal or otherwise.

[quote name='Joujoudoll' post='1186238' date='Jun 3 2008, 04:25 AM']I think censorship is something that should be in place... My sister has kids and her 7 year old son has learned about sex from his father, and he has seen pornography since he was born and he knows all about sex... He also learned the word fuck from his father too, and he has tried to get the neighbour girl at my sisters apartments to have sex with him... My sister can't do much because she doesn't have custody of her son right now. When you have kids and you hear that their innocence is taken away, you will understand.[/quote]
I don't believe that innocence is a good thing. The Dodo was for all intents "innocent". Innocence means being largely ignorant of the world around you.

[quote name='Joujoudoll' post='1186238' date='Jun 3 2008, 04:25 AM']I can see how people are becoming more and more accepting of uncensored media... People want children to learn bad things so that they will buy into as they grow older.[/quote]Bad things? Furthering the human race is bad? Pleasure is bad? Violence is bad, sure, but nudity and sex isn't.


[quote name='Joujoudoll' post='1186238' date='Jun 3 2008, 04:25 AM']Look at the child pregnancy rate, little girls the age of 12 are getting pregnant... How can anyone view this as being right? It's because of all the crap on TV and parents are too busy working to watch their kids and make sure they aren't off having sex with the neighbour boy/girl.[/quote]
There are many factors for child pregnancy, I believe poor parent-child communication on the subject to be at fault more than images and sound on a screen. Also: In the middle ages people got married much earlier in life than we do.

[quote name='Joujoudoll' post='1186238' date='Jun 3 2008, 04:25 AM']I know a lot of people are going to say that parents aren't doing their job, etc... But when you have children and you turn your back for a few minutes to do something and then come into the room and it's 1 pm in the middle of the afternoon and the kids have been flipping through the channels and find comedy central and they are talking about sex and all sorts of things, you can't control that... A lot of parents can use devices that will block channels with anything above TV-PG, but you can't do that if you don't have the device to do it... Plus a lot of shows that are for adults, but have "TV-PG" rating on them still have content that I wouldn't want my children to see. My parents let me watch pulp fiction when I was 13, but they understood that I wasn't going to go off and have sex, etc... I think explaining things to kids is vital, but when you have a split home and one parent is saying one thing another parent is saying something else, it's difficult to control what the child is being subjected to, and you can explain that explicit things are bad, but some kids don't want to listen to the parent that doesn't let them watch boobies on TV.[/quote]
If your TV set was made in the last 7 years and you live in the US, it's required to have that device. OMFG mammary glands, something all children should have sucked on when they were young, can't let them see them now, no sir, that would be a crime.