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[POLL] U.S. Presidential Election 2016

Whom will/would you vote for?

  • Laurence Kotlikoff (Independent)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Tom Hoefling (America's Party)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mike Maturen (American Solidarity Party)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    659
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Lacius

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All politicians lies, regardless of gender, age, race, nationality, etc. the thing that a politician should worry the most is that when they are lying, they need to phrase it in a way people won't discover they are really lying, specially if you're a candidate to be a president, once you're one (a president, assuming you win) you can lie and say bullshit without fear however you want because you're now a president, but when you're just in the campaign process, you need to watch out for rumors, gossip, talk of mouth, etc. that anyone will do against you.

These two are very laid back in those aspects tho, they just spout whatever they want and they win loyal followers regardless, but when you take into account this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Hillary_Clinton_controversies

You're now not in the position to cause more controversy, that would damage your image and reputation, again, not that those two have a very good reputation anyway, but you just can't fuck up anymore specially during such heated moments, so when you're incapable of hiding lies or secrets, you cause controversy, said controversy can deal damage to your image, your image is what she relies to win or not the campaign, and also followers or people who don't want Trump.
First, most Hillary Clinton controversies are right-wing bullshit with little basis in reality. This is evidenced by the fact that the suicide of Vince Foster is even on the list, let alone many more ridiculous ones. Second, if we're going by an informal comparison of PolitiFact statements, Hillary Clinton doesn't lie much relative to other politicians. Get your facts straight.
 
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Demifiend

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First, most Hillary Clinton controversies are right-wing bullshit with little basis in reality. This is evidenced by the fact that the suicide of Vince Foster is even on the list, let alone many more ridiculous ones. Second, if we're going by an informal comparison of PolitiFact statements, Hillary Clinton doesn't lie much relative to other politicians. Get your facts straight.

The controversies are, as you say, bullshit, but when someone unconnected to politics tries to find info on any of the candidates, the first thing they may cross is the "popular info" which in this case, are controversies, people will spend more time trying to decipher the basis of the controversy rather than actual important info of said candidate. I say that is neither Trump's or Hillary's fault that the controversies for each candidate happened the way it was, but regardless, more people would only be interested in said candidate if something minimally interesting is related to him/her, if not, it would be boring, and as someone who's an outsider or oblivious to us politics, given the info i have, i can't just trust any charts someone says.

The link you gave me has Bachmann, Trump, Cruz, etc. among the highest offenders of lies or false statements, while Sanders, Clinton and Obama have very low false or mid-false statuses, does it add that the first bunch are republicans and the last one are democrats, does it also adds that Robert Mann (the author of this chart) is also a democrat, i can't just trust anything one side says over the other, i'm neither in Hillary nor Trump's position as i'm neither a Republican "rightist" or Democrat "leftist", but if you're gonna stay by the facts, then also admit the faults of both.

I can't just stay abide while something like this exists, that said president pulled over one thousand lies during all of his career, and the chart you gave me, ranks Obama even more honest than Hillary, who do i trust in this?, you tell me.

P.D: All of what i said is by the stance of someone who's not in the US, never knew an irl person from it, nor it does not know the total practices of this country, so if you detect any information that supposedly, is wrong, then tell me, Internet is a fountain of lies and truths, but i know that politics consists mostly of lies, so all i said is based on the info i found, not in actual experiences nor stances from any people who resides in there.
 

Lacius

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The controversies are, as you say, bullshit, but when someone unconnected to politics tries to find info on any of the candidates, the first thing they may cross is the "popular info" which in this case, are controversies, people will spend more time trying to decipher the basis of the controversy rather than actual important info of said candidate. I say that is neither Trump's or Hillary's fault that the controversies for each candidate happened the way it was, but regardless, more people would only be interested in said candidate if something minimally interesting is related to him/her, if not, it would be boring, and as someone who's an outsider or oblivious to us politics, given the info i have, i can't just trust any charts someone says.
The facts speak for themselves.

The link you gave me has Bachmann, Trump, Cruz, etc. among the highest offenders of lies or false statements, while Sanders, Clinton and Obama have very low false or mid-false statuses, does it add that the first bunch are republicans and the last one are democrats, does it also adds that Robert Mann (the author of this chart) is also a democrat, i can't just trust anything one side says over the other, i'm neither in Hillary nor Trump's position as i'm neither a Republican "rightist" or Democrat "leftist", but if you're gonna stay by the facts, then also admit the faults of both.
His political affiliation is irrelevant to the unbiased methodology he used to compile the chart. To argue that a fact cannot be trusted because it makes one side look good and the other side look bad is to ignore perfectly good facts. You don't get to cherry-pick facts in favor of some idealistic ideological balance while simultaneously saying you care about the facts. Whether or not something feels ideologically balanced has no bearing on whether or not that thing is true.

I can't just stay abide while something like this exists, that said president pulled over one thousand lies during all of his career, and the chart you gave me, ranks Obama even more honest than Hillary, who do i trust in this?, you tell me.
When a source like this cites garbage like a failure to close Guantanamo, something Obama wants to do but cannot because the Republicans are blocking him, or alleged ties to Wall Street that don't exist, as lies, then the source is bullshit. Hell, the source says Obama lied when he said he believed in public education just because he sent his kids to private schools, which is irrelevant to whether or not he believes in public education. It's absolute garbage. If you can't tell the difference between BS political spin and facts, then it's going to be pretty difficult for me to use reason to argue whom you should and shouldn't trust. In other words, I'm not going to bother to help you if you can't bother to put on your thinking cap and help yourself.
 
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Demifiend

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The facts speak for themselves.


His political affiliation is irrelevant to the unbiased methodology he used to compile the chart. To argue that a fact cannot be trusted because it makes one side look good and the other side look bad is to ignore perfectly good facts. You don't get to cherry-pick facts in favor of some idealistic ideological balance while simultaneously saying you care about the facts. Whether or not something feels ideologically balanced has no bearing on whether or not that thing is true.


When a source like this cites garbage like a failure to close Guantanamo, something Obama wants to do but cannot because the Republicans are blocking him, or alleged ties to Wall Street that don't exist, as lies, then the source is bullshit. Hell, the source says Obama lied when he said he believed in public education just because he sent his kids to private schools, which is irrelevant to whether or not he believes in public education. It's absolute garbage. If you can't tell the difference between BS political spin and facts, then it's going to be pretty difficult for me to use reason to argue whom you should and shouldn't trust. In other words, I'm not going to bother to help you if you can't bother to put on your thinking cap and help yourself.

Read the PD again, all the info i got was on the Internet, i'm foreigner to these kind of threads, how do you want me to know what's real or not when the only sources of information i have regarding that is the Internet, my stance was based on what i got on the most basic (or the first answer google gives me) pages i found, if you could cite sources of true political facts, not only politifacts, but others that gives an in-depth basic analysis, then i have what to work onto, I cannot nor bother to put the "thinking cap" because what i could say may be false or true.

I'm not looking to fight nor start an argument, i just want to know where i could find trusted information, and Google nor Yahoo aren't exactly helping me there, so in order to have a better grasp of the situation, i would like you to put the best sources you could give me, so i can actually say something truthful.
 

Viri

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ys1pNLB.jpg
 
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Engert

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Out of curiosity, where did that come from?

Excuse me? I'm not sure I understand your question.
Also, as a peace-loving man I have another question.
Should public executions become the norm again?
And a follow up question to that. How do we define "public"? When 1 person is present? 2? 20? 50?
I mean how do I know when I'm in public?
 

TotalInsanity4

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Excuse me? I'm not sure I understand your question.
Also, as a peace-loving man I have another question.
Should public executions become the norm again?
And a follow up question to that. How do we define "public"? When 1 person is present? 2? 20? 50?
I mean how do I know when I'm in public?
I mean, I don't mind discussing stuff like that, I'm just trying to figure out what prompted it
 

Lacius

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Why can't people be aborted .... say .... 20 years after they're born?

How do we define abortion?
An abortion refers to the intentional termination of a pregnancy. So, aborting an embryo or fetus, by definition, is when you terminate a fetus or embryo before birth.

Excuse me? I'm not sure I understand your question.
Also, as a peace-loving man I have another question.
Should public executions become the norm again?
And a follow up question to that. How do we define "public"? When 1 person is present? 2? 20? 50?
I mean how do I know when I'm in public?
There shouldn't be any executions.

using politifact as your only source
I'm not arguing that PolitiFact is perfect. In fact, I have quite a few problems with PolitiFact. They've ironically made some absolute bullshit rulings in an obvious effort to seem ideologically balanced. However, most of what's on the right of your little screen grab doesn't contradict what's on the left. So, for both of these reasons, I'm not sure what your point is.
 
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RevPokemon

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I'm not arguing that PolitiFact is perfect. In fact, I have quite a few problems with PolitiFact. They've ironically made some absolute bullshit rulings in an obvious effort to seem ideologically balanced.
Really? PolitiFact's truly biggest issue is how they decide what constitutes each level in their ranking. But all in all it is pretty accurate and does much better then say FAIR or most fact checking departments of news outlets.
 
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Lacius

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Really? PolitiFact's truly biggest issue is how they decide what constitutes each level in their ranking. But all in all it is pretty accurate and does much better then say FAIR or most fact checking departments of news outlets.
Its ratings are sometimes quite terrible, sometimes rating blatantly true things as half-true or mostly-false. They've also rated blatantly false statements as half-true. These aren't including the ratings that have changed over the years when confronted with the actual evidence.

Edit: Actually, I was mistaken with my last sentence. My example of a false thing being rated half-true was once rated mostly true.
 
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Engert

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Can someone prove to me that global warming is caused by humans?
Also once we establish that, can someone put the timescale into perspective please?
What I'd like to know is that if we have 20 more years left, I'm going to make some terrible but fun choices.
Thanks.
 

grossaffe

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Can someone prove to me that global warming is caused by humans?
Also once we establish that, can someone put the timescale into perspective please?
What I'd like to know is that if we have 20 more years left, I'm going to make some terrible but fun choices.
Thanks.
perhaps this would be a good start:
 

TotalInsanity4

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Engert

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After the Cold War, the global goal is now to create one people where everybody is happy and they get along and everyone is gender neutral.
How can we accomplish this when people hate their neighbors never mind immigrants coming from third world countries?
 
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