Hardware N3DS NAND backup possible, I hope.

[Avalynn]

Bad news so. Maybe the jrunner isnt the best choice for make the nand backups.

I'm not sure exactly what that program does (never used it) but yeah win32diskimager is the best way to go if on windows, DD if on linux should do the trick nicely, and I think you can get away with that for Mac as well since it's a Unix command.

If that program is for specific NAND readers then I don't think it is going to work for this particular setup since we aren't reading a NAND exactly, it's an eMMC, basically a NAND wrapped up with a controller. This is a pretty simple but good explanation of it from EETimes.

Interesting:
So this JRunner looks like it was built for the Xbox 360 for it's NAND packages.

 

[zeruel85]

JRunner is able to manage some 360 eMMCs, but I don't know if it can correctly recognize the 3DS ones.

win32diskimager is definitively the best choice.

 

[Avalynn]

JRunner is able to manage some 360 eMMCs, but I don't know if it can correctly recognize the 3DS ones.

win32diskimager is definitively the best choice.

Wait I thought the Xbox 360 used NAND Flash memory like a Hynix HY27US08281A?

There is a difference between a NAND Flash reader and an SD/eMMC reader So for the N3DS/3DS/XL we are reading an eMMC, so we can use a standard SD/eMMC Reader but not all readers are created equally so if one doesn't work, try another, and then check your wiring lol.

 

[zeruel85]

Some Xbox 360s have an eMMC NAND onboard (Corona V4 and V6, also Corona V2 but in that case you have a typical TSOP NAND but it communicates with Southbridge using a Phison 7000, that is in fact an eMMC controller). So you can use an SD reader like with the 3DS, with an adding wire that is the Vdd (console in standby mode to dump/flash the NAND, with IDLE mode enabled by putting to ground the oscillator).

 

[Avalynn]

Some Xbox 360s have an eMMC NAND onboard (Corona V4 and V6, also Corona V2 but in that case you have a typical TSOP NAND but it communicates with Southbridge using a Phison 7000, that is in fact an eMMC controller). So you can use an SD reader like with the 3DS, with an adding wire that is the Vdd (console in standby mode to dump/flash the NAND, with IDLE mode enabled by putting to ground the oscillator).

Ah that is interesting for the xbox 360, thank you, I didn't work much on them ever lol. I thought people were taking directly to the NAND flash and reading/writting that way. I wonder why they didn't just go for a combined package if they were going to supply a controller to do about the same thing.

I know for the 3DS when the CMD is brought to GND it causes a halt on the bootup process and throws the error. Then you can supply your own CLK and CMD to read and write but using the 3DS as a way to power the eMMC. If you ground the CLK it actually doesn't throw an error it never gets past POST. The more you know!

 

[zeruel85]

Well, not even the classic NANDs (such as the Hynix you mentioned before) are read/written using a 'classic NAND reader'. In fact you use the SPI bus of the Southbridge, so you communicate with MOSI, MISO, CLK and CS to access the NAND, without using I/O 0/7 and the control points (CLE, ALE, WE, WP, R/B, RE, CE).

 

[Avalynn]

Well, not even the classic NANDs (such as the Hynix you mentioned before) are read/written using a 'classic NAND reader'. In fact you use the SPI bus of the Southbridge, so you communicate with MOSI, MISO, CLK and CS to access the NAND, without using I/O 0/7 and the control points (CLE, ALE, WE, WP, R/B, RE, CE).

Oh okay thank you. I think those pins are still used on NAND Flash to read and write to it, just the south bridge handles it and outputs to a common protocol like SPI that uses less pins. So you could still talk to it that way lol but then I guess you'd have to take the NAND out or not power the system up.

I think in a DSP or timing critical system with enough free pins you could write and read to them directly without the use of a controller. But I digress and you are correct that there controllers for the NAND we can talk to with ease. I just wanted to point out for the 3DS that it's not really a pure NAND we are talking to but an eMMC (A type of managed NAND). It gripes me a little that we call it a NAND mod lol.

 

[Myria]

I just bought an American New 3DS XL and would like to dump its flash ROM before its first bootup. What is the procedure for doing this mod? I can see that I need to solder wires to the board and to an SD card adapter, but beyond this, I don't get it.

Do I need to get to the backside of the board in order to do this? Removing a 3DS board is a huge nightmare for me because of all the little wires involved that are too small for my big hands.

As for a disk imager, I could always write my own; I can just open \\.\GLOBALROOT\Device\Harddisk3 or whatever and read from it or write to it.

 

[piratesephiroth]

I just bought an American New 3DS XL and would like to dump its flash ROM before its first bootup. What is the procedure for doing this mod? I can see that I need to solder wires to the board and to an SD card adapter, but beyond this, I don't get it.

Do I need to get to the backside of the board in order to do this? Removing a 3DS board is a huge nightmare for me because of all the little wires involved that are too small for my big hands.

As for a disk imager, I could always write my own; I can just open \\.\GLOBALROOT\Device\Harddisk3 or whatever and read from it or write to it.

Yeah, the same procedure used on the old models.

http://3dbrew.org/wiki/Hardware#New_3DS

EDIT: The pinout is only correct for the New 3DS XL.

 

[gamesquest1]

Yeah, the same procedure used on the old models.

http://3dbrew.org/wiki/Hardware#New_3DS

that pinout is wrong....should be removed tbh

 

[piratesephiroth]

that pinout is wrong....should be removed tbh

WHOA

Is there a proper pinout pic available?

 

[gamesquest1]

WHOA

Is there a proper pinout pic available?

nope, still needs the clk point found, all the rest are correct, 2DS/3DS/3DSXL/N3DSXL, its just the N3DS standard that is still doesnt have a proper pinout

oh actually the guy you quoted did say N3DS XL, so he is good to go, the XL is confirmed correct

 

[Fabbbrrr]

I tried this with my 2ds first without success... I thought I broke my console but at the end managed to made it boot again... Probably the quality of the wires were bad, or too long... Idk. The thing was that when I pressed the power button, the blue light turned on for a few seconds and then the console powered off doing a noise on the speaker.

I won't do it on my 3ds until I get all the correct wires, connectors and a good guide ...

 

[Avalynn]

I tried this with my 2ds first without success... I thought I broke my console but at the end managed to made it boot again... Probably the quality of the wires were bad, or too long... Idk. The thing was that when I pressed the power button, the blue light turned on for a few seconds and then the console powered off doing a noise on the speaker.

I won't do it on my 3ds until I get all the correct wires, connectors and a good guide ...

It can be a bit tricky if this is your first time working on something like this, and even scary when something goes wrong Just remember short wires, practicing on scrap boards helps, and patience. Also the card reader you are using can make a large difference. When reassembling there are certain cables that must go back in, like the LCD back-light and a couple other ribbon cables.

 

[gamesquest1]

I tried this with my 2ds first without success... I thought I broke my console but at the end managed to made it boot again... Probably the quality of the wires were bad, or too long... Idk. The thing was that when I pressed the power button, the blue light turned on for a few seconds and then the console powered off doing a noise on the speaker.

I won't do it on my 3ds until I get all the correct wires, connectors and a good guide ...

Trust me the 2ds is the wrong console to start on, it requires pretty exact wires and card reader etc, best console to start with is the 3ds XL, then the standard 3ds or 2ds for different reasons, the 2ds requires extra short wiring and only seems to work on certain card readers, whereas the original 3ds can be tricky for anyone with only basic soldering abilities as the clk point is very small and on the back of the board.......basically unless you are confident with soldering or know you have a compatible card reader I wouldn't suggest doing the NAND mod on the original 3ds or the 2ds....better to send it to someone who has everything they need and has experience doing them so they get it set up exactly right....tbh I wouldn't suggest newbies even doing the XL, seen quite a few consoles that have been messed up due to inexperienced people thinking it's "easy"......it's easy if you have done that kind of mod before

 

[Fabbbrrr]

Thank you, I've done mods to vgas, motherboard, hdds and things like that. I have 'some' soldering experience and I understand the risk...

Could you give a list of the exact type of wire (English name please ), length, connector name, reader model... I'd really appreciate that!

Thanks

 

[Avalynn]

Thank you, I've done mods to vgas, motherboard, hdds and things like that. I have 'some' soldering experience and I understand the risk...

Could you give a list of the exact type of wire (English name please ), length, connector name, reader model... I'd really appreciate that!

Thanks

Well the two readers I use are on the first post, but here you go a Transcend TS-RDP5K card reader and a TekRepublic TUC-300 Reader, I know there are others out there that work even my laptop one works. If anyone could chime in and report that would be great. Some really cheap ones though do not work at all

The wire I am using is often called kynar wire but that is really just the insulation type, this has worked for me too 30AWG 8-Wire colored Wrapping Cable but most commonly know as wire wrap so search around for that. I try to keep all of them the same length so their resistances are roughly the same, about 4 inches max to the out going connector and then use thicker cable usually only 2 or 3 inches from the connector to the SD card reader.

This type of soldering isn't super fine pitch but just be careful out there use flux or if you solder has it you should be fine but remember to clean it up and try for a small soldering tip.

 

[Fabbbrrr]

Amazing!

Thanks mate, I'll try to get those things before try again or try it on my n3ds!

 

[Ritchie555]

Avalynn, I'm very interested in your work on the N3DS nand dump. Ive read your posts and it seems encouraging. I hard modded my O3DS but not my XL or N3DS.

From your posts, you were able to dump your N3DS nand, update to 9.5 and then write back your nand to a saved version using the connection points in the pic on page 1?

Just wanted to checkin with you before I mod my N3DS. No need to mod my XL as its GateWay supported for now.

 

[Avalynn]

Yes, I have actually done a couple N3DS now with both updating and downgrading.