Iwata: Wii U/3DS will cater to core gamers first, mass market second

[chyyran]

The term "core gamer" is so ambiguous, half the thread was about defining it.
There is no such thing as a "core gamer" or a "hard-core gamer" or "casual gaming". Those are terms so ambiguous, it's confusing.
Seriously, what is the difference between "hard-core" and "casual" gaming? Everyone seems to have a different definition for those terms.

Here's something most people can agree on

Shovelware and Not Shovelware

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[Foxi4]

The term "core gamer" is so ambiguous, half the thread was about defining it.

There is no such thing as a "core gamer" or a "hard-core gamer" or "casual gaming". Those are terms so ambiguous, it's confusing.


Seriously, what is the difference between "hard-core" and "casual" gaming? Everyone seems to have a different definition for those terms

That's like saying there's no difference between FPS, TPS and SHUMP's because in all those you shoot at thing.

 

[KingVamp]

3D IS a gimmick. There was a report that said that 80% of the 3DS owners didn't like 3D. Even Nintendo started to promote in their TV Spot and ads that you can turn the 3D off.

Do you know...that 72% of statistics are made up on the spot?

So yeah, that's my categorization, I hope it was elaborate enough to explain my previous statement.

You are just confusing things even more...

 

[Deleted_171835]

What Ninty has to do is get better 3rd party support. Most games in the 3DS library at the moment, that aren't 1st party are shovelware. There are quite a few exceptions (Tales, RE, etc..) but shovelware outweighs non-shovelware pretty badly. They have to stop letting random devs in for a quick buck develop for their systems.

Yeah, that's never going to happen. On any platform. You can't restrict devs from your platform just because you consider their games shovelware.

 

[chyyran]

The term "core gamer" is so ambiguous, half the thread was about defining it.

There is no such thing as a "core gamer" or a "hard-core gamer" or "casual gaming". Those are terms so ambiguous, it's confusing.


Seriously, what is the difference between "hard-core" and "casual" gaming? Everyone seems to have a different definition for those terms

That's like saying there's no difference between FPS, TPS and SHUMP's because in all those you shoot at thing.

FPS, TPS and SHUMPs are easily defined

A FPS is a shooter in which you're in a first person perspective

A TPS is a shooter in a third person perspective

A SHUMP is a shooter, often in a third person perspective where the aim is to basically shoot everything you see, often a mass of enemies.

Most people can all agree on this.

The terms "hard-core" and "causual" are much harder to define.

Everyone has a different opinion of what it means, therefore making the terms relatively useless

 

[gamefan5]

Then a core title is Call of Duty, and EA Sports. The very newest game in the respective series, to be more specific.
I think your notions of the 'average gamer' are a tad idealized.

Call of Duty used to be a core title before it established an obnoxious cult around it, but even now it shows glimpses of splendor here and there. Sports games on the otherhand are typically targeted at sports fans - they're not exactly core.

Perhaps my idea is a bit idealized, but to me, the difference between core and non-core is the difference between "Twillight" and "Lord of the Rings" or "Discworld".

A core title needs to have this everlasting appeal, a quality that is hard to describe in words. Casual is a completely different thing - those types of games are supposed to draw the attention of gamers and people who are not particularily interested in gaming. They're supposed to be played in short sittings and give quick "injections of fun", alternatively they're supposed to be played at parties by groups of people. The definitive feature of those games is simply "Grab and Play" - they need to be painfuly obvious about how a typical non-gamer is supposed to approach them, alternatively, they need to teach the gamer how to play them in the course of those short sittings, and not by means of a tutorial but by means of clever design.

So yeah, that's my categorization, I hope it was elaborate enough to explain my previous statement.

Well, I like your statement about casual gaming because that's exactly what it stands for. Although, core titles can be defined in many different ways. For me a core title needs to lure gamers, while staying true to it's formula (FPS, Platformers, etc). Not only that, it needs something that keeps you coming back for more... I'm not sure how I can explain this clearly but that's my take.

 

[Eerpow]

I think that thanks to the main approach the Wii had, some of the main staples released lacked the depth of their GameCube counterparts. Not only that but games like F-Zero or even what could have been new IP's didn't get to see the light of the day thanks to Nintendo's approach.
Both Mario Kart and Smash Bros were toned down on the Wii in order to cater to a bigger market. What Nintendo now realizes is that they lose a lot of consumers by not providing a experience that satisfies both ends.

But I'm glad we're already seeing them taking steps in the right direction with the 3DS, I mean just look at how much of an improvement Mario Kart 7 is over the Wii and DS titles in terms of gameplay.

Now I hope that they steer Mario into the right direction again and that they get around making the games the Wii didn't get to see.

 

[Foxi4]

FPS, TPS and SHUMPs are easily defined

A FPS is a shooter in which you're in a first person perspective

A TPS is a shooter in a third person perspective

A SHUMP is a shooter, often in a third person perspective where the aim is to basically shoot everything you see, often a mass of enemies.

Most people can all agree on this.

The terms "hard-core" and "causual" are much harder to define.

Everyone has a different opinion of what it means, therefore making the terms relatively useless

Except nowadays they're no longer easily-defined as genres tend to blend. you get FPS'es with RPG elements on a daily basis, same with TPS'es. A boundry that is hard to define is still a boundry - for some people Fallout: New Vegas will be a typical shooter with a long storyline, for others it's going to be an epic role-playing adventure.

The definition is in the name - casual games are made for casual gaming. On the bus or on the tram for 5 to 10 minutes with little to no involvement of your brain. Everything else is either a core game or a game for a specific audience, it's really not that hard to define those two.

Hard-core on the otherhand is a stupid term - here we agree.

 

[chyyran]

What Ninty has to do is get better 3rd party support. Most games in the 3DS library at the moment, that aren't 1st party are shovelware. There are quite a few exceptions (Tales, RE, etc..) but shovelware outweighs non-shovelware pretty badly. They have to stop letting random devs in for a quick buck develop for their systems.

Yeah, that's never going to happen. On any platform. You can't restrict devs from your platform just because you consider their games shovelware.

At least, restrict them from releasing their shovelware. Get play testers to rate it before it goes out.

 

[Foxi4]

Well, I like your statement about casual gaming because that's exactly what it stands for. Although, core titles can be defined in many different ways. For me a core title needs to lure gamers, while staying true to it's formula (FPS, Platformers, etc). Not only that, it needs something that keeps you coming back for more... I'm not sure how I can explain this clearly but that's my take.

I agree to the point where it has to stay true to the formula, but to me a formula can always be improved upon in numerous ways, and its those improvements that make given titles memorable.

What Ninty has to do is get better 3rd party support. Most games in the 3DS library at the moment, that aren't 1st party are shovelware. There are quite a few exceptions (Tales, RE, etc..) but shovelware outweighs non-shovelware pretty badly. They have to stop letting random devs in for a quick buck develop for their systems.

Yeah, that's never going to happen. On any platform. You can't restrict devs from your platform just because you consider their games shovelware.

At least, restrict them from releasing their shovelware. Get play testers to rate it before it goes out.

Nobody forces any of you to buy shovelware. If you don't like it, ignore it.

 

[chyyran]

FPS, TPS and SHUMPs are easily defined

A FPS is a shooter in which you're in a first person perspective

A TPS is a shooter in a third person perspective

A SHUMP is a shooter, often in a third person perspective where the aim is to basically shoot everything you see, often a mass of enemies.

Most people can all agree on this.

The terms "hard-core" and "causual" are much harder to define.

Everyone has a different opinion of what it means, therefore making the terms relatively useless

Except nowadays they're no longer easily-defined as genres tend to blend. you get FPS'es with RPG elements on a daily basis, same with TPS'es. A boundry that is hard to define is still a boundry - for some people Fallout: New Vegas will be a typical shooter with a long storyline, for others it's going to be an epic role-playing adventure.

The definition is in the name - casual games are made for casual gaming. On the bus or on the tram for 5 to 10 minutes with little to no involvement of your brain. Everything else is either a core game or a game for a specific audience, it's really not that hard to define those two.

Hard-core on the otherhand is a stupid term - here we agree.

'Nuff said

Forgot about all the other great "casual" puzzle games out there..Prof. Layton..Ace Attorney..Even Tetris requires thinking

 

[RoMee]

Quoting destructoid again? That's a bad source. The entire article was conjecture and opinion on the part of the author, with only three words being an actual quote. It's possible, even probably that Crysis 3 is not coming to the Wii U due to time constraints, or issues with the launch period.

Not a fat chance

Rasmus Hoejengaard's words, not destructoid. Those words is all that is relevant

About the 5:20 mark
[yt]IDCDNlGhgdE#![/yt]


Fat chance does not mean "due to time constraints, or issues with the launch period".
It means that shit ain't gonna happen.

But that's off topic...

 

[Foxi4]

'Nuff said

Forgot about all the other great "casual" puzzle games out there..Prof. Layton..Ace Attorney..Even Tetris requires thinking

That's not what I meant when I said "involvement of the brain" lol, I do see how it might've sounded ambiguous though. Good call.

What I wanted to say was that casual games are "casual", it's not the game itself or the characters in it that become memorable, but rather the mechanics. Casual games have little to no story - you don't "think" about them when you stop playing, they don't really leave an imprint on you like an RPG would for example.

 

[mysticwaterfall]

I'd say Mario games are about as "core" as you can get. Excluding the "oh wow, Wii Sports!!!" and "I'm hardcore because all I play is what people tell me is cool" people, the real reason most people buy a system over another is because of the game selection. You buy a Nintendo system expecting a Mario, Zelda, Smash Brothers, et al knowing you can't get those games elsewhere. That has alwasys been Nintendo's core audience.

 

[Deleted_171835]

Fat chance does not mean "due to time constraints, or issues with the launch period".

Er, yeah it does.

Unless this is your ridiculous way of trying to say that the Wii U isn't as powerful as the PS3/360.

 

[Foxi4]

I'd say Mario games are about as "core" as you can get. Excluding the "oh wow, Wii Sports!!!" and "I'm hardcore because all I play is what people tell me is cool" people, the real reason most people buy a system over another is because of the game selection. You buy a Nintendo system expecting a Mario, Zelda, Smash Brothers, et al knowing you can't get those games elsewhere. That has alwasys been Nintendo's core audience.

This is what I tried to tackle earlier though - it's a core title for Nintendo's audience and little to nobody else unless it's expertly done.

The problem with iconic characters is that they carry a stigma of implied repetitiveness. A person who does not follow the development of for example Pokemon games will say "Black and White 2? Dude, I already played one Pokemon game - I played them all." which is not always the case, obviously.

A core title should appeal to a wider audience than just the fans of a given franchise or company, but I suppose it's a matter of personal opinion.

 

[chyyran]

'Nuff said

Forgot about all the other great "casual" puzzle games out there..Prof. Layton..Ace Attorney..Even Tetris requires thinking

That's not what I meant when I said "involvement of the brain" lol, I do see how it might've sounded ambiguous though. Good call.

What I wanted to say was that casual games are "casual", it's not the game itself or the characters in it that become memorable, but rather the mechanics. Casual games have little to no story - you don't "think" about them when you stop playing, they don't really leave an imprint on you like an RPG would for example.

Personally, I myself consider Professor Layton, or Pheonix Wright a "casual" game, contrary to your post, I do think about them, and they do leave an imprint on me long after completion.

Therefore, my definition of "casual" contradict your definition, which goes back to my original argument, the terms "hard-core" and "casual" have so many different meanings, and are so ambiguous, the terms are practically useless. Words are meant to convey your thoughts, but those terms fail to do so.

 

[Foxi4]

Fat chance does not mean "due to time constraints, or issues with the launch period".

Er, yeah it does.

Unless this is your ridiculous way of trying to say that the Wii U isn't as powerful as the PS3/360.

I think they're afraid of making it "gimmicky".

They're trying to make a simple shooter - point at things, press buttons and make them die. They're not interested in touchscreen functionality, 3DS functionality, exclusive content and so on and so forth - they want to release a game that will be virtually identical on all platforms and on the WiiU, it's "Fat Chance" that leaving the touchscreen untouched (see what I did there?) would fly.

Personally, I myself consider Professor Layton, or Pheonix Wright a "casual" game, contrary to your post, I do think about them, and they do leave an imprint on me long after completion.

Therefore, my definition of "casual" contradict your definition, which goes back to my original argument, the terms "hard-core" and "casual" have so many different meanings, and are so ambiguous, the terms are practically useless. Words are meant to convey your thoughts, but those terms fail to do so.

Layton games can be defined as casual because they're divided in bite-sized chunks - you're not forced to engage yourself in a long sitting. Phoenix Wright games are similar, however here it's a matter of game structure rather than a deliberate attempt at making the game casual.

 

[Deleted_171835]

Fat chance does not mean "due to time constraints, or issues with the launch period".

Er, yeah it does.

Unless this is your ridiculous way of trying to say that the Wii U isn't as powerful as the PS3/360.

I think they're afraid of making it "gimmicky".

They're trying to make a simple shooter - point at things, press buttons and make them die. They're not interested in touchscreen functionality, 3DS functionality, exclusive content and so on and so forth - they want to release a game that will be virtually identical on all platforms and on the WiiU, it's "Fat Chance" that leaving the touchscreen untouched (see what I did there?) would fly.

Honesly, that would be a pretty lame excuse. There's nothing restricting them from doing precisely that.

The Wii U controller has all the inputs of a regular controller. If they don't want to use the tablet screen, just put a goddamn Crytek logo there.

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[RoMee]

Fat chance does not mean "due to time constraints, or issues with the launch period".

Er, yeah it does.

Unless this is your ridiculous way of trying to say that the Wii U isn't as powerful as the PS3/360.

Noun 1. fat chance - little or no chance of success