Covid-19 vaccine

[tabzer]

our culture is founded on vaccination, it's one of the reasons America beat Britain. George Washington variolated his army (by force or brig time), and thus protected our patriots from multiple small pox outbreaks including one in Boston.

Yup, biological warfare is a founding principle of America. I'm aware.

 

[sith]

Worse case scenario, overestimating the vaccine is still better than the disinformation that got people using a dewormer for a virus.

Couldn't be a dumber statement, ivermectin is not "dewormer" its just approved for deworming use, its a 3 carbon protease inhibitor, same a pfisers pavloxid and mercks version too. Its as crazy as people taking the blood pessure mediction viagra for boners or drinking the car coolant dihyrogen monoxide.

 

[NoobletCheese]

Remember back in 2020 when the left were the antivaxxers who didn't trust the government?

 

[Marc_LFD]

I saw a man driving ALONE with a mask and it's a hot, sunny day so that surely can't be very good for his health.

Maybe he thinks he's saving lives by wearing a mask (maybe it was 2, 3, 4, or 5 masks, who knows).

There's just no common sense in that.

 

[AncientBoi]

I saw a man driving ALONE with a mask and it's a hot, sunny day so that surely can't be very good for his health.

Maybe he thinks he's saving lives by wearing a mask (maybe it was 2, 3, 4, or 5 masks, who knows).

There's just no common sense in that.

[puts mine on, and a jock strap] [and 1 on backwards] Now I'm ready to explore GBAtemp

 

[KingVamp]

Better than the people that purposely increase the chances of a virus spreading.

 

[supermist]

At least in the US, a good chunk of antivaxxers died from covid between 2021-2022 as 99% of covid deaths in the US that occurred in this time were unvaccinated deaths.

I mean, that increased our herd immunity percentages at least.

 

[seany1990]

Whats the point in bumping this thread?

Anti-vaxxers you lost... hard. Nothing can change that, I get that you are extremely humiliated but this is just making it worse

 

[Deleted member 559230]

Whats the point in bumping this thread?

Anti-vaxxers you lost... hard. Nothing can change that, I get that you are extremely humiliated but this is just making it worse

Anyone that decided to not get the covid vaccine is in their right to do so. It's illegal to force someone to take medicine they don't want. When compared to the seasonal flu not that many people died from covid.

 

[PagaN]

Poison for fools

 

[lolcatzuru]

Whats the point in bumping this thread?

Anti-vaxxers you lost... hard. Nothing can change that, I get that you are extremely humiliated but this is just making it worse

...how?

Post automatically merged: Aug 30, 2023

At least in the US, a good chunk of antivaxxers died from covid between 2021-2022 as 99% of covid deaths in the US that occurred in this time were unvaccinated deaths.

I mean, that increased our herd immunity percentages at least.

im still waiting! god damn winter of death taking its sweet old time.

 

[Foxi4]

I don’t know why this “debate” is still on-going nearly 4 years after the initial outbreak. I thought we would’ve reached a sensible middle ground at this point, but oh well. Here’s what I think. If you’re in any of the known high-risk groups (elderly, obese, suffering from respiratory system issues etc.) you should get vaccinated immediately. Statistics don’t lie - these groups die from COVID at much higher rates than anybody else. If you’re young and healthy, your risk is significantly lower, but it is advisable that you should vaccinate regardless because you don’t want to be a carrier unknowingly. There are almost no scenarios in which a vaccination is ill-advised, although a handful of people can’t take them at all (some immunodeficiencies have that effect, and a small segment of the population might be allergic to one of the ingredients), and that’s tough luck for them. With that being said, it’s your body and you’re entitled to do whatever you want. Maybe you have some concerns, real or imaginary, or you’re too lazy to get it done, or you don’t care. Fine. Nobody can force you to undertake any medical procedure or ingest any medicine against your will - that’s an integral part of bodily autonomy, which is a right and should not be infringed upon in my opinion. Other people *can* recommend taking it to you, that’s not a violation of your rights, even if it’s preachy. I’m also of the mindset that private entities can exclude you based on your vaccination status, but you’re not obligated to provide it to them. I think medical history is a person’s private business, and I only draw a line at contagious diseases that a person *knows* they’re a carrier of. If you’re sick with COVID and you *know* you’re sick with COVID, stay at home. If you don’t, you’re an asshole and you’re putting other people at risk. I think that’s a sensible stance.

 

[NoobletCheese]

If you’re in any of the known high-risk groups (elderly...) you should get vaccinated immediately. Statistics don’t lie - these groups die from COVID at much higher rates than anybody else.

Source: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland

Post automatically merged: Sep 3, 2023

If you’re young and healthy, your risk is significantly lower, but it is advisable that you should vaccinate regardless because you don’t want to be a carrier unknowingly.

Around half of vaccinated people are just as contagious and infectious as unvaccinated. This is not some claim of mine, it's a known fact that is widely undisputed.

So if you are in a room with 30 vaccinated, such as a class room, around 15 of them are equivalent to unvaccinated. If you feel the safety levels of that room are sufficient for you to spend time in on a regular basis, then you forfeit the right to claim their risk level is unacceptably high. Especially if those unvaccinated have tested negative, and you have multiple doses of vaccines and n95 masks protecting you (which are claimed to be highly effective at protecting you - disparaging their efficacy would only make you a conspiracy theorist and an antivaxxer).

More importantly, if a bathroom tap is leaking at 10L/min and you slow it down to 5L/min, it's still going to flood the place, it will just take twice as long. Ask any virologist, you can't vaccinate your way out of a pandemic. You have to vaccinate beforehand, and the vaccine has to be STERILISING and of HIGH DURABILITY, like a normal vaccine. Otherwise it's just going to keep spreading and you're still going to get infected.

I’m also of the mindset that private entities can exclude you based on your vaccination status

Only if they can show I am a significant threat. Given the above example that would be hard to do, and impossible to do if I am tested negative, or have natural immunity from prior infection (which CDC begrudgingly acknoweldged is slightly better than vaccination) and the others are all protected against me with their multiple vaccinations & N95 masks. Then you look at how low the mortality rate for Covid actually is, and you find yourself nowhere near the conclusion you thought you were at.

But let's play devil's advocate and suppose that I am an elevated threat. Your conclusion STILL doesn't follow, since you would still need to complete the primary safety endpoint of phase 3 clinical trials before you could demand anyone take anything. A typical such study takes around 5 years to complete, in order to have a large enough sample size and duration to know that it's safe. The elevated long term mortality rates of the 1 and 4 dose categories above doesn't bode well. Do you know of any other drug that is unsafe in 1 and 4 doses but not 2 and 3 doses? Conventional logic would say that if 1 dose is not good for you, taking more doses isn't going to be magically better.

Another consideration is that the unvaccinated cohort is so incredibly small that you are around 20 times less likely to even encounter an unvaccinated person, so all of your risk calculations get divided by 20. So those 15 you were comfortable with in the class room, all you are doing is increasing that to around 16.

 

[Foxi4]

Source: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland

Post automatically merged: Sep 3, 2023

That’s a nice graph, but you’re neglecting to account for proportions. Allow me to explain.

Among people aged 18 years and over, 75.8% had received at least three COVID-19 vaccinations as of 2 March 2023. Of those who had received three doses and were eligible, 77.7% had continued to their fourth vaccination.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...les/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/vaccines

The primary age group affected by COVID is the elderly, and in the UK, over 75% of people who are 18 or over have received three doses. 9 in 10 people in Gen pop, or 90%+, have received at least one dose. It’s not that the unvaccinated are dying less, or are somehow more resistant to the virus - they simply barely exist. Your graph is comparing deaths within a 90% subset to deaths within a 10% subset. More on that later.

Around half of vaccinated people are just as contagious and infectious as unvaccinated. This is not some claim of mine, it's a known fact that is widely undisputed. So if you are in a room with 30 vaccinated, such as a class room, around 15 of them are equivalent to unvaccinated.

Just say that you’ve reduced the odds by 50%, the rest of this salad is unnecessary. That’s a measurable result.

Ask any virologist, you can't vaccinate your way out of a pandemic.

From the very beginning of this pandemic I’ve been saying, on this very forum, that the ship has sailed and we’re well on our way to seeing COVID becoming an endemic disease. We’re 3 years down the line and we’re still discovering new strains, so if anyone who was having this argument with me in 2020 wants to publish a formal concession, they can do that now. With that being said, claiming that the vaccines “don’t work” is also statistically untrue.

Only if they can show I am a significant threat.

A privately owned business can exclude you for *no reason at all*, they don’t have to demonstrate anything so long as they don’t run afoul of anti-discrimination laws. Anyone can kick you out of their premises, that they own, because they’re in a bad mood that day, let alone when they have a better reason that is plainly stated in their policy. What you think about that is irrelevant - if you don’t like their policy, shop elsewhere. It’s not your property, you’re not entitled to enter it.

Another consideration is that the unvaccinated cohort is so incredibly small that you are around 20 times less likely to even encounter an unvaccinated person, so all of your risk calculations get divided by 20.

So you know that you’re trying to sell me bullshit, but you’re only mentioning it in the last paragraph? Nooblet, I’m older than the average bear, and smarter too.

I’m not telling you what to do. In fact, I don’t care what you do. You can carry on living your life however you want. That being said, if you’re in any of the groups with highly elevated risk of death, you should vaccinate. I say this because I too can look at a graph and draw a conclusion.


https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...icles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/deaths

See? I can quote the ONS too. COVID deaths *strongly* correlate with age, and they always have. The elderly are the primary at-risk group, as I’ve said before. If you’re an old fart, get the jab (which, if you’re in the UK, you probably already did). What you do with this information is up to you - I’m not your dad.

 

[supermist]

Anyone that decided to not get the covid vaccine is in their right to do so. It's illegal to force someone to take medicine they don't want. When compared to the seasonal flu not that many people died from covid.

And those people who choose not to get vaccinated are profoundly stupid individuals, full stop. That's not up for debate.

You can't claim to be intelligent and refuse the vaccine, barring the statistical outliers who genuinely can't receive it.

It's not illegal to be stupid, but antivaxxers are stupid people.

 

[SylverReZ]

You'll always get COVID, no matter what happens if you think your body is immune. Vaccines are designed to kill off diseases and have been going around for years, without them, deaths would increase rapidly.

 

[sarkwalvein]

And those people who choose not to get vaccinated are profoundly stupid individuals, full stop. That's not up for debate.

You can't claim to be intelligent and refuse the vaccine, barring the statistical outliers who genuinely can't receive it.

It's not illegal to be stupid, but antivaxxers are stupid people.

I don't think such a condescending approach is respectable, regarding considering others "stupid individuals" without considering their circumstances, and regarding that something "is not up for debate".

Specially the latter seems like indoctrination to me.
Also the word antivaxxers is a generalization that tries to put a complex group of people with different problems and perspectives into an easy to label bag. And then to discredit that simplified bag. Yep, sounds like indoctrination to me.
It is specially funny (and twisted) how both people that distrust any and all vaccines that have been used for decades and people that distrusts newly developed vaccines barely tested for a couple of years are put into the same bag.
I am guilty of this sin nonetheless, of generalizing.

I don't know the circumstances of each person, but they are sure different circumstances. They deserve the respect to be heard, and their words taken into consideration, if you at least wish to keep pretending we live in a democracy.

 

[supermist]

I don't think such a condescending approach is respectable, regarding considering others "stupid individuals" without considering their circumstances, and regarding that something "is not up for debate".

Specially the latter seems like indoctrination to me.
Also the word antivaxxers is a generalization that tries to put a complex group of people with different problems and perspectives into an easy to label bag. And then to discredit that simplified bag. Yep, sounds like indoctrination to me.
It is specially funny (and twisted) how both people that distrust any and all vaccines that have been used for decades and people that distrusts newly developed vaccines barely tested for a couple of years are put into the same bag.
I am guilty of this sin nonetheless, of generalizing.

I don't know the circumstances of each person, but they are sure different circumstances. They deserve the respect to be heard, and their words taken into consideration, if you at least wish to keep pretending we live in a democracy.

Antivaxxers don't deserve respect and I'm okay with that.

 

[Deleted member 559230]

And those people who choose not to get vaccinated are profoundly stupid individuals, full stop. That's not up for debate.

You can't claim to be intelligent and refuse the vaccine, barring the statistical outliers who genuinely can't receive it.

It's not illegal to be stupid, but antivaxxers are stupid people.

There's a difference between every day people that rather not get the vaccine and hard core anti-vaxxer. It's perfectly fine to not want to get the shot and it doesn't make you stupid because you decline.

 

[Viri]

If we get lockdowns 2.0, I better get another stimmy check! Also, still not getting the vax.