Zelda Sucks

[Danny Tanner]

In the English speaking world, you'd be hard-pressed to find a video game series more revered than The Legend of Zelda. Unfortunately, it sucks a lot. Now, I'm not in the business of changing minds, and I don't expect anyone to stop enjoying a game they do now. But at least consider what I'm saying here, if only to see another side of the die. I'll try to be as objective as possible.

I've played every single Zelda game. Some I played the year they were released, some I didn't play until many years later with the help of emulation. While I have not completed every Zelda game, I have invested a good amount of time into each, desperately trying to see what others do. And that's impossible. See, I have deduced that everyone that reveres TLoZ either finds it nostalgic or is simply a bandwagon fan.

What makes Zelda fun? This is the part I cannot understand. I recognize that, back when the first two games were released, it may have been exciting to see a large over world (or heck, even be able able to save). These first games were revolutionary in style, but simply do not hold up by today's standards, and were only acceptable in the days of their release due to the things they brought to the table. Is wandering around a world, trying to collect obscure clues to piece together simple things like 'where should I go next?' fun? The combat isn't exciting at all, I rarely feel like I'm in danger, even during boss battles. There is no story (besides the usual 'save the princess' nonsense) and no reason to continue. The first three Zelda games I compare to playing the board game Clue, except instead of playing the usual way, someone hides the cards all over your town and you have to find them. It's monotonous with very little reward and relies on trial and error.

Next, I'll talk about the newer Zelda games (I'll get to the middle ones in a second). I consider new Zelda to be all the games since Wind Waker. These games are much easier, and much more playable than the first games. But again, I have to ask the question, what makes them fun? Now, the puzzles are easy (and with the DS iterations, completely see-through) and the combat is still lacking. There's more of a "story" now, but it's usually just a rehash of 'save the princess' crafted as a way to introduce the game's main gimmick. And the gimmicks in these new Zelda games are so one dimensional and boring that they make the game drag on completely. I can see someone make the case that the side quests are fun in these games, but to me, a few side quests with little reward do not make up for the blandness of the main portions of the game.

Ah, here we are at the part of discussion that most will find the most controversial, the middle games. I can't even imagine how many lists of top games have Ocarina of Time or A Link to the Past as their #1. And this is what I understand least. These middle games' puzzles are at such a wide variety of difficulty levels that playing them results in the most uneven game play I have experienced. Whether taking these games individually or as a whole, puzzles required to move on are either incredibly obvious or cryptic. Side quests offer even less of a reward, and combat is still dry. So not only are these games burdened with the problems the other Zelda games have, but a problem unique to the- the hardware they were made for. Again, this varies, but I am mainly pointing to the two N64 titles. My experience with Ocarina of time was one of the worst I have ever had with a game. It took me a solid hour to find the sword and shield required to progress at the beginning of the game. Because I was stupid? Because I suck at games? No, because I was fighting the controls, the graphics were muddy, I couldn't tell what I was looking at, and the game was unclear where I was supposed to go to find the sword. These problems persisted through the first dungeon, after which I promptly quit.

Look at recent Zelda game sales in Japan. It's simply not popular there. It retains its popularity in the Western world, I would argue, through English speaking gaming sites. Nostalgic gamers sing praises of the Zelda series through the lens of someone who enjoyed the games in youth, and newer gamers see this praise and feel compelled to like it, almost as a rite of passage. I say move on. It's fine to enjoy a game series, and it's fine to hold fine memories. But it may be good to reassess you relationship with Zelda, and see if it isn't worth your time to play other games and sing your praises elsewhere.

EDIT: Closing this because many of you are too dumb to contribute to a discussion. And you are worse at backing your arguments. It stands though, so if someone intelligent rolls through here (whether they enjoy Zelda or not) maybe they will enjoy it.

 

[azure0wind]

well, if you ask my opinion zelda is not really sucks....
yes, the combat is still like the old one... but i think its storyline maybe that makes zelda games popular.... actually i'm not zelda big FAN...
(NOTE = Zelda on DS)

 

[Danny Tanner]

well, if you ask my opinion zelda is not really sucks....
yes, the combat is still like the old one... but i think its storyline maybe that makes zelda games popular.... actually i'm not zelda big FAN...
(NOTE = Zelda on DS)

As far as I can see, it's just the same (originally bland) story rehashed a thousand different ways. With the exception of Twilight Princess, the Zelda stories are one of their weaker attributes. I know a lot of people point to, say, Sheik being Zelda or Link finding Old Hyrule underwater to be very strong plot points, but they are merely plot twists, and they lack the frame of a very good story that make plot twists worthwhile in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 35947]

Look at recent Zelda game sales in Japan. It's simply not popular there. It retains its popularity in the Western world, I would argue, through English speaking gaming sites.

Actually recent Zelda games in Japan have done very well. Take Phantom hourglass as an example. I would include Spirit Tracks, but it simply hasn't been out long enough in Japan to compare.

QUOTEPhantom Hourglass was the best-selling game in its first month of June 2007 in Japan, with 302,887 copies. In the United States, the game was the fifth best-selling game when it debuted in October 2007, with 262,800 copies. Over four million copies of Phantom Hourglass were sold worldwide by March 2008.

As for the rest of your post, you're entitled to your opinions. I think the fact you're playing them years later emulated may be part of it. The games were good for their time. Like many games, they don't age well with time. I'd still rate A Link to the Past as one of my favourite Zelda games. Purely for the amount of time I spent on it when it was first released. Of course I don't really play it now as there are better games out.

 

[jgu1994]

I dislike the new ds ones but i absolutely loved the classic gb and gbc ones. Best games ever. I also recently picked up an n64 for the first time and just got ocarina for my birthday and it took me an hour to find the sword too. Controls can be a bit wonky sometimes, especially when locking on, but it's a great game still.

On another note, i absolutely hate mario 64. Controls are really bad for me. The ds wasn't to bad because you could play with the dpad.

 

[jesuschristmonke]

Hey OP, don't try to be the board Troll. That's my gig.

 

[azure0wind]

well....if you say that way bixbite i can't say anything...
(i think you're true...)

 

[prowler]

Hey OP, don't try to be the board Troll. That's my gig.

He isn't trolling.

 

[Magmorph]

I think the Zelda series has been going downhill. The puzzles on the newer games are getting ridiculously easy. The N64 games had challenging puzzles and boss fights and I felt accomplished after completing them. The newer games puzzle's I feel like they are just trying to insult my intelligence.

 

[Danny Tanner]

Look at recent Zelda game sales in Japan. It's simply not popular there. It retains its popularity in the Western world, I would argue, through English speaking gaming sites.

Actually recent Zelda games in Japan have done very well. Take Phantom hourglass as an example. I would include Spirit Tracks, but it simply hasn't been out long enough in Japan to compare.

QUOTEPhantom Hourglass was the best-selling game in its first month of June 2007 in Japan, with 302,887 copies. In the United States, the game was the fifth best-selling game when it debuted in October 2007, with 262,800 copies. Over four million copies of Phantom Hourglass were sold worldwide by March 2008.

As for the rest of your post, you're entitled to your opinions. I think the fact you're playing them years later emulated may be part of it. The games were good for their time. Like many games, they don't age well with time. I'd still rate A Link to the Past as one of my favourite Zelda games. Purely for the amount of time I spent on it when it was first released. Of course I don't really play it now as there are better games out.

Yes I suppose as far as sales go, it depends on what perspective you take. It's true that by units sold, Zelda remains popular, many games envy their sales. I meant from the perspective of percentage of people who own the system it's on who own the game. If you look at the percentage of Japanese Wii owners who own TP, for instance, it's a lot lower than the US.

And yes, I understand the fact that I emulated some of the games may be why I did not enjoy them, which is part of the reason I concluded many fans are in it for nostalgia.

 

[B-Blue]

Speaking of games that suck, Mario games should be first on the list. (super mario world , super mario bros. 3, etc...) I mean c'mon. Same story every time. Same shit you do in every game (waking to the left and jump). bleh, what a boring boring game.

 

[macgeek417]

Speaking of games that suck, Mario games should be first on the list. (super mario world , super mario bros. 3, etc...) I mean c'mon. Same story every time. Same shit you do in every game (waking to the left and jump). bleh, what a boring boring game.

Zelda games suck... but Mario games?! Super Mario Bros. 3 - Best. Game. Ever.
Personally, recently I find the Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles games to be fun. I have the GCN ona and the 2 DS ones.

 

[Bake]

Speaking of games that suck, Mario games should be first on the list. (super mario world , super mario bros. 3, etc...) I mean c'mon. Same story every time. Same shit you do in every game (waking to the left and jump). bleh, what a boring boring game.

That.
And to think they made an RPG out of some plumber. And story is mindblowing. Some giant asshole kidnaps a princess and then a fat plumber has to save her. And don't get me started on Luigi. Just say his name in Italian accent and you'll shit bricks. I know this might not be appropriate but that's what I think of Mario series.

 

[Jaems]

My experience with Ocarina of time was one of the worst I have ever had with a game. It took me a solid hour to find the sword and shield required to progress at the beginning of the game. Because I was stupid? Because I suck at games? No, because I was fighting the controls, the graphics were muddy, I couldn't tell what I was looking at, and the game was unclear where I was supposed to go to find the sword.
I think it's because you're stupid. Honestly, I figured that out when I was seven years old, when, by the way, the graphics were the best I'd ever seen. The controls were as simple as Analog stick to move, A to roll, B to swing sword. The most complicated aspect of it was the freedom to assign any other items to the C buttons. I would bet they are difficult on a keyboard, however. ;P

I also knew that the water was water, and the fence was a fence, and that an NPC was an NPC. Maybe you're so conditioned to newer games?
These games are surely outdated, and I'll agree that the stories are bland and rehashed - most of us know that. No one ever talks about Zelda's brilliant plots, just the gameplay.
And you're right, most people who love Zelda love it purely for the nostalgia, and are long-time fans. Same could be said about any long-running series that has existed since the 80s.

Ocarina of Time, like many Zelda games, gameplay is nonlinear, a reason why the series has been so acclaimed over time. Fans like to be able to find things ourselves without someone telling us where they are. Fans love to explore endlessly, and are content in spending hours discovering every nook'n'cranny.

QUOTEThese problems persisted through the first dungeon, after which I promptly quit.

I am convinced that the only way anyone cannot finish the Deku Tree Dungeon is because of their own extreme impatience.

 

[Danny Tanner]

My experience with Ocarina of time was one of the worst I have ever had with a game. It took me a solid hour to find the sword and shield required to progress at the beginning of the game. Because I was stupid? Because I suck at games? No, because I was fighting the controls, the graphics were muddy, I couldn't tell what I was looking at, and the game was unclear where I was supposed to go to find the sword.

I think it's because you're stupid. Honestly, I figured that out when I was seven years old, when, by the way, the graphics were the best I'd ever seen. The controls were as simple as Analog stick to move, A to roll, B to swing sword. The most complicated aspect of it was the freedom to assign any other items to the C buttons. I would bet they are difficult on a keyboard, however. ;P

Actually pal, I played this one straight, maybe two months after its release. The early N64 graphics were really never good. Revolutionary for a console, yes, but those days, you were better off with 2D than 3D. Yes the controls are "simple" in that each button has one purpose, but their actual usage in the game was far from intuitive, far from fluid and an obstacle more than an interface. This first part of the game was so frustrating, and it wasn't even a puzzle. That is not challenge, and there is no reward for that, in the game or internally. That is the reason I stopped playing, not because of impatience.

 

[asdf]

You gave up at the first temple? Give me a break, Ocarina of Time was one of the easiest Zelda games (yes, even the Water Temple was easy IMO). I played the game in 2002 (when I was 6) and I beat the game no problem. And as for your complaint at the graphics, you do realize the game was released on the N64 in 1998? The N64 isn't the most powerful system on the whole damn planet. And the controls, how are they hard? It's an analog stick, it's actually pretty fucking easy. You're just trolling.

 

[Deleted member 35947]

The first part was hardly challenging in my opinion. I had no problems finding the shield and sword.

Now later Zora's Domain was damn challenging. A game would get boring without any challenging parts anyway.

 

[Guild McCommunist]

Actually pal, I played this one straight, maybe two months after its release. The early N64 graphics were really never good. Revolutionary for a console, yes, but those days, you were better off with 2D than 3D. Yes the controls are "simple" in that each button has one purpose, but their actual usage in the game was far from intuitive, far from fluid and an obstacle more than an interface. This first part of the game was so frustrating, and it wasn't even a puzzle. That is not challenge, and there is no reward for that, in the game or internally. That is the reason I stopped playing, not because of impatience.

I'm sorry that not every game looks like fucking Final Fantasy XIII (which looks super pretty). Give me a break, complaining that Ocarina is "ugly" because 3-D at the time wasn't great. You want "crappy" 3-D? Go play Star Fox on the SNES. Even then, though, that game's awesome and is great in 3-D. I mean seriously though, do you think we could play Ocarina with a bunch of 2-D sprites?

The controls were fine, you're just bad at the game. How can moving around with a joystick, slash with B, pick up with A, and a bunch of items hotkeyed to the C-Buttons be "hard to control"?

The first part of the game was supposed to be rather easy. It's called a difficulty slope. The game starts off easy and gets harder as you go. The game advances skills wise in proportion to your skills. The more you play the better you are, and the more you play the harder the game gets. It's a formula that practically every fucking game uses.

Seriously, this is a broken argument. And any thread with "Zelda Sucks" as a title is straight-on trolling. I don't care if you don't like it, but saying it "sucks" right off the back is obviously going to bring some people, such as myself, bitching and moaning or, if they're not as nice as me, flaming and bashing.

 

[Jaems]

Far from intuitive, far from fluid? Can you explain how?

Press B, sword swing, thing die. By the time I played this game I knew that most games had one button that would allow me to fuck things up, and Zelda was no different. If anything didn't work how someone expected it to, it would have to have been the Z-targeting, because at the time it was an innovation. Fortunately it happened to work very well.

And the frustration you experienced was a result of your impatience. If you became frustrated because you couldn't spend the time to talk to the 20-something NPCs, and explore the smallest area in the game, I'm sure you grew impatient.

 

[Danny Tanner]

You gave up at the first temple? Give me a break, Ocarina of Time was one of the easiest Zelda games (yes, even the Water Temple was easy IMO). I played the game in 2002 (when I was 6) and I beat the game no problem. And as for your complaint at the graphics, you do realize the game was released on the N64 in 1998? The N64 isn't the most powerful on the whole damn planet. And the controls, how are they hard? It's an analog stick, it's actually pretty fucking easy. You're just trolling.

LOLOL you are young and can't read well enough to understand my post. I'll spell it out for you. The portion of the game I played wasn't challenging (as in hard puzzles and difficult battles) but frustrating. Okay, the N64 isn't the most powerful system, but that doesn't give an excuse for developers to release muddy games with archaic controls.

The DS was not strong enough for a game like C.O.P The Recruit, but it still sucks.

Congrats for beating a game when you were six though. You must be superhuman.

EDIT: Also, you are all kind of proving my point that Zelda fans are mostly either nostalgic or "fanboys" (as much as I hate to use the word). Very few of you are mentioning real arguments besides 'You are dumb' or 'OMFG so wut if the grafics r bad LOL!' There is a whole blog post there, not just a part about Ocarina of Time.

Also, Guildy, I stated straight off that I'm not here to change people's minds. I meant it more as a discussion on actual facets of Zelda gameplay.