Hacking vWii in 480p automatically?

[Hambrew]

CMON BOIS I NEED ME SOME 144P WII U GAMES IN MY LIFE

 

[Deleted member 42501]

Thanks for that 480i vs 480p insight, makes a lot of sense.

No one has attempted any kind of tweak/mod to enable the vWii to run in 480p all of the time irrespective of the Wii U setting so its still a case of switching manually each time.

Feel free to message or @ anyone who is versed in coding/knows the Wii U was I can't see a reason why this wouldn't be easy to implement and like everyone who has tried it and noticed the image quality on the vWii side makes an immense leap when 480p is used.

 

[cueropedo]

Well, I tried all of this, and researched a bit, here is what I have to write about:

First off, vWii (at least, in American units) is native 480p despite the Wii U progressive resolution (480p, 720p, and 1080p, all of them have a 480p vWii, not 480i like a user suggested, I didn't test 1080i).
I know this thanks to Settings Editor by JoostinOnline, when the app boots, it shows the current config of your Wii, mine was at 480p in all modes that were tested, I tried to force my vWii resolution to 576i, but it seems that Americans vWiis can only do 480i as interlaced, because it will turn into 480i when I apply the setting.

Now, I took some photos to compare all of this, first from 480p upscaled to 1080p, then 480i upscaled to 1080p, and last native 480p.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nV1CE-iJep9ARRke4y9WU20srUFI5_rK/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15BZ6pOX9qVUTYiwI2yw1JXJ8FnIftkmy/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wKGsiSpv1BlNxSka-iuqtoBmraQaY4op/view

In these 3 photos you can see the differences, I know they are not very good, but I do notice the difference, so I think is enough.

Do zoom, and check the part where the finger is pressing the A button, you can notice that the first one is upscaled to 1080p, it's crisp compared to the other 2, however, it is more jagged too, the native 480p one and the 480i to 1080p image looks blurrier thus the jaggies are camouflaged.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wx-4hT1gjvXM8wVNPxdCgJZ8t2deiYxM/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tWaNYhA-4Z4IdwgAqyGWb-zqxRytnbZW/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ggFQi5vCQmxki1nRonb8S1Kp3Pm7DS1n/view

In this image you can see that the 480pto1080p is still the crisper, the 480ito1080p is the blurrier, but has less jaggies, and the native 480p is between these two in sharpness.

So... I can say that native 480p or upscaled to 1080p has differences, the first one is less sharp and blurrier, also the colors are a little bit less powerful (just like the original Wii), but the upscaled one has slighty better colors, and it's a lot sharper, the image looks clearer but that means jaggies are more noticeable too, also some artifacts appears that are unnoticed on 480p. It's a matter of likes, native 480p looks like the Wii.

Here is a last photo, upscaled 480p to 1080p, vs native 480p:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dNMDBMNGqXOCbH2kSSQj40nR69Zs5cd7/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1a2X-I686NI1tqXsHvOO4TE8SNBrmhsgj/view

In my taste, I prefer the first one, it has more jaggies, but I just prefer the colours and sharpness.

And about the upscaling the TV does... I think that the Wii U surpasses a TV, at least on my case, native 480p on my TV is just a 480p expanded to my whole screen, it looks ultra blurry, in another TV that is smaller than this native 480p looks a lot better, but it's 55" vs 27"...

So, it's a matter of likes really, what it looks better is up to you.

Going to the first message of the topic, everything in software is possible, you just need to do it, in this case, you need to know how vWii communicates with the upscaler... maybe the vWii grabs the Wii U mode resolution? Maybe the vWii doesn't do anything and the Wii U just enter Wii Mode like if it where another software? In this last case, I know the Wii U treates the Wii Mode in a special manner, it disables some cores, and also locks cache, and downs the clock speed of the CPU, along other changes, but what I mean is that maybe the resolution that you set up in the Wii U config is universal for everything (games, apps, etc), so in this case modifying the vWii wouldn't help.
I don't really know how this works, but I think this case is the latter, but it's only my speculation.


Anyway, 480p in the end of the day is 480p, it doesn't really look good unless you have a CRT or a small TV.

Even in small TVs it looks OK, not awesome, it's called "Standard Definition" after all.

What would be awesome is to have a Wii Hybrid Hardware-Software Emulator though, but it would be a hassle to do, the idea would be the Espresso CPU runs the Wii software natively, and then the GPU7/GX2 emulates the Hollywood to do 720p/1080p native res, as far as I know, the Wii U doesn't have the entire Wii GPU but components that let's do it thing.

But that's utopia, it's not going to happend.

 

[Maxbeta]

Look into an app called Settings Editor GUI v1.8 which is an addon to postLoader if you'd like resolutions like 576i and stuff.




Also, mClassic by Marseille is an HDMI adapter that will correct most of the upscaling flaws on vWii.
However, it does not come cheap (I was one of the early backers and was able to snag it for less than $60) and you still need to set the Wii U resolution to 480p for it to do its upscaling magic though.
But it makes a world of a difference and all the games look amazing now, specially if you own a 4K tv.

 

[Brawl345]

but what I mean is that maybe the resolution that you set up in the Wii U config is universal for everything

I know that the Wii U writes the network config for the Wii Mode while entering it so the same should happen for all other settings (like parental controls, display settings, sound settings, etc.)

 

[portugeek]

First off, vWii (at least, in American units) is native 480p despite the Wii U progressive resolution (480p, 720p, and 1080p, all of them have a 480p vWii, not 480i like a user suggested, I didn't test 1080i).
I know this thanks to Settings Editor by JoostinOnline, when the app boots, it shows the current config of your Wii, mine was at 480p in all modes that were tested.

Do you have proof, other than Joostins Settings Editor, that vWii mode is native 480p despite Wii U resolution? Because I also use Joostins Settings Editor v2.0, and even though it shows 480p option on every boot up, when you select currently loaded settings, it defaults to 480i, regardless of Wii U resolution. To test this I changed the settings to 480p, hit Save and Exit, then re-entered S.E. GUI and reselected "currently loaded settings", and again it goes right back to 480i. It does this regardless of how many times I change the settings. Honestly, I'm not sure if Settings Editor GUI makes any real changes in vWii mode.

The reason I feel confident about the vWii resolution being changed when the Wii U is set to 720p or higher, is because of how I have my Wii U connected.

My Wii U is connected to my Xbox One's HDMI input port. And that port isn't compatible with 480i via HDMI. I've tested this quite a bit using HDMI converters for some of my retro consoles. And unless the converter is also an upscaler, the Xbox wouldn't recognize the signal coming in.

Now, in this case with the Wii U, the Xbox always displays it, until I boot up vWii mode. When I boot up vWii mode, the Xbox displays it as a green image. If I drop the Wii U settings to 480p, then re-enter vWii mode, the Xbox displays it correctly.

Something is definitely happening to the vWii resolution when the WiiU's resolution is set to 720p or higher. What it is, I'm not sure yet, but it's changing the resolution to something that is not compatible with Xbox's HDMI input port. I'll be doing more testing.

 

[Clector]

What would be awesome is to have a Wii Hybrid Hardware-Software Emulator though, but it would be a hassle to do, the idea would be the Espresso CPU runs the Wii software natively, and then the GPU7/GX2 emulates the Hollywood to do 720p/1080p native res, as far as I know, the Wii U doesn't have the entire Wii GPU but components that let's do it thing.

But that's utopia, it's not going to happend.

The Wii U GPU has pretty much the Wii GPU inside it.
But the VI in the Wii U vWii mode is emulated by the DMCU microcontroller that's only active on the vWii mode and the DMCU communicates with the Wii software and translates things to the Wii U Radeon and it seems to include the upscaling configurations. It also seems to be possible to update the firmware of the DMCU (Nintendo updated it at least one time), so I wonder if it's possible to make a custom firmware for it to imrpove how the upscale and so is done.

 

[cueropedo]

Do you have proof, other than Joostins Settings Editor, that vWii mode is native 480p despite Wii U resolution?

Yes, I have it.
First, check the photos I did upload, 480pto1080p shows a clear difference to 480ito1080p, the last one is a lot more blurrier, even more than native 480p, my vWii never looks like that.
Also, don't use the Xbox One HDMI to test the picture of your Wii U, connect it directly to the TV, if you say that the Xbox shows you a green image then the picture might have some processing done, which means you may not have a clean Wii U image output. However, I don't know how the Xbox One works, so I will not discuss to much about it.
Anyway, even if the vWii is set to 480i in Settings Editor, the Wii U would output a progressive signal, that's at least what my TV says.

Because I also use Joostins Settings Editor v2.0, and even though it shows 480p option on every boot up, when you select currently loaded settings, it defaults to 480i, regardless of Wii U resolution. To test this I changed the settings to 480p, hit Save and Exit, then re-entered S.E. GUI and reselected "currently loaded settings", and again it goes right back to 480i. It does this regardless of how many times I change the settings. Honestly, I'm not sure if Settings Editor GUI makes any real changes in vWii mode.

It doesn't exist a option called "currently loaded settings" in the app, you may be referring to "Load stored settings" instead... and that's what it does, it loads settings that were stored in the present.cfg.
That file purpose is to put customized options in the app, it defaults to 0 if nothing is specified, which is the first option in the settings, 480i=0 480p=1 and 576i=2. That has nothing to do with your vWii actual config.

If you still want more proof about the vWii being 480p, then just do a small test, grab the app, and select the opposite setting about your Wii Remote rumble, in my case, the controller rumble was disabled, so, I turned it on.
Then select "Save changes and exit" ONLY, and after you are on HBC, turn off your Wii U. Enter to vWii again and you tell me if the option didn't have effect.
Also, note that even if you did choose 480i, the next boot will automatically switch again into 480p.
You should also notice a difference between 480i and 480p if you change it from Settings Editor, 480i is noticeably blurrier than 480p.

The Wii U GPU has pretty much the Wii GPU inside it.
But the VI in the Wii U vWii mode is emulated by the DMCU microcontroller that's only active on the vWii mode and the DMCU communicates with the Wii software and translates things to the Wii U Radeon and it seems to include the upscaling configurations. It also seems to be possible to update the firmware of the DMCU (Nintendo updated it at least one time), so I wonder if it's possible to make a custom firmware for it to imrpove how the upscale and so is done.

Ah... you are citing information from that blog from Fail0verflow right?, I forgot about that blog.
I wrote that the Wii U doesn't have the entire Wii GPU based on this thread, when Ko Shiota said this:"The designers were already incredibly familiar with the Wii, so without getting hung up on the two machines completely different structures, they came up with ideas we would never have thought of. There were times when you would usually just incorporate both the Wii U and Wii circuits, like 1+1. But instead of just adding like that, they adjusted the new parts added to Wii U so they could be used for Wii as well.".
With that (since I did forgot about the Fail0verflow blog) I assumed that the Wii U didn't really have the Wii GPU.
Guess I will look forward to reverse engineered info rather that company's statements, I would end buying their claims like when $only said that the PS3 has a 1.8TFLOPS GPU.

So, in short, the Wii GPU is there, but it lacks the original Video Interface, which it is emulated with a small Motorola 8-bit Microcontroller, this DMCU is visible for Wii games as the original VI, and then the DMCU translates all the registers the VI generates to the Radeon (GX2), correct? If that's the case, then the Wii U GX2 is still working on vWii mode, maybe it uses these CRTC registers to talk to the upscaler and from there applies the upscale algorithm, maybe actually the upscaling is done in the GX2?, maybe in the AV/HDMI Encoder?.

Anyway, if that the case, and the DMCU was updated, it should be possible to make a custom firmware for it to improve the upscaling.

 

[SuperDan]

God that was quite the read ... but very informative ... as i mention before i play on a HD projector ... 200 inch screen so you really see the jaggies a bit more ... all the same my kids dont care im just OCD on stuff like that

 

[N7Kopper]

Time for me to share my experiences with my crappy old composite-at-best CRT.

vWii in fact does natively use 480/576i... if that is also the Wii U's setting. Not only that, but if you force vWii to a native 480p, the scaler will downscale that to the chosen interlaced resolution. All progressive settings make vWii default to a native 480p. The Xbox One's inability to parse interlaced inputs is irrelevant, because it's already been converted at that stage. There has to be something else going on.

 

[portugeek]

Time for me to share my experiences with my crappy old composite-at-best CRT.

vWii in fact does natively use 480/576i... if that is also the Wii U's setting. Not only that, but if you force vWii to a native 480p, the scaler will downscale that to the chosen interlaced resolution. All progressive settings make vWii default to a native 480p. The Xbox One's inability to parse interlaced inputs is irrelevant, because it's already been converted at that stage. There has to be something else going on.

I wish I knew what was, because I'd really like to pass it through my Xbox, and vWii only ever displays accurately when WiiU is set at 480p.

 

[portugeek]

I messed around with it a little more today (connecting the WiiU directly to my monitor) and it confirmed a lot of what people have been saying already. The vWii resolution seems to be upscaling to whatever resolution the WiiU is set to.

Whatever upscaling the WiiU is doing, the Xbox apparently doesn't like. I would imagine that the WiiU isn't doing anything to vWii mode when WiiU is set to 480p.

 

[Clector]

It does a some overscan and filters the image a bit in 480p actually I think (why so? That's a good question), but probably nothing that will make the Xbox upset.

 

[azy77]

Until I saw this thread I always set wii u to 720P but for wii games it looked bad, so then after reading OP I started using 480p for wii and gamecube games and felt it looked less blurry than 720p.

Just today I tried 1080P and for wii games I think it actually looks noticably sharper than 480p with less blurriness and the colours seem more vibrant. Definitely looks much better (vibrant and clearer) than a normal wii at 480p component.

I have a 4k lg tv not sure if that matters

 

[Deleted member 42501]

It all depends on the TV and upscaler plus final display resolution so everyones mileage will vary.

Anyone made any progress on the auto switching? Can we get a @FIX94 in here?

 

[Deleted member 42501]

Food for thought:

You may have noticed that good old VI (the display controller / Video Interface of ye olde GameCube and Wii) is gone. Huh? How does that work? Turns out they’re emulating that in software and translating its configuration to the R7xx’s CRTC registers. But where does this emulation software run? Sneaky: they added a special microcontroller to the Latte just for this purpose. The DMCU is a 68HC11 compatible 8-bit CPU whose sole purpose is to perform VI emulation. It has a frontend hardware shim that looks like VI to the Wii software, and behind the scenes it translates those registers to the Radeon’s, including upscaling configuration. cafe2wii loads the DMCU’s firmware (the DMCU doesn’t seem to be active in Wii U mode). It has its own dedicated RAM and access to both the faux-VI back side and the Radeon’s register area. There is also a little mailbox to talk to it from vWii mode: the System Menu and IOS use this to configure the 4:3 stretch mode for Virtual Console games (which is why The Homebrew Channel accidentally ends up in the wrong mode: after a recent update, the System Menu thinks it’s a Virtual Console title due to its title ID starting with ‘L’ and sets up that special mode). Presumably it also got an update when gamepad support for vWii showed up, though I haven’t looked at the firmware again since then.


https://fail0verflow.com/blog/2014/console-hacking-2013-omake/

 

[andrewtjb]

Its shame nintendo didn't add a option for this in the firmware. I've had a wii u for years and it's been one of my biggest annoyances.

I did some testing myself comparing vwii to my old wii connected to my samsung 4k smart tv (would normally use rgb scart but this tv doesnt have scart ports).

I loaded mario galaxy on both systems and I found the vwii at 1080p looked more vibrant and sharper than the wii but you could also see more of the wii picture issues like black bars, aliasing, jaggies and the grid like pattern.

The wii had a much softer image, dimmer and more washed out.

Interestingly I also saw the grid pattern on the wii at 480p but it was less noticable.

Setting the Wii u to 480p seemed to produce the overall best image for me. It's not as sharp as 1080 but you lose the black bars and theres less jaggies.

 

[Deleted member 42501]

Yeah, just switching back and forth is a harumph! Anyone looked into this yet?

 

[marcusfrewinridley]

Just tried it and it does make a massive difference. Checked wii sports and wii sports resort. Probably as good if not better than actual wii on component cables. Resident evil 4 should look much better aswell, will check when get more time.

Such a simple thing but never occurred to me to try before.

Cheers OP.

Was this through HDMI or Wii component cables from the Wii U? Wondering whether to invest in Wii component cables for my Wii when I already have a Wii U

 

[azy77]

Im actually using 1080p on wii u now as fond it to be cleaner on my tv, when I wrote above quote I used to use 720p for wii u.

Always used HDMI on Wii U.