Squeenix has lost touch?

Discussion in 'General Gaming Discussion' started by 727, Sep 12, 2011.

Sep 12, 2011

Squeenix has lost touch? by 727 at 1:05 AM (1,683 Views / 0 Likes) 25 replies

  1. 727
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    Member 727 GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    I mean more and more I see this great dynasty showing signs of a fall; the games these days aren't as bad as some people tend to say but they're just not up to par with the classics we once experienced. Then you have the fact they ignore VS 13 completely in order to milk a cliche product like FF13. I really feel like they think fans want more of the same; except the same that they now deliver, isn't the same that made them who they are. It's like doing the same thing and expecting different results. It's not so much that I dislike Squeenix because they're still my favorite company but it just seems like they aren't as capable as they once were. It makes me think they either lost the people that had the classic touch or they're just different people now in how they think.
     


  2. Nujui

    Member Nujui I need something to do.

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    They seem pretty fine to me.
     
  3. Ron

    Member Ron somehow a weeb now.

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    Lol "Sqeenix"
    It sounds funny.

    Well, I really don't see a difference in of games Square Enix makes, in the generic JRPG genre.
    Milking a game doesn't mean that it's lower quality.
     
  4. Hells Malice

    Member Hells Malice Are you a bully?

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    It's not milking a game to make a sequel. If the fans want it, and the storyline can handle it, then a sequel is often welcome. Especially for RPGs.

    I mean FF7 got a little stupid with it...but, yeah.

    Squeenix never actually MADE the best jRPGs around. They're fun, but they're never "holy shit best ever" RPGs. They've produced (note: not same as developed) some stellar jRPGs though, like Nier (which pisses me off because people think SE made it, not Cavia).

    jRPGs aren't coming it in such masses anymore though. Not good ones anyways. But that's because there's a lack of good idea in the industry.
    Well, that and a lot of good jRPGs don't get freakin' localized...or take forever to localize.

    *stares at Tales of Graces*
     
  5. Raiser

    Member Raiser I am mad scientist.

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    I don't see anything wrong.

    Sure a bunch of the FF fanbase bitched out how 'bad' and 'linear' XIII was. I haven't played it myself, but the story is apparently is quite set for a sequel so I don't see anything wrong with going ahead with that and listening to the fans along the way.

    Change isn't always bad and, in a lot of cases, is probably needed.
     
  6. Gahars

    Member Gahars Bakayaro Banzai

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    Square Enix is certainly having trouble (the FFXIV debacle is prove of that alone), but I'm not sure if "lost touch" is the right phrase.

    I'm not a huge fan, but it seems like their most recent original outings (like The Last Remnant) haven't faired too well, so it's understandable at least that they are trying to get all they can from their current franchises.

    Give it a few years. If it gets worse, than yeah, probably. Really, though, a little change up in management might just be all it needs; bring in new people with new ideas and give them a try. Who knows, it could work.
     
  7. TwinRetro

    Global Moderator TwinRetro Don't start nothin', Won't be nothin'

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    The problem is, the Square Enix fanbase is growing up, believe it or not.
     
  8. 727
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    Member 727 GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    I'm just used to the ps1 era where every game was a legitimate classic in storytelling and gaming.

    FFVII>FFtactics>Xenogears>FFVIII>Chrono Cross>FFIX

    What an amazing run that really was.

    I think people are more hyped about vs 13 than they give it credit for but they don't want to take any chances. They've lost touch in that they've lost their touch.
     
  9. FranckKnight

    Member FranckKnight GBAtemp Regular

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    How can I put this into words...

    It's hard to say if it's SquareEnix that lost his touch, or instead just wasn't able to cope with the expectations and evolution of games in general. It's hard to explain in a few words.

    If you look at the evolution of gaming, you'll notice alot of things changed :

    -The worldmap was somewhat required as a medium to travel, has given place to more beautifully detailed areas to move through the areas and stories. It's a matter of taste in that aspect I suppose, but how many games can you count since the PS2 era that had an actual overworld map? I know of two offhandly that did fine with it too (Dragon Quest 8 and Suikoden 5), while most of the games went with a more 'scaled' exploration (FFX and FFXII among others).

    It's hard to say which one is better, but they are used differently. DQ8 had a beautiful, colored overworld to explore, but at the same time, due to the size of it, it also felt smaller to explore in a certain way. Yet I won't say that it wasn't amazing either. Suikoden 5 instead scaled down the models to the worldmap, giving it a very retro look, which was different than what they had attempted before in S3 and S4, that didn't have a worldmap proper (well it was an ocean in S4's case).

    -Probably due to lack of programming space back in the NES/SNES days, but nowadays all games have built in tutorials, you can essentially ignore the instruction manual, as everything is given when you start the game.

    -Somewhat related to the worldmap, the graphics have been increasingly detailed and lifelike. Where as before you had to do your best with a 40x20 pixel sprite, today we have fully-scaled 3D models.

    -Battle systems have vastly evolved from the turn-based system the NES had. While you could say that Dragon Quest's battle system has not changed all that much since the first games, it still showed an evolution, wether it's in graphics or in gameplay, such as the skill system or more tactical uses of tension. All games try to make themselves unique, including FF games, instead of just trying to be a reiteration of the previous game's ATB system with tweaks to how you use spells, limit breaks or job classes.

    Basically, what I mean is that it's very hard to properly gauge what people will want to see in a game. Do you want to see twelve times the same battle system with different stories, or be tossed some new elements in every game, changing your strategies or devising different manners of maximizing your team's power? That's mostly up to you.

    As for FF13, I can note several 'good' points, but also bad points. I enjoyed the game for what it was, what it had to offer. I wouldn't call it terrible by any stretch, but it's greatest fault is being a FF : the high expectations that people have for it makes the fault look worse than they would be for another game.

    Same thing happened with FF8. Alot of gamers had started their console- or RP-life with PS1 and FF7. The greatest downfall of FF8 for them was that it was NOT FF7-2. But if you take it for what it is, it had one of the most customizable battle system of any game. It tried new things like no-gil from monsters, or no treasure chest, and weapons that aren't bought but modified/crafted instead. It was a gamble honestly, but it wasn't the first time they did it either.

    If you look further back, FF2's battle system was a very long shot from the original. No jobs/classes distinctions, essentially 4 characters that are the same and you can 'mold' into a role that you want, you could make 4 times the same character. More flexibility, yes, but also less uniqueness depending on your playstyle. Also no experience points, a stat growing system that was later recycled in the SaGa series.

    Beside that, all of the FF games had a similar battle system, wether it was turn based or ATB, even FFX was a more 'tactical' take on the ATB, in which you could work with the results of your actions clearly seen as making your (or opponent's) waiting time longer or shorter. The rest is what changes, wether it's the job system (FF3-5-Tactics), or lack thereof (FF6-7-8), characters stuck in their jobs (FF4-FF9), the spell/skill system (Drawing/GF in FF8, Materias in FF7, equipment in FF9-TAdv), level advancement (experience, Sphere grid in FFX), and many more changes.

    So FF13's battle system did not come as a surprise, and I did not find it horrible by any stretch. It was very active, very complex in a way. It had a 'controlled chaos' uniqueness, and it's in that way that I see that SquareEnix did a great job. The way they paced the battle system to learn every nuance of it, and the fact that you get to control all of the characters in a given role in turn, I felt it was a great idea. Being tossed in the chapter 10-13's battle system direction would end up in a large amount of frustration and game overs no doubt.

    The difficulty is what I expected as well. Another evolution of games is in having the main story being relatively easy, for the more casual gamer that only wants to sit through the story, and then a large amount of extra that is more challenging for those that love it. But here comes one of FF13's cave-ins.

    The biggest lack was in the sidequests. There was essentially nothing hidden, no side-tracking involved that would allow you to find a few precious items or gain extra levels by straying off path. There is essentially no back-tracking, no exploration, nothing left hidden by the time you went through an area. This is what they called linear.

    But at the same time, I understand that if they left you stray off the path too much, it could have thrown off the pacing of learning the battle system. Also the way the story was made, you don't get to pick your team until chapter 10 or so. So for the story to remain coherent, it was probably necessary to avoid all of that extra skipping. But when the team gets together, it could have used a bit more of those extras.

    So I wouldn't say they lost their touch, I'd rather say that while trying new things, they weren't able to properly read what people wanted out of the FF games. It seems they have listened and are making a very interesting looking FF13-2 and VS. I'm looking forward to both titles.
     
  10. prowler

    Member prowler Sony

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    They haven't ignored it (it's now in 100% development), just because you haven't heard anything doesn't mean they've ignored it.
     
  11. Gahars

    Member Gahars Bakayaro Banzai

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    To be fair, the fact that, despite being announced in 2005/2006, we have seen next to nothing of the game doesn't seem to bode well for it at all.

    To be honest, I think this is one of the problems that has been plaguing SE: excessivley long development cycles. It seems that they go into production with a few too many ambitions, and spend way too long trying to make them all work. The games then have to do very well to justify the costs that went into their development, or else the company loses quite a bit of money.

    Scaling back their games might sound counter-productive, but perhaps for a few years or so, just experimenting gameplay/story mechanics with some smaller games (rather than giant, 100 hour epics) might be good for them.
     
  12. prowler

    Member prowler Sony

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    Type-0 was announced in 06 too, Square Enix likes to announce things and start working on them a few years later.

    Though Versus looks like it's worth the wait, something to bring back fans and probably something big depending on how they go about it (like getting rid of XIII in the title)
     
  13. matt1freek

    Member matt1freek GBAtemp Fan

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    in my opinion they lost touch 8 years ago when they brought out unlimited saga to a unsespecting crowd. Don't get me wrong there have been a few gems since then.. TWEWY for instance but square used to be like a seal of quality back in the snes/ psx heyday. Now if you see it its most likely a remake cash-in.
    Now if Square had developed the fantastic game that is Xenoblade i probally would have forgiven them for the past few years. I realize the developers for the most part were a part of square during "the heyday" however when most of your development teams jumpship, it has to say something about where your going as a company.
    ::End X-Fanboy Rant
     
  14. FranckKnight

    Member FranckKnight GBAtemp Regular

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    Let's take this differently.

    Maybe Square was a 'seal of quality', or rather a benchmark for all of the games on the system? Let's go with that for argument sake.

    Which means that they were essentially making the best games there was, all of the other games compared to it, even if it's only in our minds as gamers, or reviewers.

    Nowadays, the quality is more spread over. Perhaps it's not really Square that lowered its quality, but rather all of the other companies that caught up and raised theirs?

    Just a speculation. Because of the reputation Square gathered with the years, even if they aren't the best company anymore, they still end up what we compare games to, especially in the RPG genre. So when Square produces a good-but-not-best RPG, compared to other series, we feel let down.

    I honestly can't find a SquareEnix game that counts as 'terrible'. It's a hit or miss in certain cases, personal opinions being the key word here (like FF8 and FF13 as I pointed in my previous post here), but overall the games were not terrible. They had no glaring flaws that made the game unplayable or needlessly harder than inteded like earlier NES/SNES were.

    Hell, even Square had quite a few flaws in their own games back then, under the form of glitches and bugs. Among others :

    -FF1 had a ton of glitches, going form elemental magic not doing any extra damage, to weapons strong-vs that weren't working, to cure spells not curing as much as they should, to stats not affecting the power of magic at all, and that's just grazing part of it. How people managed to still beat that game is a testimony to incredible patience.

    -FF6 had a problem with evasion generally speaking. Ever wondered back then why it didn't seem to matter if you were Blind or not? Evasion was based on Magic Evasion due to such a bug, and you could make yourself a tank by maximizing magic evasion was a result, it would essentially block everything.

    -FF7, just to be different than FF6, was making absolutely no use of magic defense. No matter how much you pumped into your character, it wouldn't matter. This is probably why some of the bosses were harder than they should.
     
  15. _Chaz_

    Member _Chaz_ GBAtemp's Official Mook™

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    Personally, I think things started to go wrong on April 1, 2003.
     
  16. Qtis

    Member Qtis Grey Knight Inquisitor

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    Buying Eidos plc. Getting the IP for Deus Ex and such. Not really bad imho. Also FFXII/XIII weren't that bad, they were just different.

    Sure SE isn't making FFVII again and again, but seriously the game was interesting when it was released because of a solid combat system and interesting story. The game was long as hell and that just doesn't happen anymore nowadays. People may not have as much time to play and also bringing online onto everything is something that has hurt these kinds of games a bit: "LOL NO ONLAIN? LOLLLOLOL PEACE OF SHIII!" isn't that unheard of in a Gamestop near where I live..


    -Qtis
     
  17. Vigilante

    Member Vigilante TempLurker

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    Your correct,the new game SQ games now are nothing compared to the classics.
    When Square and Enix joined together it just slowly got worse.
     
  18. Raiser

    Member Raiser I am mad scientist.

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    This is completely subjective.

    People are just so attached to what Squaresoft put out that any attempt at change is simply rejected, no matter how it's executed.
    Then when VII comes out, as the 'revolutionary' 3D RPG of the series which, to many, added a whole new depth to the genre, people expect every following game in the series to be just like it?

    Just accept what they're putting out rather than crying about how they're not 'producing games like VII' or whining about how they're not remaking those earlier games which should remain in such states for obvious reasons.

    Like FranckKnight says, I can't see how any Square game has been 'terrible'. Maybe some aren't up to snuff, but that's really it.
     
  19. Wizerzak

    Member Wizerzak Because I'm a potato!

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  20. NiGHtS

    Member NiGHtS GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    People are idiots.

    Square Enix hasn't lost its touch its simply bringing out new things, if they kept serving all the 'Squaresoft diehards' then every next game would be another Final Fantasy VII style game, which would suck. Final Fantasy VII was revolutionary for it's time, but not anymore, I believe their new stuff is still awesome, not QUITE revolutionary but on it's way there...
     

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