Romney vs. Obama

[leic7]

I'm sure they're both lying, quite a large percentage of the time, depending on your perspective and what you consider a lie. It's like a choice between a shit sandwich, and a shit sandwich with lots of ketchup.

Well, not all opinions are created equal. When two sides disagree with each other, both sides don't necessarily have equally valid points. The problem with Romney's tax plan (one of the more memorable "lies") is this: one side says "1-1=1 and yes, the math absolutely works", and the other side says "No, the math doesn't work". That's not just a disagreement...one of them is actually more right than the other.

Since neither Romney nor Ryan could offer any specifics about their tax plan, I'd like to pose this question to you (or someone like you), someone who apparently supports the plan (and presumably knows what exactly they're supporting): Will the effective tax rates for the wealthy be higher, lower, or the same, after the 20% tax cut and the closing of loopholes and deductions?

Dude, I would in all seriousness cast my vote for Vermin Supreme before I voted to re-elect Obama. And as for "specifics" I know better than get all twisted up over such things because once any "plan" gets run through the congressional meat grinder it's not even recognizable anymore. So, I'm just going with the "dark ages", apparently.

You don't know whether the proposed tax plan intends to raise or lower the effective tax rate for the wealthy?

 

[notmeanymore]

I really don't want Obama to win, I don't like Romney either though.
If America is still a place by 2016, we need a proper Republican president, hopefully Mike Huckabee will run.

Edit: I do have to stick up for Romney's "controversial" PBS/Big Bird comment from the first debate. PBS is not worth borrowing from China for, along with God only knows what else. That sounds like a method of bringing down the debt that I could fully stand behind.

 

[Gahars]

If America is still a place by 2016, we need a proper Republican president, hopefully Mike Huckabee will run.

It won't. David Blaine's been perfecting his disappearing act.

Edit: I do have to stick up for Romney's "controversial" PBS/Big Bird comment from the first debate. PBS is not worth borrowing from China for, along with God only knows what else. That sounds like a method of bringing down the debt that I could fully stand behind.

Eh, a few things on that. The whole "borrowing from China" bit is misleading at best, and the amount of money diverted towards PBS is, proportionately, minuscule especially compared to the defense cuts that Romney refuses to consider. Not to mention, it's money well spent. Funding for PBS, NPR, etc. is an investment that yields a better educated, more informed, and more culturally enriched populace.

Plus, there's the example of "The Learning Channel" to consider...

 

[DiscostewSM]

How much is PBS getting from the US budget? 0.014%? Their actual funding from the government is only about 15% from all the money they get total, and they get contributions "from viewers like you". Sesame Street in particular also does merchandising with their learning toys and material.

 

[Hanafuda]

Interesting. I'm open to there being more to this, don't mind admitting I don't know much about PP.

 

[BlueStar]

http://youtu.be/j_05XN5VejM

Bah, dunno why it won't embed. Does demonstrate, however, how the media are so terrified of saying anything bad about Romney.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_05XN5VejM

 

[BlueStar]

Interesting. I'm open to there being more to this, don't mind admitting I don't know much about PP.

The other side of the argument

Following the controversy surrounding Susan G. Komen for the Cure's initial announcement that it would end its relationship with Planned Parenthood, right-wing media have tried to downplay Planned Parenthood's efforts to fight cancer, claiming that Planned Parenthood doesn't provide mammograms and does "nothing to prevent breast cancer." But this ignores the numerous cancer-related services Planned Parenthood annually provides to women -- including more than 1.5 million cancer screenings and preventative services in 2010 -- such as breast exams, mammogram referrals, and screenings for other types of cancer; moreover, contrary to right-wing claims, some Planned Parenthood clinics do indeed provide mammograms.

Full article
http://mediamatters....-types-o/184820

 

[Hanafuda]

So for the most part, they don't do mammograms.

edit: found this http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/mammograms.asp

 

[BlueStar]

As Snopes says, true in a literal sense that they don't do it there, but they do "offer comprehensive breast care" including beast exams, and they play a major part in the supply of mammograms by referring people and using grant money to reimburse the providers who perform them.

In short, planned parenthood provides access to mammograms. I don't think the PP clinics where abortions are not actually carried out get a free pass from pro-lifers because they 'don't do abortions' because the procedure is carried out on a different site, or do they?

Did Obama actually say that PP performs mammograms? I can only see him saying that women rely on PP for mammograms. People rely on auto insurance companies to get their car fixed, but that doesn't mean your insurance salesman has your car jacked up in his office with a spanner and an oily rag.

 

[LightyKD]

http://youtu.be/j_05XN5VejM

Bah, dunno why it won't embed. Does demonstrate, however, how the media are so terrified of saying anything bad about Romney.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=j_05XN5VejM

That doesn't surprise m about CNN. They have been leaning Right a lot lately. They used to be centrist with Fox being for Righties and MSNBC being for Lefties like myself but now CNN is just Right but not wacko far right.

 

[dickfour]

I was looking at this poll and I hate to disappoint all you kiddies but no candidate with Obama's numbers has ever gone on to win the presidency

 

[Lacius]

Dude, I would in all seriousness cast my vote for Vermin Supreme before I voted to re-elect Obama.

Based on everything that's been covered in this thread, why?

And as for "specifics" I know better than get all twisted up over such things because once any "plan" gets run through the congressional meat grinder it's not even recognizable anymore.

Well, without specifics, your guy's plan raises the deficit by $7 trillion, so it's kind of important. Romney can't claim the math works when he doesn't provide the numbers. On the opposite side, the Obama campaign has provided the nonpartisan numbers that show Romney cannot accomplish what he's claiming without exploding the deficit or increasing taxes on the middle class.

The economy isn't getting any better, it is getting worse.

Except the economy is getting better.

That doesn't surprise m about CNN. They have been leaning Right a lot lately. They used to be centrist with Fox being for Righties and MSNBC being for Lefties like myself but now CNN is just Right but not wacko far right.

I have no evidence to back it up, but I get the feeling CNN tries so hard to be in the center that they avoid saying anything that would cause the right-wingers to scream "liberal bias," even if the thing they're not saying is true. CNN tries so hard not to be controversial that it's controversial.

I was looking at this poll and I hate to disappoint all you kiddies but no candidate with Obama's numbers has ever gone on to win the presidency

What numbers are you referring to? Because according to the polls, it's more likely than not that President Obama will win.

 

[notmeanymore]

How much is PBS getting from the US budget? 0.014%? Their actual funding from the government is only about 15% from all the money they get total, and they get contributions "from viewers like you". Sesame Street in particular also does merchandising with their learning toys and material.

Exactly, if 85% of PBS is funded by us, I think we can come up with the Government's 15%. I've no objections to that.

 

[Lacius]

Exactly, if 85% of PBS is funded by us, I think we can come up with the Government's 15%. I've no objections to that.

Two problems:

1. You're missing the point that funding to PBS is practically irrelevant when talking about America's budget problems.
2. Funding for PBS represents our country's valuing of educational programs.

Conservatives are basically arguing that educational programs like funding for PBS (which highly benefits rural and poor areas), other programs that benefit the poor (food stamps, for example), etc. should be cut in order to pay for tax breaks for the rich, oil subsidies, etc. This makes no sense, particularly when there's no evidence that tax cuts for the rich and oil subsidies, for example, would have any substantive effect on the economy. It also makes no sense in that it barely begins to cover the costs of things like these tax breaks for the wealthy.

 

[Gahars]

I was looking at this poll and I hate to disappoint all you kiddies but no candidate with Obama's numbers has ever gone on to win the presidency

Lacius already addressed this pretty well, but I just want to add one thing: FDR.

Sure, we didn't keep track of economic data the same way we do today, but the man went on to get reelected three times throughout the calamities of the Great Depression and World War II. You can cite the economic recovery as a weakness for Obama's reelection campaign, but it is by no means an insurmountable obstacle.

 

[notmeanymore]

Exactly, if 85% of PBS is funded by us, I think we can come up with the Government's 15%. I've no objections to that.

Two problems:

1. You're missing the point that funding to PBS is practically irrelevant when talking about America's budget problems.

It's not like PBS is the only thing being cut. I'm okay with temporarily cutting funding to different areas until we're not so deep in debt.

 

[Lacius]

It's not like PBS is the only thing being cut. I'm okay with temporarily cutting funding to different areas until we're not so deep in debt.

I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be any spending cuts; in fact, I think President Obama's deficit-reduction plan includes $2 in spending cuts for every $1 in revenue gains. The problem is that conservatives are asking the poor, elderly, and other vulnerable populations to pay with cuts to food stamps, PBS, Medicare, etc. when our debt primarily comes from two wars and tax cuts that were both put on the nation's credit card. The Bush tax cuts and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan caused our debt problem, and Romney wants to enact more tax cuts and more military spending. As mentioned in the most recent debate, Bush caused our debt problem, and there is very little difference between Bush's policies and Romney's policies.

Spending cuts are part of the equation, but so is asking higher income Americans to pay their fair share. And I'm not even going to get started on how Grover Norquist's Republican Party couldn't realistically balance the budget to save their lives.

 

[Hyro-Sama]

The Wii is better than Obama

 

[chyyran]

The Wii is better than Obama

I shall tell all my American friends to vote for Reggie this year.

Because his body is ready.

EDIT:

I read that whole article, I just romnied when I saw that Muscle March video.

 

[LightyKD]

Looks like Mitt just cut his first Hip Hop album.

LMFAO!!!!