Patching the 300-Title Limit: Discussion/Help/Testing Needed

Discussion in '3DS - Flashcards & Custom Firmwares' started by drfsupercenter, Mar 15, 2016.

  1. drfsupercenter
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    drfsupercenter Flash Cart Aficionado

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    Hey guys,

    Making a new thread based on my post here.

    I've been hoping Nintendo would do this themselves (Sony did it with the Vita!), waiting and waiting and waiting, I've been at the 300 limit ever since about 9.5 was current, and ever since any time I want to buy something new I have to keep deleting games. It's infuriating. I'm not even talking about piracy - I just buy a lot of 3DSWare and other cheap things, plus I have about 60 demos too (no new ones, can't afford to waste the space.)

    But given that these updates are just "stability" and there's still no 11.0 (and even when there is, what are the odds it'll raise the game limit?) I figured it's time we take matters into our own hands. Now that we have a9lh and a way to easily load emuNAND, there's really no reason not to start messing with system files - especially on emuNAND, if it results in a brick we can just restore the backup.

    Unfortunately, this is going to be very complicated and I'll need all the help and testing I can get. That magical 300 (0x12C) is ingrained deeply in lots of firmware files, at the very least the Home Menu (0004003000008F02). I made some xorpads and extracted the contents, but sadly the number still appears many times in the code so it's not a simple "replace 0x12C with a larger number".

    I'd need to find somebody who understands 3DS opcode. If you do, PM me and I can give you the code.bin to look at (if you can't get it yourself)

    It probably appears in other system applets too. This is where I'm hoping some other minds can get together and try to figure out where.

    A couple other things I'm musing about but don't have the means to test:
    • If you do have 300 things installed, and you open the eShop, attempting to download anything else will pop up a screen saying "You're out of space on the home menu, click here to go to Data Management and make some room!"

      What title ID is it that displays that message? Probably easy to find out using NTR Debugger or something similar, but I don't know how to do it.
    • This problem is not tied to the eShop, hence the above bullet point. As I mentioned in the other thread, if you use a CIA installer (tried both DevMenu and FBI) to install a program #301, a random title (for me it's one of the "3D Classic" Genesis games) will be removed from the home menu in order to display the newest title. The files are still on your SD and technically it should be possible to launch it using FBI, but the home menu itself will act as if it's not installed. As soon as you remove program #301, the home menu shows "new title installed!" and the old one that disappeared appears as a wrapped present for you to unwrap.

      This is further proof that it's the home menu itself imposing this limit and not anything in firm0/firm1. The system will function fine with >300 titles installed, and as far as I know they will still show as installed in a CIA manager, you just cannot launch it *directly* from the home menu.

      I will test this one myself using HANS and FBI to see if I can indeed load the missing title(s)

    If you'd like to help, just go on the eShop and start downloading demos. There are over 100 of them now. You should be able to get close to 300 without spending a cent. Then you can use a CIA installer for the rest ;)
    (Just for sanity's sake, leave at least one free program un-downloaded until you hit the limit, so you can see what happens when you DO hit the limit)

    I'm sure 99% of you don't care about this, but it's a serious design flaw in the 3DS and it's been pissing me (and others) off for months. A friend of mine found a Japanese interview with some Nintendo engineers who said that limit was intentional "so that it would always run smoothly" so I doubt they have any incentive to patch it, even though it's literally costing them money (can't buy new games without deleting old ones...)
    And let me add, that's the same stupid mentality as "having less icons on your desktop makes Windows run faster"... completely unfounded and untrue, but a popular belief nonetheless.

    Edit: Confirmed that both HANS and FBI are able to launch the "missing title" that the Home Menu hides when I install a #301. For some reason - for me, that's Excitebike 3D Classics, title ID 0004000000054300
    Not sure what the significance of this is, but yeah. So this itself should prove that the 3DS can run perfectly stable with >300 titles, you just won't be able to see them all on the home menu due to its arbitrary limit.
     
    Last edited by drfsupercenter, Mar 15, 2016


  2. nolimits59

    nolimits59 GBAtemp Fan

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    EDIT: misunderstood the topic sry :D
     
    Last edited by nolimits59, Mar 15, 2016
  3. Edgarska

    Edgarska GBAtemp Fan

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    While that is untrue in desktops, wouldn't the 3DS take longer to load over 300 titles? Like when you press home while in a game, though in this case it wouldn't be so much the system being less responsive, as it would just take slightly longer to load the icons.

    Anyway, regarding the topic, it would be nice to see it happen, though it probably won't affect me until I buy a bigger card.
     
  4. drfsupercenter
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    drfsupercenter Flash Cart Aficionado

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    Folders. Use them. :P

    I don't think it loads all the icons upon loading the home menu, only the ones shown in the current folder. Because I have a "Retail Games" folder that still has to load icons every time I open it if I'm not already playing a game from that folder.

    And yeah, I was afraid a lot of people might think this is pointless. But if you're a heavy 3DS user and download lots of games (legally or not) it's totally possible to hit the limit. For example, there are 987 purchase-able titles in the USA eShop (not counting DSiWare). That's more than 3 times that 300! And this doesn't count titles which have been de-listed, such as Pokédex 3D (the free one). So there's almost 1000 unique titles you can have installed at any given time - and this isn't counting the demos!
     
    Last edited by drfsupercenter, Mar 15, 2016
  5. Edgarska

    Edgarska GBAtemp Fan

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    Right, I thought it loaded everything, but now that I remember, it only does that after closing SSB, and that's probably because it's basically rebooting the system.

    And I wasn't really saying it's pointless, though even if it were, I think sometimes pointless things can be done just because.
     
  6. drfsupercenter
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    drfsupercenter Flash Cart Aficionado

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    Well actually I'm not sure. A friend said that he thinks it does load everything, even though it's not *displaying* the icons. But I do know that it has to display them all and upon opening a folder immediately after boot it loads them after the ones not in folders.

    Either way, especially on N3DS, I'm sure it can handle more than 300. For O3DS, maybe it's not much higher, but N3DS has double the RAM so if anything it should be able to display 600 icons just as easily as an O3DS does 300. At the very least.
     
  7. Marko76

    Marko76 GBAtemp Psycho!

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    Anyone that has problems with the 300 game limit has a severe case of what I like to call DOWNLOADAMANIA IE it's free so I must no matter what download it and install even if 90% of what I install will probably never be played more than a few times its totally pointless you are all better off having say round about 100 or so games installed and when you get bored of some of them remove them and put a new game on. And keep all your cia files on your PC that way if you do remove a game and want to play it in the future just reinstall the cia. Let's look at it another way so for instance you get a new girlfriend/boyfriend would you go out and buy 300 condoms and expect to have use for them all at the one time?? No you would not (if you did though have found the right person lol) no you would buy what you need and probably a few extra just in case you need them why should it be any different for the 3ds you install what you will play plus mabye a few extra games then when you are done with them you can delete them and put some new games on. The other problem is some people are never happy say someone does manage to increase the 300 limit to say 600 then someone will bitch and say 600 is not enough I need 900 that is what is going to happen and like I said nobody needs 300 games as you will never play them all on a continuous basis so remove some that you don't play then in future if you do then want to play them install them then. Or the really easy solution would be to just set up emunand on another sd card and problem solved access to space for another 300 games. The main problem with this world is people try to come up with solutions for problems that have already been fixed with by either using common sense or other means like I have said either delete stuff that is not used or use another sd card PROBLEM SOLVED.
     
    Last edited by Marko76, Mar 15, 2016
  8. Edgarska

    Edgarska GBAtemp Fan

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    Right, but this thread isn't about whether you think there's a point in it, it's about helping remove that limit.
     
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  9. Marko76

    Marko76 GBAtemp Psycho!

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    Yes but there is already solutions to the limit out there.
     
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  10. Edgarska

    Edgarska GBAtemp Fan

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    No, there are workarounds.
     
  11. Marko76

    Marko76 GBAtemp Psycho!

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    So say we do come up with a way to remove the limit I guarantee you it would just be a temporary fix because as soon as the next update comes out nintendo will patch that solution so you would be left with the option of not updating emunand and loosing out on online or eshop access ect or updating and loosing out on any games you have over the 300 limit?
     
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  12. Edgarska

    Edgarska GBAtemp Fan

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    What does that have to do with anything?
     
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  13. Marko76

    Marko76 GBAtemp Psycho!

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    It has everything to do with it as it would only be a temporary solution rather than looking at changing things on fireware to increase the 300 limit we should be looking at making changes to cfw to patch out the limit that way Nintendo can't block the changes with updates ect
     
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  14. Edgarska

    Edgarska GBAtemp Fan

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    The topic doesn't seem to be specifically about patching it in the official firmware, it's about any way to patch the limit, but it's assuming that the firmware needs to be patched and it's nothing that cfw can do by itself. Though that would be the best way to do it, yes.
     
  15. kiwiis

    kiwiis キウィイス

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    I don't think I'll ever experience this issue myself, but I still look forward to seeing how this progresses.
     
    Last edited by kiwiis, Mar 15, 2016
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  16. Urbanshadow

    Urbanshadow GBAtemp Maniac

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    I've have been at the assembler code of some system titles lately. You have to at least barely know what are you looking for. Looking for "300" wont help, as probably the code used is not "if(installed titles <= 300) then install". Most probably is tied to multiple things like ticket.db indexing and whatnot.

    And you need a cfw to patch this. just saying.
     
  17. drfsupercenter
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    drfsupercenter Flash Cart Aficionado

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    Updated my original post with the results of my testing with a 301st title.

    @Marko76, the whole point is that if we figure out where the limit is and how to patch it, every time there's a new update we can just do the same change to it.

    And yes, I know you need CFW, but basically any method of loading an emuNAND qualifies as CFW anyway...
     
  18. Arubaro

    Arubaro Soulspace Guardian

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    Do dlcs and game updates count?
    What about Badge Arcade's badges?
     
  19. drfsupercenter
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    drfsupercenter Flash Cart Aficionado

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    DLC and updates do not count. Neither do badges.
     
  20. julialy

    julialy Homebrewer

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    I have over 1TB of 3DS games... it would be nice to be able to load all of them at my fingertips once 2TB SD cards come out :-)

    I think there should be a better way to search for games to run, like instead of scrolling through the home menu (which might have TONS of games), you can just type a few letters of the game you want then choose the game you want
     
    Last edited by julialy, Mar 15, 2016