NUS Legal

Discussion in 'Wii U - Hacking & Backup Loaders' started by Ledbylight, Jun 21, 2017.

  1. Ledbylight
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    Ledbylight Advanced Member

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    Ok, wanting to ask all about their thoughts on NUS downloaders (I'm looking at Wii U USB Helper). I have provided my own tickets, how would this compare to say dumping my copies from the Wii U (of course, I had to dump them to get the tickets)? My specific question is whether anyone thinks this is legal or not. I'm in the US. Thanks!
     
  2. Kafluke

    Kafluke GBAtemp Psycho!

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    Ahhh here's that button labeled "open" on Pandora' s box that I've been looking for!

    In all seriousness, it's the age old classic debate of whether or not you can own a digital copy of something you own. There's legal cases on both sides of the debate
     
  3. TheCyberQuake

    TheCyberQuake Certified Geek

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    Based on the supreme court decision saying consoles we purchase are actually our own property for us to use and modify freely, I'm starting to see a trend moving toward the consumer owning what they pay for. I hope to see a time with this also includes digital content.
     
    Last edited by TheCyberQuake, Jun 21, 2017
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  4. Ledbylight
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    Ledbylight Advanced Member

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    So is this leaning towards a "legal" side?
     
  5. TheCyberQuake

    TheCyberQuake Certified Geek

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    Just downloading the files from nus is technically legal (though more of a legal gray area) , it's when you add a ticket obtained elsewhere and install to your system that it becomes
     
  6. Ledbylight
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    Ledbylight Advanced Member

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    I dumped my disc based games using disc2app and put the tickets into Wii U USB Helper (I dupmed my digital ones with ddd, then repacked with NUS packer, then put the tickets in). So would that be legal? EDIT: I guess there is no clear answer, but would this be clearly breaking a law? Or is it one of those "the court hasn't decided things"?
     
    Last edited by Ledbylight, Jun 21, 2017
  7. Felek666

    Felek666 Archdemon | #AMDForever

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    No, it's totally illegal, you're now on wanted list,. Quickly, escape to Mars!!1111
    It's not illegal imo, you're just downloading games off a verified server and they allow you to so why not?
    Disc2App creates disc backups for your own personal use, FBI/NASA will not send a nuke on you because you're dumping discs for your own use.
     
  8. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    Theft of services and services by deception would probably be the charges (in the US anyway) that would be levelled at you if they tried.
    If I point by web spider at say ebay or amazon and tell it to download all the prices it would get tricky, if I strain their network in doing so then I very much risk getting slapped despite being able to open my browser and click all I please.
    This has a bit more


    Similar things can happen if you steal wifi. As Nintendo's bandwidth is presumably not unlimited, either in volume transfer or how fat the pipe is, you could theoretically be doing something to trouble that. This applies even more if there is some kind of wii u side throttling that your modded gear does not respond to.

    You may also be breaching terms of service if they state they will allow you to download for as long as the practically can, however it should be from a/your system which is within their parameters (presumably then no unauthorised modifications). Alternatively they may use terms of service/terms of access to subsequently make it theft of services/obtaining services by deception.

    As far as copyright is concerned if you own the game at the time of download, don't share it and said downloads don't subsequently see you to play more than one copy at once (though that could be a separate thing) then you are probably in the clear. The theft of services thing though is very real, granted I have not seen it for anything like this yet and we have had downloading from official services since at least the 360 (you could get XBLA games as demos from official services and crack them trivially, many did).
    While I said wifi above you would be unlucky to get stung like that if your neighbour had wep, which for those unfamiliar can be broken in seconds by consumer hardware, or something and you walked through it (open wifi has tricky legal status and in some places may itself be illegal), however if I went and shoved my server in someone else's rack I would probably get done there for bandwidth and electricity.
     
  9. Ledbylight
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    Ledbylight Advanced Member

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    Wow that's a lot of info! Thanks! I haven't sold any of my games yet, I'm planning on keeping them. If I do though I'll make sure to securely delete my dumps ;) I don't mind breaking Nintendo's terms, so this doesn't not breach a law, correct?
     
  10. Felek666

    Felek666 Archdemon | #AMDForever

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    Your own game dumps =/= piracy
    Distributing your game dump (Selling) = piracy
    You already broke warranty of your Wii U so why tf are you worried about piracy on a dead console? Jesus christ, if you're that scared, you shouldn't even softmod your console!
     
  11. Ledbylight
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    Ledbylight Advanced Member

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    What? Lol. I get that softmodding a console is not illegal, but it can be used for illegal activity (eg. installing pirated games). I'm just wanting to get a bit of a clearer answer on the legal part of NUS downloading because I know downloading games you own from other sources (torrents) is illegal, even if you own the game. So since these are my own ticket dumps, I was asking if it would be legal. It looks y'all say it is
     
  12. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    " because I know downloading games you own from other sources (torrents) is illegal, even if you own the game."
    That has not yet been established from what I have seen, just seems to be commonly echoed around the place in such discussions.
    Torrents would probably mean uploading it as part of it all and that would fall under distribution, however the argument that simply downloading something you own a version of has not been established from what I can see. Most cases which established precedents have involved personal backups/format shifting ( https://w2.eff.org/IP/eff_fair_use_faq.php has a tiny bit more) but if they are sitting there trying to figure out how you might have harmed them (it is civil law, not law of the land, civil law is all about harm done to other parties) then that is not as clear cut -- so you owned a copy at the time, it is the same as your copy, the owner did not pay anything to distribute it to you, you did not distribute it as part of obtaining it... hard to see where the copyright owner lost out there.

    Likewise softmodding a console, depending upon how it is sold/made/used anyway, may be unlawful in some capacity. The US has a horrible piece of law called the DMCA and that prevents people from bypassing software protections in devices, though there are an increasing number of exemptions ( https://library.osu.edu/blogs/copyright/2015/12/30/new-dmca-exemptions/ ). As far as I can see said exemptions are quite narrow (everything there sounds like an embedded device, I might employ someone different to make the UI but the underlying stuff I would employ the same person to do) and do not include game consoles as they are typically defined, if said console was like the PS2 and PS3 and came with Linux or something to make it a general purpose computer (usually then attracting a different tax rate) then that may be different. Certainly mod chips and flash carts seem to get smacked down time and time again in the courts, and softmod or not has little bearing on any of that.

    Re "so this doesn't not breach a law, correct?"
    I don't know, the thing with the bandwidth and the cost of services for that would be the legal side of things I look at. If they can demonstrate you accessed their servers/services without authorisation, possibly even bypassing a protection (presenting it with the ticket is functionally not a lot different to using an authentication token incorrectly) and downloaded a file, thus costing them bandwidth, it could probably be argued you cost them the bandwidth. That is thus "obtained services by deception" or simple "theft of services", hence my mentioning those in the opening of that. If Nintendo provide such an option for you moving to a new console, or deleting it to restore later when you have more storage then investigating this is rather more tricky so there is also that.
     
  13. Ledbylight
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    Ledbylight Advanced Member

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    Oh I understand the bandwidth thing now! I will skip using NUS downloaders until I have to (which should hopefully be never). It'd be fine to store my dumps in Google Drive/Onedrive, no? Thanks though!
     
    Last edited by Ledbylight, Jun 22, 2017
  14. Ryccardo

    Ryccardo WiiUaboo

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    You don't need a ticket to download the main content files; they're on a publicly facing server for everyone to download without passing any special headers/cookies, there's not even security by obscurity since there's no HTTPS and so literally anyone in the path can see the addresses :)

    (and let's not get into the biggest scam of the century - making people pay for transferred bytes)
     
  15. Ledbylight
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    Ledbylight Advanced Member

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    Lol! Are you talking about stuff such as Wii IOS's?