New dashboard

Discussion in 'Xbox 360 - Games & Content' started by Digeman, Nov 8, 2010.

Nov 8, 2010

New dashboard by Digeman at 1:11 AM (5,133 Views / 0 Likes) 27 replies

  1. Digeman
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    Member Digeman GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Hey guys, well i've been doing some reading and it seems that there is a new dashboard update for the 360. I have as of yet not updated my 360 (it beeing flashed and all). I've also heard that all kinect games are a new wave 7. This beeing said there are some questions (which probably are very easy to answer).

    So first of, is it okey to update to the new dashboard as long as all old games are burned correctly?

    Does abgx show if a game in fact is wave 7? And i presume that these games are less safe to play.

    Which games do have the wave 7 thingie?

    If i buy an original copy of for instance dance central (which is prolly wave 7) and play it is that okey? Like is playing my old wave 4,5,6 games on the new firmware dangerous?

    Should this topic be on the new ask gbatemp section? xD

    No more questions as of now but there'll probably be more, i think many of these questions are what all noobs are thinking so hope we get answers to save us from our ignorance =D !

    Oh and the 360 has the latest flash (i think atleast xD)
     


  2. FAST6191

    Reporter FAST6191 Techromancer

    pip
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    Waves in an of themselves should not trouble LT or 1.6NS but you might have some issues courtesy of the following-

    The new dash brought some checks with it, these were dubbed AP25 and are counteracted by SSv3 (a new iteration of the stealth sectors*) and LT+ (the hacked DVD drive firmware) that latter of which has not been released yet (or even entered testing as far as I have read although proof of concept has been done).
    However Samsung and some hitachi (not sure exact models) are unable to do these new checks (hardware/firmware is not capable) so those are safe. Benq and liteon are a different matter and will need LT+.
    Splitvid is still mandatory for LT and subsequent firmwares.

    *I am sure you know what goes here (just as a quick one MS masters discs "badly" which the hacked firmware and iso/ripper join forces to emulate) but thus far there have been three main types (this SSv3 makes the fourth). SSv1 was kreon drives, SSv2 was post 1.6 0800 firmware and while it appears as SSv1 pre 1.6 0800 firmware did SSv2 grade. SSv2 (or the proper version of SSv1) became highly suggested with the release of LT but this SSv3 is the first mandatory SS version to have appeared.

    This is nothing to do with wave7 (indeed fable 3 which was the first to sport these checks is still wave 6) so if you can avoid updating then these new checks will not be there (they are a function of the dash) and you can carry on as usual.

    ABGX360 has now been updated for this wave 7 and SSv3 stuff.
    http://abgx360.net/

    Wave7 was first seen in Hasbro_Family_Game_Night_3_READNFO_WAVE_7_USA_RF-XBOX360-RRoD and contained the 9199 dash (not the new kinect dash).
    Apparently kinect games also feature this wave 7 dash which is a shocker (it is below the below the minimum required dash for kinect which is odd given the whole point of waves is to allow your machine to be the necessary update level to work).
    I am sure we will be seeing wave 8 in the next week or two featuring the kinect dash (Left 4 dead 2 was the only wave 5 game and in older new waves we had a few stragglers with regards to date of mastering).

    Old games- AP25 is a program thing and while it is theoretically possible for them to be added in a title update that has not happened yet (I have no idea if it will- if it is then a new burn will be needed with SSv3 or for you to keep title updates pre AP25 which will be tricky if you are rocking a Live console). As it stands if they were safe before they are safe now unless your game has AP25 (Fable 3 does, I am not sure where it stands for other titles).

    Just to round it off you might have seen a drive swapping mod/method- it might work but it is not safe.
     
  3. Digeman
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    Member Digeman GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Alright so what you're saying is only the newer games (such as fable 3) must have the mandatory ssv3 and the LT+ method to be "safe" to go online with. And the wave 7,8 and so on, only prohibit you from playing the actual game rather than banning you from live?

    But then it should be pretty safe when updating the 360 now and also when buying kinect, dance central, and to play them and still beeing able to play the old burned games (and fairly new fallout new vegas for instance) without beeing in too much trouble?

    Sorry if i still seem nooby, the text was kind of hard to undersdand (not because of the language but more that i actually think this kind of stuff is confusing as hell xD)
     
  4. FAST6191

    Reporter FAST6191 Techromancer

    pip
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    Some background
    To work the hacked DVD firmware has to not only tell the DVD drive to accept burned DVDs but also emulate all the various checks MS added in along the way that are impossible to burn using conventional equipment. One of the big ones are the security sectors which are included in a file and passed by the hacked firmware to the 360 to make it think it is a real game.

    Waves:
    Waves are just what update gets bundled with the game (this should work to make sure all games have the minimum required dashboard version to function). New update- new checksum and so new a new wave.
    Historically this caused some issues as new waves read as corrupt/nonstealth discs to the basic checks the hacked firmware did which then stopped them from running. LT and 1.6NS and the last Hitachi firmware did away with wave checks though (it gets a bit more complex but I will spare the history lesson for now)- waves should never again trouble the 360 scene.

    The current situation
    Wave7 just so happened to correspond fairly well time wise to the release of a new protection called AP25. I am not sure of the technical details (probably another timing/angles type thing seen as we have to have a new version of the SS format) that runs as you start a game (this is why swapping the disc can bypass it).

    AP25 requires serveral things to work

    1) Games have to know about it/have it built in (like Fable 3), discs are read only but title updates exist so they might live to see AP25 in older games. Check back though for more on that (indeed if it does appear I will PM you if you want).

    2) A DVD drive capable of doing performing the new check (the benq and liteon drives, equally you can not spoof an old samsung in there and hope to be safe*)

    3) The dashboard has to have the AP25 function programmed into it (kinect dashboard and a few betas of it, older versions of the dashboard are not troubled by AP25 as it is not a function available to them).

    *if I you are going to ask safe is one thing what about working I have no idea. Equally if you are going to say keyvault level spoofing you are reading the wrong thread.

    If it is missing any of those three then AP25 will not work and you can carry on using LT and playing it safe (using ABGX360 or something like that) as you usually would.
    It is by no means a definitive "shut down the 360 scene" type check but more of a minor annoyance (I will leave the why this approach debate to others).
    However aside from the DVD drive which varies with your hardware you have little control over 1) (without a JTAG machine you can not change games remember) and 3) (assuming you want kinect, eventually other new games and xbox live to work, assuming you can live without kinect and xbox live just stay on the 9199 dash or earlier for now). Once LT+ and SSv3 arrives AP25 is a thing of the past.

    Until then should you fall foul of AP25 then you will probably get hit in the next banwave (a bit late this year but there is still some time to go).

    Quickfire questions
    Retail games- yay or nay?
    Retail games will be treated by the hacked firmware like a stock drive would so they are always safe to use (someone might mention jitter but that is just one of the theories that get passed around in these sorts of threads).

    Fable 3- what goes?
    Fable 3 can run on these old dashboards but for newer ones both to work and be safe for live it needs LT+ and SSv3 or an AP25 incapable drive.

    Newer games?
    Not all new games have it at this stage in time although I expect that will change as time goes on- fable 3 is the one that had it first.

    Waves?
    Issues with waves are a thing of the past. Only those stuck on really old hacked firmwares need to worry about them. Similarly you should never wave patch a game and never accept a game that has been wavepatched.

    I think that covers everything.
     
  5. purplesludge

    Member purplesludge anyone have any ideas for this space

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    Does that mean if I don't update my dash I will be able to play new games?
    I am confused because Fable 3 has the update and can be played?
    I don't plan on using this xbox for live or kinect so those don't matter to me.
     
  6. FAST6191

    Reporter FAST6191 Techromancer

    pip
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    When an iso comes with the proper wave it should correspond to the minimum dashboard update required by the console for the game to work (nothing you can do about this).
    Wave patching only helped for those whose hacked firmwares did not like newer waves (you probably still had to update by USB or DVD or some other method to use them).

    At this point in time wave 7 is the highest numbered wave the first of which was Hasbro_Family_Game_Night_3_READNFO_WAVE_7_USA_RF-XBOX360-RRoD which came with the 9199 dash that we have had for months now (it was the last one before kinect).
    When we jump to wave 8 (the kinect dash or a successor to it) is not my place to guess (I would say sooner rather than later though).

    To this end assuming kinect does not matter all known games at this moment in time will work with the 9199 dash.
    Most games (I have no idea if we have seen more than one wave 7 game yet) will work on even older dashboards than that.

    AP25 only confuses things by having some new games now work on the new kinect dash thanks to it having the required code embedded in it to perform AP25 checks. This means certain games that have these AP25 checks built in worked on earlier dashboards (like 9199) but until AP25 is bypassed (by the upcoming LT+ hacked DVD firmware*) it will not work on the kinect dash.

    *or you have a hitachi or samsung drive.

    Long story short at this moment in time all known non-kinect games can be played on the 9199 dash without you being troubled by AP25. Aside from that hasbro family game night game all the other games can be played on even earlier dashboards.

    Should you update to the kinect dash (or one of the betas for it) you will not be able to play games with AP25 unless you update to LT+, you have a hitachi or samsung drive or do that dodgy disc swapping "trick".
     
  7. Excellentnuke

    Member Excellentnuke GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Sorry, but I just read through this and I'm a little confused. If I have the latest dash, and I flash my DVD drive, for the moment, I can play everything but newer games, right? This is assuming I have a Samsung or Hitachi drive.
     
  8. FAST6191

    Reporter FAST6191 Techromancer

    pip
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    The following is assuming you have the latest dash.

    The samsung and hitachi are immune to the new checks (the original firmware on the drives can not perform the AP25 checks) and can carry on regardless.
    The liteon and benq which are nowadays probably the most common and the ones in all new 360s for several years now (the first liteon appeared in April 2008 with the benq being the previous drive that appeared about a year before that) are not immune and will need updates to the hacked firmware if you want to use them with AP25 games.

    "newer games"- not necessarily this but only those with AP25 (I do not know if it is still only Fable 3). While it might come to mean new games there are still games coming out that do not have it.
     
  9. Namcom

    Newcomer Namcom Member

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    Does anyone know if the activate.iso will be useable on the new dashboard?
     
  10. FAST6191

    Reporter FAST6191 Techromancer

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    I doubt they have blocked it (not that they really could assuming the hacked firmware developers did it properly). It will not help you with AP25 though.
     
  11. purplesludge

    Member purplesludge anyone have any ideas for this space

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    So if I have a Samsung drive Fable 3 would work on the new dash and any other game with AP25 would work on the new dash?
     
  12. Crass

    Member Crass Rock me Dr. Zaius

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    I love my crappy old Hitachi flashed with 1.51. Never had to bugger around with any of this crap.
     
  13. FAST6191

    Reporter FAST6191 Techromancer

    pip
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    Yeah aside from the bricking by flashing thing and the many minor variations hitachi's are awesome when flashed.

    Back on topic Correct purplesludge- the samsung drive is incapable or performing the AP25 checks and as such your system is immune to them.
     
  14. Agjsdfd

    Member Agjsdfd My title

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    I have Benq LT 1.1 and I am on old Dashboard.
    I want to buy original copy of Black ops to play on live, is that going to be problem if it updates the dashboard?
     
  15. Namcom

    Newcomer Namcom Member

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    Would you mind explaining what AP25 is?
    Say for example that I install the new dashboard and that I want to play Assassins Creed 2 (one of the first Wave 4 games), could I still use the activate.ISO disk to do this?
    I'm on iXtreme 1.6.4
     
  16. FAST6191

    Reporter FAST6191 Techromancer

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    @Agjsdfd original discs are fine (not to mention black ops does not have it)- it is only the games with AP25 that you have are playing from a burned disc with a AP25 capable DVD drive on the newest dash that will cause trouble.

    @Namcom I already took AP25 in the earlier posts in short though it is a new check some games have (Fable being the first) and nothing to do with waves, what I sense I need to explain is what activate.iso is.

    activate.iso was made by the same people that made the hacked firmware for your DVD drive. When it first launches it checks to see what is in there with three possible outcomes

    1) activate.iso burned to a disc- this will disable stalling the whole disc reading process if it fails a checks (including wave checks which were causing valid discs not to be read due to a bug in those checks).
    1.6NS was a tweaked version to make it think this was always the case thus dodging the problems. LT removed these checks entirely.
    As AP25 is not an onboard check from the drive added by the firmware hackers but one the dashboard does this activate.iso will do nothing to prevent it from doing what it does.

    2) a retail disc- in this case it will play as if it was the stock firmware.

    3) a burned disc- in this case it will jump to the burned disc code and make it appear to the 360 as though it is a retail disc (allowing you to play your copied games).

    To answer your question all your existing games will be fine (although you will still have to carry on using the activate.iso disc if you are still going to use that firmware) unless MS decide to add AP25 checks to title updates (in which case you will have to delete said updates).
     
  17. Robj1969

    Newcomer Robj1969 Member

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    how would you delete these updates?
     
  18. FAST6191

    Reporter FAST6191 Techromancer

    pip
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    If you lack hard drive access then http://vgstrategies.about.com/od/xbox360fa...arX360Cache.htm
    If you have hard drive access then find the file in the cache directory of partition 3- the main/big one and delete said updates.
    If you are using a USB drive adjusted for 360 use then use xtaf and delete them the from the cache directory.
     
  19. Namcom

    Newcomer Namcom Member

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    So AP25 only affects Wave 7 games?
    Would you recomend me to update FAST6191 or to stay put on regular NXE?
     
  20. FAST6191

    Reporter FAST6191 Techromancer

    pip
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    Wave and AP25 have nothing to do with each other- it is just a coincidence that they arrived about the same time (indeed Fable 3 which has AP25 is wave 6).

    Alas last night we saw the release of Assassins Creed Brotherhood which has AP25 and is wave 8 or 9 (not sure which) which means if you try to use it you will be updated to the kinect dash and AP25 becomes an issue. It also means most games from now on probably will be the kinect dash (not that there are many releases for the rest of the year- hopefully enough time for LT+ to arrive).

    To answer your question- do not update as you gain nothing for it.
     

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