Key Hypocrisy

Discussion in 'Switch - Exploits, Custom Firmwares & Soft Mods' started by blawar, Mar 18, 2019.

  1. blawar
    OP

    blawar GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Whether a prosecutor decides to charge you or not, does not make what you did any less illegal. You are trying to defend open source software violating copyrights, while shitting on TX for doing the same. Atmosphere is 100% illegal, end of story. Whether Nintendo will ever decide to sue them is a different matter.
     
  2. blahblah

    blahblah GBAtemp Maniac

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    No matter how many times you say it, it remains untrue.
     
  3. blawar
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    blawar GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Citation needed. The link it not why google takes the content down, its for posting copyrighted blurbs with the link.
     
  4. blahblah

    blahblah GBAtemp Maniac

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  5. iriez

    iriez GBAtemp Fan

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    what ultimately determines whether a action was legal or illegal is the judicial ruling. Whether or not a prosecutor indicts you is irrelevant in determining whether your actions are legal or illegal.

    I have already posted a link in the first page of this discussion to the eff which includes Court precedent on previous judicial rulings which validate the legality of atmosphere using reverse engineering. Simon also replied with specific context related to that reverse engineering, e.g. fair use case.

    Saying something doesn't make it true. You keep saying it's illegal but no argument you've made so far seems to be true, e.g. you've not presented any evidence to support your claim.

    So until you provide specific judicial rulings on scenarios similar enough to this we won't be able to narrow the gap on our disagreement here.
     
  6. ghjfdtg

    ghjfdtg GBAtemp Fan

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    So you are bitching about keys when there is actual real and proven copyright infringement in SX OS (certs and stolen code)? I can't speak for Atmosphere but SX OS can't be any more llegal than it is and the keys will not change the situation.
     
  7. bottmint

    bottmint Advanced Member

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    Let's not forget that blawar had 2 of his repositories taken down for DMCA violations. He's an expert on DMCAs. :toot:
     
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  8. hippy dave
    This message by hippy dave has been removed from public view by linuxares, Mar 18, 2019, Reason: Please don't attack other users.
    Mar 18, 2019
  9. Tilde88

    Tilde88 GBAtemp Regular

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    Here's an idea.


    Everyone shut the hell.up, and make a new forum. Go type all your bs in the sub forum. Leave this one for, idk, development?

    Use PMs, use email, use fax. Use whatever the hell you want. Just everyone shut the crap, and o ly tall dev talk here ffs.

    Every thread is either "help me I bricked and ignored backup" , or "help me I've read nothing, will read nothing, do everything for me", or "sx OS is bad I cant believe them" or "atmos is unfinished so it's bad, I cant believe them".

    I remember when gbatemp was reputable. As of the last 2 years, I question why I keep coming here. Almost nothing of use is actually done or discussed here anymore.

    Gross.
     
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  10. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    But for the names I recall the same claims being made as far back as the late GBA era, and could probably go further but for the fact I was not here for it. Oh when it was just gateway and whatever else, now we have emulators and custom firmwares, oh all these R4 clones I remember when it was original R4/M3, EZFlash and Supercard and the only emulator was Ensata which nobody used,... technically top form GBA emulators existed from about day 0 thanks to info leaking beforehand but similar claims about the closeness and fun when it was not all flash carts that could store more than 4 ROMs at once and required a fair amount of fiddling or knowledge of third party tools to get working properly.

    Similarly I would say this is something of a developer topic. Or is a discussion of the logic and rationale of what you are allowed to include (based mostly on risk aversion levels to lawsuits) should you wish to link or host various things on the site (one of the bigger discussion forums for it anywhere, one in which many or maybe most projects keep or have maintained guides and news threads) somehow now a developer issue?
     
  11. chrisrlink

    chrisrlink Intel Pentium III Hamster inside

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    inside your crappy old PC
    afaik that was a DMCA Abuse instance he even posted the letter showing a "Xortroll industries" as making the claim hmmmmm do we know of any user with that name? sounds familiar
     
  12. linuxares

    linuxares I'm not a generous god!

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    Xortroll have already denied that claim. He was asleep when it happened. Also a user on a Discord took the credit for DMCA the githubs. I'm confused if they still haven't gone up.
     
  13. bottmint

    bottmint Advanced Member

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    Still down due to DMCA according to github.
     
  14. linuxares

    linuxares I'm not a generous god!

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    oh ffs... @blawar did you file a counter claim yet?
     
  15. blawar
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    blawar GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    I filed a counter-claim when it happened. And I emailed them about it friday, no response. Github support is just shit. I actually filed the counter-notice before they even took down the repos.
     
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  16. linuxares

    linuxares I'm not a generous god!

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    SIGH!... I hope they return them. Unwarrented DMCAs aren't okey!
     
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  17. smf

    smf GBAtemp Psycho!

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    No. It's illegal under the DMCA, they made an explicit allowance for phones but purposefully decided against making an exception for consoles. At least Kosmos and ReiNX are also illegal, under the DMCA.

    EUCD is more complicated as there are slightly different laws implemented in each country and AFAIK nothing has been tested for phones, but it was tested for flash carts and there have been lots of sellers who have lost court cases bought by nintendo.

    Console hacking is not one of those conditions as it's seen as a huge can of worms by the courts, the eff have been fighting for it to be but have not been succesfull.

    https://www.eff.org/pages/jailbreaking-not-crime-tell-copyright-office-free-your-devices

    Technically you can reverse engineer it, but telling anyone how to bypass controls is not allowed.

    https://www.eff.org/issues/dmca-rulemaking

    I find it ironic that console hackers stayed on github after microsoft bought it.

    It would be heard as a civil case, they wouldn't be prosecuting. The bar is much lower, you only need to be 51% sure.

    The intent would likely limit damages, but it's hard for anyone to argue they weren't aware that atmosphere was being used for piracy whether that was intentional or not as there are plenty of people here that are openly using it as such. As far as I know SciresM intended to write atmosphere and intended to release it on github.

    You'll struggle like someone saying "I just closed my eyes and pushed my foot hard on the accelerator but I never meant to hurt anyone."

    TX are on dodgier ground as they are profiting from it & their links to stargate (which claims to be down for maintenance...)

    The DMCA doesn't care about difficulties in re-implementing modules without permission no matter how unfair you think that is.
     
    Last edited by smf, Mar 18, 2019
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  18. chrisrlink

    chrisrlink Intel Pentium III Hamster inside

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    inside your crappy old PC
    I think their illegal too can carry a fine iirc
     
  19. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    The reality of that is rather different.

    The various DMCA claims are stuck on https://lumendatabase.org/

    Do a search for this site if you like and see what got dropped. The entire time I have followed this sort of thing I have seen maybe two that had any kind of legs (though even then it was dubious), or at least things you might bring in front of a judge and not be afraid to get slapped for wasting court time.

    Also I was delighted to find the other day that my user URL was in one such claim ( https://lumendatabase.org/notices/184344# , 55 on that. Modern URL schema makes it https://gbatemp.net/members/fast6191.32303/ if the redirect does not work ). I may never have got my own hate thread, much less one on another site (high fives p1ngpong again for that one), but that is something I care to hang my hat on.
     
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  20. gizmomelb

    gizmomelb GBAtemp Advanced Fan

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    Nice @iriez openly stating China is not civilised. There's a few thousand years of history and a few billion people who beg to differ.

    As for China not recognising USA copyright or intellectual property laws because it suits THEM better, it's not like that country is the only one to pick and choose which international agreements it adheres to is it? Cough.. Paris agreement for climate change. Cough. USA.
     
  21. WiiUBricker

    WiiUBricker News Police

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    People seem to forget that GBAtemp is neither hosted in the US nor does the owner reside in the US and thus isn't legally bound by the DMCA (which is an american thing). Just wanted to point that out since some people tend to quick draw their DMCA guns when it comes to copyright discussion on the temp.

    Haha, that's awesome :rofl2:
     
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