Getting Power over Ethernet was a mistake

Discussion in 'Computer Hardware, Devices and Accessories' started by the_randomizer, Jul 20, 2015.

  1. the_randomizer
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    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

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    I believe that my getting a Netgear Powerline 500 Power over Ethernet was a big mistake, and well, I'm going to explain why that is. To back up a bit, I should have gotten a network card with antennas instead. My original logic to avoiding WiFi was due to the bad luck I've had with it in the past, however, at my parents house, it is more stable than any other living situation I've been in (my apartments for instance). That, and Comcast uses a dual-band router/modem box for all our networking needs. Yes, WiFi drops and does get wonky from time to time, such is the nature of it, however, my problem is more bizarre. Power over Ethernet, or POE for short, can be just as wonky, as I've been doing some research on various sites including Tom's Hardware, regarding random disconnects.

    By disconnects, I mean being unable to ping data packets to Google's IP address and back, it will tell me that it couldn't reach the host, however, the icon on the corner of the desktop never changes to "disconnected" but stays connected all the time. Running the command ipconfig or ipconfig /all shows all the correct information. The weird thing is, it's using the ipv6 protocol instead of ipv4 when I run ping tests, I don't know if that has any relevance to my issue or not, or whether or not changing Windows 7 to use ipv4 will make any difference. The thing is those who use WiFi, i.e my family members, do on occasion disconnect, but not as much as I've been. I don't know if this is related to the house's electrical system being old or if it's just a piece of crap adapter, I can't seem to find much more information.

    The threads I've found include these:

    http://superuser.com/questions/794744/tp-link-powerline-adapters-randomly-disconnect
    http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1724324/wired-internet-randomly-disconnecting.html

    Would it be more conducive to get a wireless card and not those garbage USB wireless adapters? I tried one from Asus before and it failed miserably, a wireless card with antennas would provide a more stable signal IMHO

    http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-WD...ords=wireless+network+card&tag=donations09-20

    Any help and suggestions would be appreciated ^_^


    Edit: Should I need to get a USB adapter, would this suffice?
    http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-Arche...four_browse-bin:7899513011&tag=donations09-20
     
  2. Originality

    Originality Chibi-neko

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    My experience with Powerline networking is that performance and reliability both depend on how your house is wired, the quality of the wires, and how you are using the power in your electrics. In other words, the condition of the electrical circuit between the two plugs you connect them to.
    As an example, in my house the rooms are all under one circuit, the lights are all under a different circuit, and the various utilities (boiler, fridge, etc) are all under a different circuit - all routed through a central circuitboard. This works well most of the time, but when certain devices are plugged in and out (e.g. when mum plugs in the blowdrier or when dad's laptop cable falls out), that causes minor fluctuations that can interfere with the signal. Doesn't usually cause a problem. But in my friend's house, half the lights and all rooms are under one circuit, so whenever his fridge turns on, the sudden power shift causes a big distortion in the electrics that causes a disconnect every single time (usually just 2 minutes every hour). He switched to wireless.

    Whilst the best solution is really to just get an ethernet cable routed to every room, it takes the most time and effort. Going wireless, just keep in mind that signal can deteriorate between floors and rooms. It's usually best to try and locate your access points in a central point, and depending on how your building is, having one on each floor. In the above example, my friend has 3 floors, and has the modem router in the ground floor living room, one STP cable routed through the wall, outside the building, and back in the top floor tenant's room, with a wireless access point mounted in the room. This ensures a strong connection for all tenants on each floor, but with the way the building was made, I can still get a stable connection to the AP on the top floor from the ground floor living room. He also has a UTP cable running along the ground floor ceiling through two rooms to get to the middle of the house, where another WiFi AP covers the rest of the building (it's a triangle shaped house). This cable is actually to replace the Powerline solution he tried before.

    If you can't have cables connecting each AP, you can also use WiFi repeaters and range extenders. They'll double up the latency, but relay a WiFi signal within range to the WiFi AP. I've seen one university dorm set something like that up in every 3 rooms because they wanted complete coverage but didn't want to set up an ethernet cable relay (cheap so-and-so's...).
     
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  3. the_randomizer
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    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

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    Therein lies the issue, this house was built in 1978, and while much of it has been renovated, the wiring has been relatively untouched, so much of the wiring is indeed original, and that there is a chunk of the issue I'm sure. The adapter itself is decent enough, and I do get really fast speeds (50 megabits/sec on average), the random disconnects are really starting to piss me off because they last about 60-90 seconds and they are deceiving because there never is an actual indicator that the connection is loss in the desktop icons. The computer thinks that it's always connected during the disconnect, so yeah, it's just very strange. With WiFi, the router is about two split-floors below (not true floors, split-level house), and you can get a strong signal throughout as it is dual-band, 2.4 and 5.0 GHz frequencies, drops are few and far between. Unfortunately, I can't move my PC down to where the router/modem is due to space constraints and yes, I have discussed solutions but there's just no way. That, and routing the room with Ethernet cables would just look tacky, so really, POE or WiFi are our only choices. As far as those two Amazon links I posted, would those fair any better than the POE connection, at all, since this damned thing keeps dropping at random? And no, I have to go dual band/Wireless N or Wireless AC because for my purposes, 2.4 GHz alone is not sufficient.
     
  4. Originality

    Originality Chibi-neko

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    I stopped acting like WiFi-g existed years ago. N or AC all the way.
    But yeah, how you do it still depends on the relative positions of your AP and devices. Just think, which room the AP is in, how many rooms/floors it has to go through to reach your room, and how strong the signal is in your room. A good way to test it is using a smartphone. If the signal isn't strong enough or just plain doesn't reach, then you may need a WiFi extender or an extra AP closer to your room. WiFi extenders just plug into a free cable half way between, but a better solution would be running a cable to a closer room and having another AP.

    As for the two devices you linked, the problem with PCI wireless is that even if the performance is better with three antenna, if the antenna are on the other side of your computer relative to the AP, the components of the motherboard (case, motherboard, etc) actually interfere with the signal. Ideally you want an extension to the antenna so that they sit on top of your computer, or on your desk, or wall mounted. An (expensive) example of this is the Asus PCE-AC68. As for USB WiFi, it's a really good price for an AC WiFi dongle, but I've had mixed experience with dongles and find them very hit-n-miss. One of the main problems I've had are in some computers where any time you plug a USB device in or out (e.g. flash drives), it will cause the WiFi dongle to disconnect and will take about 15 seconds to reconnect. Others may have different experiences, but I rate them at the same level as USB sound cards - poorly.
    Remember, if your router/AP is WiFi N only, WiFi AC devices will give no benefits. Also, WiFi AC (from my experience) has roughly the same range as WiFi-N.
     
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  5. the_randomizer
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    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

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    Well, I'm just north of the device, upper floor, so the other computer in this room has a nice, strong signal (my parent's PC, way weaker than mine lol), anyways, yeah, I would need to get some kind of antenna extension and put it on my table, no need for me to get something overpriced. But I gotta admit, something like that would reduce interference by a lot for sure, that price, ugh. I don't know if Comcast's dual-band router/model is wireless AC or not, I have to look at it real quick to find out, but I just need something less stressful to deal with; this POE is really starting to annoy me, but I can't help it really, since the wiring in this house is nearly forty years old :unsure:

    Do they have other PCIe cards with extended antennas?
     
  6. FAST6191

    FAST6191 Techromancer

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    Do you mean power over ethernet (as in sending power* over the ethernet cable, usually designed for security cameras, outdoor runs and industrial equipment) or ethernet over powerline where rather than drilling holes or lifting floors you try to send a network signal over the powerlines of a building? From context it looks like the latter but the words say the former. I have not done ethernet over powerline in the US and they have some very odd ideas about mains over there, especially if you have a house wired by someone that did not know what they were doing and certain devices also there.

    *unless you are doing industrial/something that really requires it then I usually say don't do it. Or if you must do the poor man's way and wire up a 100mbps cable instead which can give you some free wires to send things down.

    A bad wifi card can sink a venture, a good wifi card can make up for a lot but a good router is golden. Personally I would consider one of those but it will be considerably more expensive than dropping good money on a fancy wifi card.

    I assume you have done the usual like making sure you do not have low power transmission (also try disabling signal boost options -- they work but can do some strange things you might not expect), you are using a channel that has no neighbours also using it and so forth.
     
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  7. vayanui8

    vayanui8 GBAtemp Maniac

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    Odd, my ethernet powerline system works great, and my house is quite old.
     
  8. the_randomizer
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    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

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    Yes, I do, POE or Power over Ethernet, one adapter goes up here, I plug it from the wall to my PC's RJ-45 jack and on the floor where the router is, to the other adapter from the wall to a LAN port. The reason I had one of these is due to my distrust of WiFi and how my last two apartments had shitty WiFi, pardon my french. I can't do direct Ethernet as stated above, there is no room at all to move this to the same floor as the router/modem, to feed Ethernet through would require at least a 15-20 meter Ethernet cable, through the floor or through the AC/heater vents, which would look tacky as hell, strewn across the floor. So, yeah, POE or WiFi are my only options. i really am at a loss as to what to do, and I am admittedly, flustered over the whole lack of stability of POE.:sad:

    Details, please. Brand? Model? Manufacturer of said POE adapter? Netgear? Asus? TP-link?

    See, I'd a feeling this would happen, happens every bloody time I report an issue with something, and I happen to be the only one it happens to. I don't get it and frankly, I never should have gotten this damn thing. :( It's fast, it works, but it drops at random. I don't know why, I just have bad luck.

    Can't do Ethernet, can't do POE, I guess I have to use WiFi since POE is being a POS for me. Excuse me while I go weep in a dark corner for a while in frustration.
     
  9. vayanui8

    vayanui8 GBAtemp Maniac

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    I honestly don't have most of that information. My dad bought it years ago but never used it, eventually when I moved my PC about a year ago I took it since the router was no longer close enough for a standard ethernet cord. All I can tell you is that its a zyxel. Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
     
  10. Originality

    Originality Chibi-neko

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    Why would the cable need to be on the floor? I would just pin/punch it to the corner of the walls/ceiling. I actually had this done with the primary optical cable (phone line to optical internet) from the living room downstairs to my bedroom upstairs to have the router set up in my room. It just runs along the corners, up the wall of the stairs, and over the ceiling into my room. Sure this makes the cable longer (the mentioned cable is approx 30m), but with a cable crimper it doesn't really matter what the length is because you're making it as discreet as possible.

    Also, it's not just you. See my first post - I gave two examples of houses that experience noise on the electrics.
     
  11. the_randomizer
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    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

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    No, it's fine, it's just infuriating that the POE is being stupid and I don't know what do. No worries.

    So what should I do then in the mean time? Surely, if noise will be an issue....? Damned if I do, damned if I don't? There has to be something i can do that won't cost a lot of money, and again, the router signal is powerful, it reaches up where i am fine, so maybe I have to get an adapter.
     
  12. sarkwalvein

    sarkwalvein Professional asshole at GBATemp

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    That's not POE (Power Over Ethernet is something else).
    What you are using is called PLC (Power Line Communication), or Ethernet over Power if you want.
    POE is something used in the industry, when you have for example a device far away, and want to send data and power to it using the same -ETHERNET- line/conector.
    Normally POE uses less than 60V CC, not over 110V AC.
    To put things in a clear way:
    With PLC (or Ethernet over Power) you use the -home power line- to also send data.
    With POE you use the Ethernet data line to also send power (very little power actually).
     
  13. the_randomizer
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    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

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    Whatever the case, I am using an adapter to use Ethernet over the power line from floor 2 to floor one, to the LAN ports of the router, and as such, am seeking help. I did not want to discuss semantics here, I need help, please read the problems I've been having in the above posts I have made regarding the random connectivity issues.
     
  14. sarkwalvein

    sarkwalvein Professional asshole at GBATemp

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    Sorry... I don't think I can help you with the PLC problem as I don't have experience with it.
    I just wanted to let you know about the correct nomenclature, but please ignore the message if it was unhelpful.
    Regarding Wi-Fi, I can say I had good experience using this Hi-Gain USB Wi-Fi adapter from TP-LINK.
    I don't trust to much the Wi-Fi routers provided by ISPs, for that reason I normally buy an additional router and connect it to the modem by Ethernet (getting Wi-Fi from the extra router, and not the ISP one).
    Also, I have had mixed experience with some TP-LINK routers I have recently bought, but in the past I had this one and I got very good range and no connection problems.
     
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  15. the_randomizer
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    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

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    It's fine, I used the wrong acronym, so that was my bad. Anyways, I mean, the router/modem we have is actually working very well, and is ridiculously fast as well as responsive. I've no way to set up another router as I'd need a very long Ethernet cord, twenty meters or so and feed it through a hole or vent from the bottom floor up, not a good idea or feasible. Is that dual band, that product you linked to? That's what my router has and since it uses 2.4 and 5 GHz, that'd give more stability.
     
  16. sarkwalvein

    sarkwalvein Professional asshole at GBATemp

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    Nope, it is single band (I use it since many years ago, before dual band was... accessible).
    Perhaps you will get better performance with a newer dual-band one like this.
    I haven't tried that one, but I trust the brand.
    I suggest anyway you go with a "high gain" one with detachable antenna in any case. This had worked miracles for me.
     
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  17. the_randomizer
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    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

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    Yeah, found it on Amazon and saved to my wishlist, and it's pretty reasonably priced too http://www.amazon.com/AC600-Wireless-Adapter-802-11ac-TEW-806UBH/dp/B00KT7DY02?tag=donations09-20 on 30 dollars or so, I think when i get my check or so I'll pick one up ^_^ Thanks for the link :P
     
  18. Originality

    Originality Chibi-neko

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  19. the_randomizer
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    the_randomizer The Temp's official fox whisperer

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