Gaming FF7 Remake general discussion thread

[sarkwalvein]

Please share any opinion or comment regarding Final Fantasy in general, the original Final Fantasy 7 and specially Final Fantasy 7 Remake in this thread.
(and avoid posting them as off-topic in other threads)

Below I just post something for a first post.

On the original FF7

Regarding the original FF7, I really believe FF6 is the best final fantasy followed by FF5, such an underrated gem, and after them probably comes FF9... or FF7.

My reaction back in 1997 when I first played FF7 was something along "what an impressive game, such a good soundtrack, and those FMV and graphics, wow!".... but that was the same reaction I had back in the day to FF8. Nowadays I would say FF8 was not really good, and FF7 was a way better game.

I think FF7 was a good game actually, the music was good, level design was... meh, characters were OKish+ (worse than FF6, way better than FF8), storytelling was all over the place and the plot in general was nothing quite original but it was good. That said there always was this feeling of mystery to the plot and the idea of "there's something hidden there to find out" that was quite interesting. To be honest the whole thing was very enjoyable, but I think it was more of a "shared experience" thing, as in everybody was playing it back in 1997.

The battle system was OK, but it felt too grindy (same with FF6 TBH). I really liked the concept of materia, and summons looked great but they completely broke the flow and made battle boring after a while (FF8 was worse in this aspect). Also the battle system was so easy to break with a combination of that materia that absorbed MP + last attack + phoenix summon.

In short, it was a very nice but also very overrated JPRG of the 90s, that was very enjoyable to experience in the 90s together with everybody else as a shared social experience. It had the a influence on further FFs of making the battle system slow with lots of overworked animations that took too much time only for show. It had some good and charming characters, but some of them specially NPC felt underdeveloped, and the all over-the-place storytelling got sometimes in the way. It was a good game.

On the remake of FF7

I bought this one a couple of weeks ago, but I only had time to get to play it two days ago, so I can't say much about it up to now.

Battle-system
One year ago or so I played a demo in Gamestop, then I played the demo from the PS4 eshop, in those cases I didn't get too well with the battle system, it felt too much like button mashing.
Now I've been playing it a little more and I am starting to get used to it... I think perhaps it is not a battle system problem but a me not getting used to the battle system problem.
I also like how materia came back, but I haven't played enough to see how well does it work in the game.
I have to say the battle system feels like there's a lot of micromanagement that has to take place, and perhaps one has to get used to this, I've also heard from many people that the AI of the characters you're not directly controlling is a mess, but I still haven't experienced that.

Exploration
It's okish, but it doesn't feel so good to me. I feel too constrained, with invisible obstacles or invisible walls, and too little flexibility on how to move around... It feels outdated.
I don't know how to explain this, but perhaps I've played to much Xenoblade, Zelda BOTW, ... (put here almost any modern game) ... or I was just playing YS VIII last week, and changing from that (where I felt free to move and jump around wherever I wanted full speed) into something where I just can't jump from say a sidewalk that is a bit elevated into the streets, it feels a bit limiting, of course IMHO.

Graphics and Music
It looks awesome, and it sounds awesome. 10 out of 10. Let's move on. Oh wait, some textures are too low-res I guess (I wanted to read the details on the Loveless poster, can't do).

Storytelling and character development
I really feel the storytelling is way better than the original (up to where I have played), and the character development has improved a lot. I love how much attention many NPCs are getting.
That said I am not too much into the game yet, so probably these talks about "pacing getting awful" a tad later with many samey quests are true, but I still haven't experienced that.

In short, I still haven't played enough and although I find some flaws I the game improves quite over the original (up to now). I am enjoying it.

 

[FGFlann]

Fair Warning: There will be spoilers present in what I have to say.

My primary concerns with Final Fantasy 7 Remake are the changes to the narrative, focused mainly on the use of the ghost-like “Whisper” entities and how they needlessly convolute events as a justification for story deviation, ultimately doing more harm overall than good. To a lesser degree there are certain character moments which are changed to lessen the ambiguity of their actions from a moral standpoint. Also a few bad cases of the “Not Quite Dead” trope at the end. In this post I will focus exclusively on the Whispers.

To begin with I’ll break down what the Whispers are and how they affect the world.

Like the Lifestream, which is metaphorically the energy, or blood, of the planet, the Whispers are a means of the planet exerting control over its inhabitants; its arms and hands if you will. In the game we are told that the Whispers are “arbiters of destiny” and are guiding the characters along a pre-determined path (the events of the original FF7) and will stop any attempt to deviate from that destiny.

Thus throughout the game the Whispers are constantly inserted at key moments when characters take actions that deviate from the original narrative and temporarily hinder them until the opportunity to deviate passes. They don’t seem to be particularly good at their job as plenty of deviation has taken place in the world already but for the most part they keep things on track.

Towards the end of the game you realize this results in the main characters being effectively invulnerable from a narrative standpoint. The effort to escape from Shinra is ultimately all but guaranteed as the Whispers will prevent the main characters from being harmed and hindered by any means necessary.

One particular standout event is when the whispers prevent an overpass from collapsing on the party, allowing them to escape unscathed. At this moment you realize that the crazy motorcycle chase is just as effective as simply walking away. No matter what Cloud does, the Whispers would intervene and guarantee the safety of himself and his friends. Simply walking down the highway would be just as effective as driving down it.

Once the motorcycle chase is concluded the party chooses not to continue their journey and instead Aeris convinces them to fight against the Whispers. This serves dual purposes. From a narrative perspective this is justified as the party wishing to forge their own destiny, independent of the planet’s stewardship. In reality the purpose and ultimate irony of the Whispers becomes clear for what it is; The actual justification for story deviation.

With the Whispers defeated and the characters no longer being subject to the planet’s control, the writers have invented a situation that gives them carte blanche to take the story in any direction they choose, no matter how radically different it is from what is established. It’s all very meta.

With all this understood, the introduction and narrative purpose of these entities seems entirely cynical, a device with which to justify the actions of the writers to the detriment of the story itself. It would be less offensive to a connoisseur of fiction if the story had been different from the beginning instead of exposing the writer’s intent in this manner.

If we combine this knowledge with the instances of “Not Quite Dead”, and the premonition flashes of the major plot point in the Forgotten Capital, it seems apparent what the ultimate purpose of this narrative re-write will be: To save ‘one’ character. If this does turn out to be true it has further implications on the intent of Sakaguchi's original work and would be massively disrespectful to him. But until that comes to pass I'll save that criticism for the future.

And that’s all I have to say for the moment.

Go away now.

 

[sarkwalvein]

At this moment you realize that the crazy motorcycle chase is just as effective as simply walking away. No matter what Cloud does, the Whispers would intervene and guarantee the safety of himself and his friends. Simply walking down the highway would be just as effective as driving down it.

That sounds a like a mood killer.

In reality the purpose and ultimate irony of the Whispers becomes clear for what it is; The actual justification for story deviation

And somewhat cheap.

it seems apparent what the ultimate purpose of this narrative re-write will be: To save ‘one’ character

And before I thought your comment in the other thread was just pessimistic speculation regarding the usual trend of writers surrendering to the usual whims of fanboys to fanfic levels. PS: but I once thought SQENIX might be cash grabbing and make that happen in some "alternate-universe" DLC, not cannon.

Anyway,
I will keep playing to form my opinion on this.

 

[DANTENDO]

from what ive read i think you should just giv it up as yr to picky like cant read details on a poster lol i think you should just start another action-rpg as dont think youl like much of the game

 

[sarkwalvein]

from what ive read i think you should just giv it up as yr to picky like cant read details on a poster lol i think you should just start another action-rpg as dont think youl like much of the game

Nah, that's fan's nit-pick sure, but not important. I still think it's 10/10 graphically, don't I?
I still like the game, I have complains (because why wouldn't I), but I enjoy it nonetheless.

 

[FGFlann]

Likewise I should say that I understand my criticism may seem harsh but I do not dislike the game. It is great on many levels but by no means perfect. My particular obsession with and criticism of story and characters is because that's what I love the most.

 

[DANTENDO]

yes ther wil be a lot of swap materia tht some may find annoying but i liked it as materia is interesting to mess around with and anyway ther was a lot of swapping in the original - and the battle system once you get used to swapping charachers it comes to you naturally but i would def restart battles especially bosses so get used to ther moves etc plus try and kill em off without healing so much

 

[drunk_shinobi]

Mechanically, the game is pretty impressive and it does look great. That said, all the narrative changes were, well, stupid. I particularly dislike what *that* ending implies when it comes to future entries in the series.

 

[sarkwalvein]

Mechanically, the game is pretty impressive and it does look great. That said, all the narrative changes were, well, stupid. I particularly dislike what *that* ending implies when it comes to future entries in the series.

For some reason I felt the game was very limiting, like an interactive movie almost.

It's true the battle system is very good, but the pace was too often broken and you were slowly moving from place a to b a lot, and/or blahblah and cinematics, etc... I missed going out into the world a lot tbh.

 

[FGFlann]

That seems to be a problem endemic to Final Fantasy as of the last three entries in the series. The pretence of it being a role-playing series has been abandoned completely. With the already light role-playing elements of JRPGs stripped out it has become straight action game with a heavy focus on cinematics.