Doctor Who

Nathan Drake

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That "Doctor" is the one that fought in the Time War and the one that used the " Moment" to end the war. Been reading that Omega will be back for the 50th as well as the Time Lords.
I figured it was the initial Ninth Doctor a few days back, but something bothers me. As a side note, seeing as the Doctor despises that form of himself for revealing his name, I'm thinking that the Doctor's name is also essentially the key to the Time Lock. If ever uttered by the wrong person in the right place, I imagine it could unleash the Time War once more, and cause the use of the Ultimate Sanction to finally occur. What I wonder is this: the Moment was supposedly used by the Eighth Doctor. Assuming this is entirely canon, that would mean that the Doctor that fought all through the Time War would have been the Eighth Doctor. With that in mind, John Hurt could actually be the Eighth Doctor, heavily aged from a very long involvement in a war removed from time, regenerating after his use of the Moment to seal the Time Lock in order to seal away the man that did what the man known as the Doctor never could have done. The jacket of the Ninth being worn over the clothes of the Eighth is easily explained as the Doctor simply transitioning throughout the Time War, with the Ninth keeping the jacket potentially as a reminder of his great crime. A Time Lord can force a regeneration, which is seen in classic Who with Romana I and Romana II, as well as when the Doctor is punished on Gallifrey and forced to regenerate by the council as part of his punishment (which, if I remember, was the cause of him transitioning from the Second Doctor to the Third Doctor), meaning that the idea of a forced regeneration would be entirely canon. It would also finally give us an explanation as to how and why the Eighth Doctor turned into the Ninth. It seems to be a subject that we have missed greatly and that nothing that's considered canon has touched on.

Now, how about Clara not seeing that part of the Doctor's life? Easy. As the Time War is time-locked, so is that part of his life. No amount of gallivanting through the Doctor's time steam will ever allow a person to return to that war without it being reinstated back into the normal flow of time. That would mean that there's a part of his life that absolutely nobody in existence truly knows about besides himself, and it also happens to be the part of his life that he's most ashamed of as a man that took on the title of protector.

With that in mind, my idea for why the Doctor's name is the key is simple: why else would the Doctor have to try so desperately to never reveal it? Why is it so imperative that the wrong person never get their hands on his name? Why would it anger him so much that he ever used his name for any purpose? It must hold great power, of course, but it can't just be that. There must be something behind the name of the last Time Lord that requires special consideration to keep his name free of being common knowledge. Speaking his name under the correct circumstances must have the ability to bring about great disaster.

And thus, I feel the 50th Anniversary Special will give us closure on the Eighth Doctor once and for all. I think it's the best they could do with Christopher Eccleston not coming back to the show for the 50th. Regardless, if they go the route of the Eighth and with him regenerating at the conclusion of the Time War into the Ninth, well, it would simply work. He wouldn't have necessarily been born in battle, but he would have been born at the conclusion of the Doctor's darkest moment. It would give a nice explanation as to why the Ninth Doctor was seemingly much darker than the Tenth and Eleventh, and give some credence to the Doctor reverting to great darkness at certain moments (such as at the conclusion of his first meeting with Donna as the Tenth).
 
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Gabelvampir

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That "Doctor" is the one that fought in the Time War and the one that used the " Moment" to end the war. Been reading that Omega will be back for the 50th as well as the Time Lords.
I thought it was canon that the 8th Doctor fought the Time War? At least it was Russel T. Davies canon. I don't believe that Omega will be back, that is too obvious as he was only in anniversary stories before (10th anniversary story The Three Doctors and Arc of Infinity from the 20th anniversary season). But I really hope they bring back the Time Lords, as they were in the old series, not the cruel people changed by the war as seen in The End of Time.
Oh and I also think we won't see the Valeyard again, at least in any form similar to his previous incarnation. At least he won't be in the Anniversary special, I don't think they would have mentioned him in the finale if they wanted to use him. He works best as a surprise villain.
 

Gabelvampir

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Never actually confirmed. Even so, "fighting in" does not necessarily mean finishing.
That is true, although it was suggested in "Rose" that the Regeneration into the 9th Doctor was pretty recent, so it is very likely that the 8th doctor finished the Time War, or regenerated shortly before the end and the 9th did it then. Or the Regeneration could have been an effect of the Doctor finishing the Time War.
By the way, I know it was stated some time that the 1st Doctor really was the first, but is it really sure that 9, 10 and 11 are really the 9th, 10th and 11th incarnation? Maybe there is room somewhere for the John Hurt incarnation. Which would give a bit of a new meaning to the prophecy regarding the "Fall of the Eleventh".
 

ProtoKun7

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I know it was stated some time that the 1st Doctor really was the first, but is it really sure that 9, 10 and 11 are really the 9th, 10th and 11th incarnation? Maybe there is room somewhere for the John Hurt incarnation. Which would give a bit of a new meaning to the prophecy regarding the "Fall of the Eleventh".

Eleventh confirmed himself as Eleventh, and the "fall" was in a way, the TARDIS falling with him inside when the antigravs were switched off.
 

Gabelvampir

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Eleventh confirmed himself as Eleventh, and the "fall" was in a way, the TARDIS falling with him inside when the antigravs were switched off.
Ah ok, I had a feeling that his number was stated some time. I don't think it was the fall mentioned in the prophecy because of the "when no creature can speak falsely, or fail to answer" part. But perhaps we'll see in November.
 

Nathan Drake

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Never actually confirmed. Even so, "fighting in" does not necessarily mean finishing.
Check out "The Last Great Time War" and "Death" for the Eighth Doctor. He did return to Gallifrey, did participate in the Time War, and was present to some degree in the final process of ending it. What's never truly specified is how the Eighth Doctor's life ends, or whether or not he was the one that pulled the trigger that created the Time Lock. It's also never mentioned what happens directly after the Time War for the Doctor, and what lead to him becoming the Ninth. What we know about the birth of the Ninth is essentially that he was born in (from?) battle, which could relate to either him finally being the one to end the Time War, or being the one to come right after it, likely because of some level of disgust from the Doctor himself causing him to force a new regeneration if the response of the Eleventh upon seeing that form of him was any indication.

That place I gave you is fantastic, by the way. It has details from every canon piece of Doctor Who out there, filling in a lot of the blanks that the TV show has never had the chance to cover. Even watching all of the Doctor Who episodes to date, one would be hard pressed to be able to say they really know more than about 60% of all the relative Doctor Who information. What really surprises me is how much material is out there in text and comic form that is considered canon. Tons and tons of stuff.

Edit: Also, if you read about the Moment, it's acknowledged that the Eighth Doctor made it, and it's implied that he also was the one to use it. Even if that's taken as absolute fact though, that leaves quite a bit of a problem area about how the Doctor came to cope with that decision, and how he ended up regenerating.
 
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431unknown

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Everything you have stated above is just speculation. I feel if it wasn't in the show and put on screen it's not canon. The comics, books, and Big Finish stories to my knowledge have never been thought of as canon by any on the shows production teams.
 

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Everything you have stated above is just speculation. I feel if it wasn't in the show and put on screen it's not canon. The comics, books, and Big Finish stories to my knowledge have never been thought of as canon by any on the shows production teams.
Yeah that's what I think about most of the canon of TV shows and movies.
But Doctor Who has so many non-TV material (and the life of the 8th Doctor mostly is in non-TV material) that I find it a bit hard to ignore that. And many fans seem to pick and choose their own canon from the material available, so it is hard to define the official canon. But as with other shows, what is on the screen is definitely canon, except the retconned stuff and that "half-human on my mother's side" thing.
 

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I'm glad I am not the only dinosaur here I have been watching since Jon Pertwee. And I agree Tom Baker was my favourite too. I just could not watch Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy. But when Paul McGann appeared in the movie 7 years later I found myself wanting more! Then 9 years had past and "BOOM" he was back Bigger and better than ever thank you Russell T Davies.
 
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Gabelvampir

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I wish I would have been able to watch Doctor Who much earlier then I did, but it almost nothing of it was broadcasted in Germany (and still isn't, at least in free TV which is much more important here then in other countries). I only started watching everything from the new series in 2011, but I love it. I am working my way through the old series stories, but I am very far from having seen everything, or even any substantial chunk.
Oh and for Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy, I really like McCoy's Doctor, at least with Ace as companion. Haven't watch much Colin Backer stories as all scripts of his run seem to be sub-par at best. Only story I watched completely is The Two Doctors, and that wasn't very good, at least compared to the other Multi-Doctor stories.
 

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Eleventh confirmed himself as Eleventh, and the "fall" was in a way, the TARDIS falling with him inside when the antigravs were switched off.
But could he not have been confirming (either implicitly or explicitly, I don't remember exactly what he said) that he was the Eleventh Doctor? When Eleven talked to John Hurt , Hurt says that he acted "in the name of peace and sanity" to which Eleven responded "But not in the name of the Doctor!", implying that this incarnation was not "The Doctor". So I reckon it is definitely possible he fits between Eight and Nine.
 
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Nathan Drake

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Everything you have stated above is just speculation. I feel if it wasn't in the show and put on screen it's not canon. The comics, books, and Big Finish stories to my knowledge have never been thought of as canon by any on the shows production teams.
To be entirely fair Doctor Who pretty much is impossible to define using the traditional idea of canon, so that place I like to use only uses what's considered official (see below for what constitutes as official for anybody) when citing information in articles. There is far from a fine line between what could easily be considered part of the Doctor Who universe, and what's positively ridiculous but has still been published. The writers can't confirm or deny canon, as that would have to be up to all individual owners to determine it. Ownership is absolutely all over the place, so it would seem that, while we would expect someone to tell us what is truly canon, no one person or group of individuals actually can. Pretty much everybody who owns a piece of the Doctor Who universe would have to collectively come together, go through all the material, and make a decision, which I don't foresee ever happening.

A lot of what was made was officially given use of material by character creators and the BBC as a whole with a lot of it even being made by those that had or have had a hand directly in the show. The only negative side is that some of it is a touch conflicting with each other, but none of the official material seems to intentionally conflict with the established Doctor Who TV timeline. Funnily enough, it mentions one of the biggest problem spots is with the Eighth Doctor, likely because we got nothing but a TV movie about him before suddenly 2005 was here and the Ninth was introduced, so writers just took some liberties in introducing elements regarding his character and general adventures. I don't think show writers are ever going to worry about pre-war Eighth Doctor again though. That seems to just be an open field of fun for writers and comic creators alike.

What can be strongly inferred just from the TV series, ignoring every piece of non-show material: the Time War had to happen after the Seventh Doctor, and it had to conclude by the Ninth Doctor. This at least implies the involvement of the Eighth Doctor. Seeing the age they chose to represent the mystery Doctor (older), one could guess that it's either a war torn Eighth Doctor, or the original Ninth before the Doctor did something to himself post-Time War to modify his appearance. It would be a lot easier to explain it via the Eighth Doctor than it would be to try to explain it via the Ninth in terms of established information from the TV series (since, you know, the Ninth as we knew him had a slightly different clothing style, and a much younger appearance), but it can't be ignored that the Tenth Doctor mentioned the Ninth was born in battle. That is so open for interpretation though, it's hard to use that as conclusive information in determining what to think.

tl;dr: Canon is impossible with Doctor Who. Some stories could be considered canon as long as you pick and choose with care, and likely won't conflict if you choose to believe them as so. It would still make the most sense if John Hurt was the Eighth Doctor, though the possibility of him being the Ninth can't be entirely ignored.
 

Gabelvampir

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I don't believe that John Hurt is supposed to be the Eight Doctor, mostly because I don't think they would recast the role without a good reason. And Paul McGann stated he would return if asked.
I had the impression that he is supposed to be some other non-regular incarnation of the Doctor, maybe it has something to do with the ideas behind that old Cartmel Masterplan (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Cartmel_Masterplan). Maybe he is supposed to be different incarnation before the First Doctor (that does not count to the regeneration limit for some reason). Or a split or alternate universe version that was created by some event in the Last Great Time War.
But at this point this is all mere speculation, we just have to wait till November 23rd to find out the truth. Which feels like a long time right now.
 

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Time War Doctor. Whether that makes him the 8th only older or an alternate 9 or just a regeneration that the Doctor has chosen to repress I don't know. 11/23/13 holds the answer.
 

EzekielRage

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I always figured 8 fought in the Time War and regenerated into 9 during it and 9 ended the war.

Also, yes, matt smith leaves. So either John Hurt is the next doctor or they recast again. Truth be told, I hope Tennant returns, he is my favourite. Him appearing in the 50th anniversary special gives me hope ::)

Edit:
I read a lot about a female doctor. And while I would love that, I doubt it because AFAIk he can only regenerate into another male. Also it would be weird for the female fans. Sure, they'd have a good female lead but they already confirmed the female companion and that would probably not work out well.
I could also see a black doctor but once again I am not sure if that is even possible. It would be cool though^^
 

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Wow, I couldnt imagine the show before without David Tennant, now I REALLY can't imagine it without Matt Smith...

I just don't see how anyone is going to top those two, they were perfect
 

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