Democratic Debates

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I wanted to watch, but was too drunk both nights by the time they started.

Glad to hear Tulsi Gabbard did well and is now polling well despite media attacks.
I've never seen Gabbard poll higher than 3% (and that's an outlier), and there haven't been any polls from after the debate. It should also be noted that her history on LGBT issues will almost certainly keep her from getting anywhere close to the Democratic nomination.
 
My thoughts are that Biden needs to drop out before he starts an uncontrollable fire. Sanders is a close 2nd in that regard. I'm not on either side (left or right). The debate was lackluster.. And just seemed like a PR stunt of SNL skit.
 
@Glyptofane FROM the video i linked there's summary of major point of every candidates.

hey tempers, i heard they cutted Yang's mic to prevent him to talk, very democratic and fair indeed XDDD
 
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I've never seen Gabbard poll higher than 3% (and that's an outlier), and there haven't been any polls from after the debate. It should also be noted that her history on LGBT issues will almost certainly keep her from getting anywhere close to the Democratic nomination.
Yea, I just meant online polls and the search analytics for her during and after the debate. It's probably mostly fringe lunatics like when Ron Paul "won" all the debates yet never got anywhere close to the nomination.
 
Well I am a Republican but if your party wants any chance of beating Trump they better run Joe Biden. Warren is going to get crushed if you guys elect her as the democratic candidate. If you guys hadn't elected Hilary, Biden would have beat Trump in 2016.
His son died and he bowed out of the race. It's a pretty heartbreaking story. But it seems enough time has passed he can handle a presidential election.

Biden is the most conservative of those to choose from, so I can see why those on the right would think he'd have the best chance to win. Bernie will bring 3rd party people on board, same for Warren. I'd be fine if Biden was vice president again, though. It's hard to change things for the better when those in power don't understand or care what the problems needing fixing are.

@Glyptofane FROM the video i linked there's summary of major point of every candidates.

hey tempers, i heard they cutted Yang's mic to prevent him to talk, very democratic and fair indeed XDDD
I'd blame the tech guys before I assumed negligence. You know the ol' adage: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
 
Yea, I just meant online polls and the search analytics for her during and after the debate. It's probably mostly fringe lunatics like when Ron Paul "won" all the debates yet never got anywhere close to the nomination.
Conservative sections of Reddit, etc. also told everyone to vote for Gabbard in all of the online polls, so you are correct.

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My thoughts are that Biden needs to drop out before he starts an uncontrollable fire. Sanders is a close 2nd in that regard. I'm not on either side (left or right). The debate was lackluster.. And just seemed like a PR stunt of SNL skit.
The most recent RCP aggregate is as follows (for everyone above 1%):
  1. Biden: 32.0%
  2. Sanders: 16.9%
  3. Warren: 12.8%
  4. Harris: 7.0%
  5. Buttigieg: 6.6%
  6. O'Rourke: 3.3%
  7. Booker: 2.3%
  8. Yang: 1.3%
These numbers are all before the debates, so we're probably going to see some movement over the next few weeks, especially since Biden didn't do great.

Interestingly, if you ask Democratic voters to choose the candidate they could magically put into the White House, instead of considering who would be most likely to beat Trump, the numbers are more like this:
  1. Warren: 21%
  2. Biden and Sanders: tied with 19%
  3. Buttigieg: 16%
  4. Harris: 12%
  5. O'Rourke: 4%
 
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@osaka35 it's easy to ''blame'' tech guy for negligence, they are racing for 2020 and one of them maybe the next Chosen One, if this is the level of seriousness in USA, then i couldn't imaging how hopeless you people when facing other lesser issues.
 
It's fun when people start paying attention to the process for the first time. This is pretty normal, and happens on both sides. You've got your "buy my book", you've got your serious contenders, you've got your wanna-be-serious-contenders, and you've got your unhinged/joke people. Usually the joke people are ignored for the serious contenders, but as we found out in 2016, joke people can get elected if ignored for long enough and they lie well enough.

So it's fun to watch, but only really gets serious when it's paired down. This is mainly an opportunity to see what ideas are put out there, what ideas float to the top, and who articulates them best. These debates tend to help shape the discussions for the final contenders. So, in that regard, I'm hoping to hear more about the UBI, universal healthcare, student loans, pro-science topics (climate change, education, etc), and foreign policy. And other things.

@osaka35 it's easy to ''blame'' tech guy for negligence, they are racing for 2020 and one of them maybe the next Chosen One, if this is the level of seriousness in USA, then i couldn't imaging how hopeless you people when facing other lesser issues.
I mean, tech issues happen all the time. Especially when you're trying to mic up so many people and balance all that audio on the fly. I agree, it's pretty shoddy work, but it's a huge leap to extrapolate the attitude of the entire United States because some tech guys didn't do their job right XD.
 
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Because:
  1. Your point had nothing to do with the Electoral College.
  2. If your point had to do with the Electoral College, a county map is irrelevant.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Swing voters voted for Trump thus he won the election,not sure what is hard to understand here.
 
I have no idea what you are talking about.
Your point was that moderates voted heavily for Trump in 2016, but you posted a county map of the election results as evidence. County maps are misleading and don't do anything to show how moderates voted in a presidential election. A county map only shows us how rural areas take up most of the area, and that's it.

The Electoral College also has nothing to do with how counties vote. The Electoral College is about how states vote, and a county map can even misrepresent how a single state voted. Just look at New York state, for example. It looks almost entirely red from a county perspective, but most of the people are in urban areas, and the entire state actually went blue.

In summary, county maps are pointless, regardless of what we're talking about or trying to prove. The 2012 county map also looks quite red, but we both know that's misleading, given the results of the election.
 
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I have no idea what you are talking about. Swing voters voted for Trump thus he won the election,not sure what is hard to understand here.
You said moderate voters voted for Trump (and from what I have seen there were several, as opposed to the normally don't vote set turning out in force or something) and then posted the county level results map for the election, resulting in something of a sea of red (in this case indicating votes for Trump). One does not have the most to do with the other but fair enough. It should be noted that sometimes such a map is used to make out that more support is enjoyed than might actually be so some are wary of such things.

It was however then noted that the county map is just a projection of the land area. If you modified it for population rather than area (which given people are supposed to be represented in voting rather than areas, though there are modifiers for area which some take issue with but we will get back to that shortly) it shows a rather different picture, something of an even split and more in line with totals.
It was also noted as part of the post that the popular vote did not go Mr Trump's way, by some margin at that. While I would agree the rather oddly setup electoral college system is in play* and by virtue of its rules Mr Trump still won the final call then is it not worth considering in all this that it does also mean he does not enjoy a particularly high support among the population at large, said large also including a great many highly populated cities (said cities also being the economic powerhouses of the country, and large numbers of the presently working people). Similarly if we are now talking about the electoral college then a county map is still of limited use as the electoral college modified vote counts still go either majorities (so called winner take all) or are split along voter totals at state level.
You then said swing voters which is a broadly analogous term to moderate voters but can have some other meanings, and might be confused for swing states which is a slightly different matter again (there are some states which reliably return a given result election on election, but others that vary presumably by strength of the candidate in that area) or the voters in said states that achieved the necessary results for the final result to happen, and again makes the county map of dubious use.

*while I can appreciate the idea that is supposed to increase the potency of smaller states which might not have as much say if their population alone dictated things I am not entirely sure how it is achieving it in the modern world, and what heed might be given to them that would otherwise not be so, and the rules of it are rather variable between states too. Measuring what heed is given to states is not something I am entirely sure how to measure (visits/addresses during campaign is poor, concessions to is terribly hard to quantify but something at least worth noting), and if said small states are also not swing states then it gets even more fun.

Short version. You almost seem to be acting like the final result was job jobbed, done, all sorted when in fact there is something of a demonstrable majority that did not fall in line with his setup. To then write off the opposition as some kind of minor rabble rouser types does rather stand in stark contrast to the raw numbers, economic power of said same, likely future voters and more besides, something someone looking to play the game would likely have a vested interest in attempting to please at least a tiny bit. There are times when serious majorities have been won in more relevant metrics and opposition can be more readily ignored but I can't see it as being a sensible plan here. This also says nothing of the rather contentious choice in the eyes of some of his opposition; personally she seemed pretty run of the mill and otherwise unremarkable to me but among the US populace at large she seemed to have more a history so I will have to go look further into that one.
 
Moderates voted for Trump in 2016.
And? That ignores my larger point. We don't need moderates to win, we need to turn out our base like we did in 2018. Blue-collar states like Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania are important too, but Trump has failed those states miserably. Nearly all the Democrats are polling ahead of Trump by double digits in that region.
 
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And? That ignores my larger point. We don't need moderates to win, we need to turn out our base like we did in 2018. Blue-collar states like Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania are important too, but Trump has failed those states miserably. Nearly all the Democrats are polling ahead of Trump by double digits in that region.
As long as Biden isn't the front-runner, I see most 3rd party folks voting democrat as well.
 
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Biden consistently does the best in head-to-head polling against Trump.
Yeah, he's pretty centrist so tends to attract folks who don't want to rock the boat any. But he's not going to be the best at defusing the bombs currently in place in US politics. Plus, the 3rd party folks will probably see him as too similar to hillary. He wouldn't be the worst, but he certainly isn't the best progressive. But a quality centrist.
 
As long as Biden isn't the front-runner, I see most 3rd party folks voting democrat as well.
Yep. Bernie is an Independent, after all, and Warren would be just as good at getting Sanders supporters to show up to the polls. Castro, Harris, and Booker are all exciting in their own ways too, but I see one of them as more likely to end up in the VP slot.

Biden though is a piece of wet bread, he's not exciting to anybody and he's a ball of gaffes waiting to happen. All his support right now comes purely from name recognition, I just hope people realize sooner rather than later that he's a subpar campaigner at best. Just like Hillary was.
 
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I honestly think Pete Buttigieg did a great job!
 
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Yep. Bernie is an Independent, after all, and Warren would be just as good at getting Sanders supporters to show up to the polls. Castro, Harris, and Booker are all exciting in their own ways too, but I see one of them as more likely to end up in the VP slot.

Biden though is a piece of wet bread, he's not exciting to anybody and he's a ball of gaffes waiting to happen. All his support right now comes purely from name recognition, I just hope people realize sooner rather than later that he's a subpar campaigner at best. Just like Hillary was.
I'm hoping Pete Buttgieg comes in and rises to the top. But he's incredibly intelligent in his thinking and speech, which usually is a negative for...some voters ("but can you drink a beer with him?"). He's going to have to prove his value to the African American community though, or else his chances will just fall apart.
 
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I'm hoping Pete Buttgieg comes in and rises to the top. But he's incredibly intelligent in his thinking and speech, which usually is a negative for...some voters ("but can you drink a beer with him?"). He's going to have to prove his value to the African American community though, or else his chances will just fall apart.
I think he handled himself well last night and stood his ground.
 
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