Hacking Could a hack hold off the security Nintendo added with 5.0?

DiscostewSM

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If I understand correctly, 5.0 makes hacking a LOT harder because of some things like randomizing addresses and whatnot, and if you've already updated then you're SOL. But, say someone is on 4.1 or lower. Could a hack be made and installed, allowing the person to then update the firmware to 5.0 to nullify (or at least hibernate) the security added to that so they can keep using homebrew while at the same time make use of the new things a new firmware provides?

This is not taking into consideration the supposed new revision that's meant to patch up the bootroom and other things on the hardware level.
 

TheCyberQuake

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If I understand correctly, 5.0 makes hacking a LOT harder because of some things like randomizing addresses and whatnot, and if you've already updated then you're SOL. But, say someone is on 4.1 or lower. Could a hack be made and installed, allowing the person to then update the firmware to 5.0 to nullify (or at least hibernate) the security added to that so they can keep using homebrew while at the same time make use of the new things a new firmware provides?

This is not taking into consideration the supposed new revision that's meant to patch up the bootroom and other things on the hardware level.
Running a custom Secure Monitor (TZ) and using an emuNAND should make changes like these a non-issue due to the nature of how those work. At worst it would just require a few changes in atmosphere to work with it, but it wouldn't put a complete stop in cfw emuNAND working.
 
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SoslanVanWieren

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If I understand correctly, 5.0 makes hacking a LOT harder because of some things like randomizing addresses and whatnot, and if you've already updated then you're SOL. But, say someone is on 4.1 or lower. Could a hack be made and installed, allowing the person to then update the firmware to 5.0 to nullify (or at least hibernate) the security added to that so they can keep using homebrew while at the same time make use of the new things a new firmware provides?

This is not taking into consideration the supposed new revision that's meant to patch up the bootroom and other things on the hardware level.
theres a chance of the new revision not patching it since it looks like the revison could be a hardware upgrade with 8gb of ram.
 

Resaec

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It is written all over the thread that this 8gb version is most likely a dev unit.
It doesn't make any sense for Nintendo to hardfork the community into those stuck on old hardware at this point. They would get a backlash to be seen. 8gb is such a big change compared to what we have now (and how it happened to XBone and PS4)...

Why do you think 5.0 would break 4.1 HB? It should be clean of any hacks used to make it work... The only thing they have to keep in mind might be firmware updates to other chips like the cartridgereader (if something like this exists) which would require an update and a switch case in the code itself or am I missing something?
 
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TheCyberQuake

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It is written all over the thread that this 8gb version is most likely a dev unit.
It doesn't make any sense for Nintendo to hardfork the community into those stuck on old hardware at this point. They would get a backlash to be seen. 8gb is such a big change compared to what we have now (and how it happened to XBone and PS4)...

Why do you think 5.0 would break 4.1 HB? It should be clean of any hacks used to make it work... The only thing they have to keep in mind might be firmware updates to other chips like the cartrifgereader (if something like this exists) which would require an update and a switch case in the code itself or am I missing something?

Updates on carts are irrelevant with emuNAND. Updating emuNAND to latest firm gives the system the latest encryption keys. EmuNAND will basically function the same as though you updated your sysNAND. Once you update emuNAND you won't really have to worry about game encryption keys. That's the main reason SciresM is developing cfw and emuNAND. For access to pokemon on later firmwares while maintaining access to homebrew.
 

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On later thought the way I asked was not the best...
Now I realised that access to the emuNAND system would be affected by the update by changing locations either by changed binarys or aslr... But if the CFW is updated and the HB uses it's interfaces it should not break... As bad :unsure:
 

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I dont see any reason why would there be changed in the hardware. Hardware revisions, can be. Hardware upgrades? Nah. If this is in anyway true, poor old switch users for experiencing a "new 3ds" scenario only after a year into the life of the switch.

That ram upgrade would be a noticeable upgrade though and would be nice boost and all.
 

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Well my 3ds is in a really very low FW and I'm almost on the latest FW on the emunand...

I guess first we need to wait for a public hack + FW for all older than fw 5.0 version, then we will see...

We also don't have any info on the upcoming TeamXecuter chip and if it will bring a new FW chip inside and bypass the original, though most likely will be something to make the SOC to go crazy glitch it to be able to make it run code... No idea...

I hope is that they don't make it work by emulating\tricking\spoofing the system like if it had the latest FW just to run games, I hate that, I really hope we can always keep updating the FW like in the RGH Xbox and a emunand would be even more epic like 3DS...
 

TheCyberQuake

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Well my 3ds is in a really very low FW and I'm almost on the latest FW on the emunand...

I guess first we need to wait for a public hack + FW for all older than fw 5.0 version, then we will see...

We also don't have any info on the upcoming TeamXecuter chip and if it will bring a new FW chip inside and bypass the original, though most likely will be something to make the SOC to go crazy glitch it to be able to make it run code... No idea...

I hope is that they don't make it work by emulating\tricking\spoofing the system like if it had the latest FW just to run games, I hate that, I really hope we can always keep updating the FW like in the RGH Xbox and a emunand would be even more epic like 3DS...
Tf is a "FW chip"?
 
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guily6669

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No, I meant to say what if it brings its own nand bypassing the original and bringing their custom FW inside... Whatever it is no idea...

X360 had dual nand chips 4 example, though I never cared to use it online or have the original FW ever... XbLive Gold mehhh...

I also don't intend to play online with switch and pay another subscription, I just like being on latest FW for offline play only.

Even on 3DS I only played online one demo, even though I have resident evil I never tried the online.
 
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lolcatzuru

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If I understand correctly, 5.0 makes hacking a LOT harder because of some things like randomizing addresses and whatnot, and if you've already updated then you're SOL. But, say someone is on 4.1 or lower. Could a hack be made and installed, allowing the person to then update the firmware to 5.0 to nullify (or at least hibernate) the security added to that so they can keep using homebrew while at the same time make use of the new things a new firmware provides?

This is not taking into consideration the supposed new revision that's meant to patch up the bootroom and other things on the hardware level.


its absolutely exhausting not to flame someone in a topic like this. let me try to be as nice as possible. and answer them in a few primary points.

first and foremost, pretty much anything is possible when it comes to firmware, but is it actually accomplishable?

We have absolutely no idea. the way that its been talked about, getting hacks on 4.1 is already impressive.

Earlier someone brought up emuNAND, and thats an incredibly good point and is in theory feasible, but to answer the REAL question you have.

No, probably not. There's (probably) no way to fake a firmware to play online, spoofing is an option, but thats even less feasible.

Even Headers ( if those even exist anymore) aren't foolproof and in theory you could still be banned.


An option you may want to look into is XE's upcoming modchip that allegedly is firmware proof, that is ( probably) your only real option to keep up to date, but even then you aren't 100% able to play online safely.


Hope this helps
 
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Salazar-DE

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theres a chance of the new revision not patching it since it looks like the revison could be a hardware upgrade with 8gb of ram.
Are you literally retarded?

Nintendo isn't releasing a hardware revision to the Switch with identical specs and 8gb of RAM. That amount listed is for dev kits.

Common sense.
 

TheCyberQuake

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its absolutely exhausting not to flame someone in a topic like this. let me try to be as nice as possible. and answer them in a few primary points.

first and foremost, pretty much anything is possible when it comes to firmware, but is it actually accomplishable?

We have absolutely no idea. the way that its been talked about, getting hacks on 4.1 is already impressive.

Earlier someone brought up emuNAND, and thats an incredibly good point and is in theory feasible, but to answer the REAL question you have.

No, probably not. There's (probably) no way to fake a firmware to play online, spoofing is an option, but thats even less feasible.

Even Headers ( if those even exist anymore) aren't foolproof and in theory you could still be banned.


An option you may want to look into is XE's upcoming modchip that allegedly is firmware proof, that is ( probably) your only real option to keep up to date, but even then you aren't 100% able to play online safely.


Hope this helps

You mentioned emuNAND as a "theory" , and then went to say "fake a firmware", which leads me to believe you have no clue what you are talking about and have no experience with past systems running emuNAND. With TZ control and a custom Secure Monitor its fact that emuNAND is possible. It isn't a theory. It's not an "if it can happen", right now it's "when will it happen".
With the custom Secure Monitor you can redirect all NAND operations to SD. From there emuNAND would update and run as though it were an updated sysNAND. The only potential problem is what we saw on 3ds where the cfw would need to be updated occasionally to add support for additional things nintendo adds. With 5.0.0 they would likely need to add kaslr support or fix. Once you have full system access with TZ it isn't really possible to completely stop cfw. The only thing they can stop is people getting to cfw from an updated sysNAND. Those on lower firmware sysNAND are virtually unaffected in the long term.
 

lolcatzuru

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You mentioned emuNAND as a "theory" , and then went to say "fake a firmware", which leads me to believe you have no clue what you are talking about and have no experience with past systems running emuNAND. With TZ control and a custom Secure Monitor its fact that emuNAND is possible. It isn't a theory. It's not an "if it can happen", right now it's "when will it happen".
With the custom Secure Monitor you can redirect all NAND operations to SD. From there emuNAND would update and run as though it were an updated sysNAND. The only potential problem is what we saw on 3ds where the cfw would need to be updated occasionally to add support for additional things nintendo adds. With 5.0.0 they would likely need to add kaslr support or fix. Once you have full system access with TZ it isn't really possible to completely stop cfw. The only thing they can stop is people getting to cfw from an updated sysNAND. Those on lower firmware sysNAND are virtually unaffected in the long term.


this keyboard warrior.
 

TheCyberQuake

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but you sure told me, that i didnt know what i was talking about, you are a big toughy.
If I stated the reasons why you seem to not know what you were talking about then it's a pretty much a correct statement. I'm not acting tough, I'm stopping people who don't actively follow these threads from spreading false information because they simply don't know. It's not my fault you attempt to talk about things you haven't looked into enough. I would suggest reading through the threads more before trying to talk about the switch and its hacks. There's a lot of info you'll want to pick up before trying to make statements as if they are facts (or at least backed somewhat by current community, dev, and exploit progress).
 

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